Parrish or Freehan

[tycobb420]

Growing up, this was a popular debate.

 

[Rebbiv]

Freehan 15 Seasons 11x All Stars 5x Gold Gloves

Parrish 10 Seasons 6x All Stars 3x Gold Gloves

Offensively, they were about equal compared with their relative eras. Defensively, I would have to give the edge to Freehan.

 

[kalinesboy]

Freehan had to handle fantastic pitchers when pitching was everything. Lance could not handle Morris the Cat....no one could! So i give Bill his props even while I loved Lance. Both were intimidating if a fight broke out.....but Freehan got the throw from Horton that broke Little Miss McCarver's heart, and the Lil Miss is still ticked off about it. What about Mickey Cochrane though? I put him second in front of Lance with Bill first.

 

[tycobb420]

I did not expect 7-1!

 

[kalinesboy]

Hey Ty:
7-1 was what Tigers were in 84 playoffs. Just sayin, and same ratio as 35-5 start.

 

[thehippo73]

I had to take Lance. The smart choice would be Freeman but Lance was my favorite player growing up along with Morris.

 

[turok]

Sorry Lance, but your leaving the team to go to Philly via FA made you fall a bit out of favor with me, although you much later, post-playing days admitted that you made a big mistake by doing so. Freehan shares my B-day and was one of my childhood Tigers heroes, so thus he gets the nod over Parrish.

 

[tycobb420]

I voted for Freehan. IMO, if Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski are in the HOF, he belongs in. On another note, Parrish's numbers aren't that much different than Gary Carter's (get well Gary!)

 

[motownwebguy]

Ya' gotta' look at achievements / milestones besides comparing normal game stats. Achievements (or lack there-of) are why some Tiger greats like Trammell haven't made it yet.

That's why they call it Hall Of Fame, instead of Hall Of Highest Game Stats.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Ya' gotta' look at achievements / milestones besides comparing normal game stats. Achievements (or lack there-of) are why some Tiger greats like Trammell haven't made it yet.

That's why they call it Hall Of Fame, instead of Hall Of Highest Game Stats.

You mean like all star appearences which is a popularity vote. Or GG because once you win one of those its hard for you not to win it or maybe a blackflip. Trammell was a better player than Ozzie, plain and simple.

Plus, with Ripken it was hard getting more of either. He was the chosen one. There is no reason why one gets 93% why the other gets 5. It was all about the back flip.

 

[tycobb420]

RE: Parrish. He and Carter have very similar stats. The big differences are Carter played in NY. He also had the two big homers in the '86 WS and hit the big ASG HR in 1981.

RE: Freehan. He holds the record for most ASG appearances without being in the HOF. There are lesser catchers in the HOF right now and he is considered the best catcher of his era. Also, if Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski are in b.c of their defense, then the argument can be made for Freehan as well.

RE: Trammell. He was overshadowed by Ripken and Yount. Also, Ozzie couldn't hit for years, but he was a great defender and did backflips. The main argument for Ozzie was his defense. Trammell's numbers matchup well against other HOF shortstops. He also won the World Series MVP and should have won the 1987 AL MVP.

 

[tycobb420]

It is interesting how time changes things. In 1986 or 87, this would have been closer. However, Parrish left. Had he stayed, he probably does not continue at the same pace as prior to his back issues. But, we would have looked at him through the prism of his peak years making him a match for Freehan. Perhaps if we talk peak years, than Parrish wins. But, for the entire career, Freehan wins hands down and the board vote reflects this.

 

[thehippo73]

I voted for Freehan. IMO, if Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski are in the HOF, he belongs in. On another note, Parrish's numbers aren't that much different than Gary Carter's (get well Gary!)

The biggest difference is that Carter played in New York and Lance played in Detroit.

 

[tycobb420]

I voted for Freehan. IMO, if Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski are in the HOF, he belongs in. On another note, Parrish's numbers aren't that much different than Gary Carter's (get well Gary!)

The biggest difference is that Carter played in New York and Lance played in Detroit.

Carter also set up press kits for HOF voters!

 

[stonecold2136]

Sorry Lance, but your leaving the team to go to Philly via FA made you fall a bit out of favor with me, although you much later, post-playing days admitted that you made a big mistake by doing so. Freehan shares my B-day and was one of my childhood Tigers heroes, so thus he gets the nod over Parrish.

I feel the same way.

 

[Rebbiv]

Keys to make here. Freehan played in the 60's, a decade of the pitcher. Also, Freehan primarily hit 6th or 7th in the Tigers' offense. Carter and Parrish were cleanup hitters.

Now, stats for each from ages 25-29 (peak years?):

Carter 2857 PA 93.14 RC/650 .274 BAVG .342 OBP .476 SLG .818 OPS 113 HR 420 RBI 672 GS as C

Freehan 2885 PA 93.05 RC/650 .266 BAVG .365 OBP .449 SLG .814 OPS 106 HR 330 RBI 631 GS as C

Parrish 2805 PA 83.84 RC/650 .262 BAVG .314 OBP .470 SLG .784 OPS 130 HR 443 RBI 581 GS as C

Seasons with at least 130 games starter as catcher (career):

Carter 9
Freehan 4
Parrish 1

Here is where the difference lies. Starting over 130 games as catcher in a season can wear them down. Carter performed well despite this.

 

[tycobb420]

Both played 19 seasons, hit 324 home runs, and won three gold gloves. Carter played a little over 300 more games than Parrish and hit .262, which was ten points higher than his contemporary. Carter slugged .439 while Parrish was at .440. Additionally, Parrish won 6 silver slugger awards to Carter's 5. The numbers are more glaring when looking at 162 game averages for both. Lance Parrish averaged 26 home runs, 87 RBI, and a .753 OPS a season. Carter averaged 23 home runs, 86 RBI, and a .773 OPS.

 

[tycobb420]

Why is Carter in the Hall of Fame, but not Parrish? The answer might be exposure. First, Carter played in New York, which is the world's media capitol. However, that alone did not guarantee his enshrinement. Carter was a "prime time" player that rose to the big moment. When baseball returned from the 1981 strike, Carter launched two homers in the All Star Game and won the MVP. He won the award again in 1984 with a game-winning shot. When he joined the Mets in 1985, he hit a walk off home run on opening day. During the 1986 World Series, Carter led the Mets in Game 4 with two key home runs enabling New York to tie the series. Parrish enjoyed big hits, but they were not on the same level as Carter's or were overshadowed. As a result, Parrish earned less than 2% of the Hall of Fame vote on his first ballot. Carter received 42% before being elected on the sixth ballot.

 

[tycobb420]

Freehan leads 14-5

 

[Mitchrapp]

If it wasn't Mclains 31 win season, Freehan would have an MVP. He finished 2nd that year.