Paterno Fired

[bamf16]

There is no precedent being set tonight.


Situations like these necessitate certain responses and this has happened many times. I wouldn't simplify this story -- just from what I've read -- to be about "being told something by someone that might have happened."

We're way beyond that now in this situation and if anything, the Board is following precedent set decades ago from similar scandalous scenarios.

Sorry dude.....Everything sets a precedent.

And correct me again if I'm wrong......

If I call the police and tell them that someone told me they witnessed a crime, my statements are inadmissable as hearsay.

When Sandusky goes to trial, Paterno is not allowed to take the stand to testify what he heard from McQueary, because it's hearsay.

And how is it that right now, Mike McQueary is still technically an employee at PSU? Tim Curly is technically an employee at PSU? (both are on leave). And Paterno is not? This is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Mitchrapp]

There is no precedent being set tonight.


Situations like these necessitate certain responses and this has happened many times. I wouldn't simplify this story -- just from what I've read -- to be about "being told something by someone that might have happened."

We're way beyond that now in this situation and if anything, the Board is following precedent set decades ago from similar scandalous scenarios.

Sorry dude.....Everything sets a precedent.

And correct me again if I'm wrong......

If I call the police and tell them that someone told me they witnessed a crime, my statements are inadmissable as heresay.

When Sandusky goes to trial, Paterno is not allowed to take the stand to testify what he heard from McQueary, because it's heresay.

And how is it that right now, Mike McQueary is still technically an employee at PSU? Tim Curly is technically an employee at PSU? (both are on leave). And Paterno is not? This is beyond ridiculous.

Dude, he morally fk'd up. I'm not sure what's going on with those other ass holes but they will get theirs. But Paterno needed to be let go.

 

[TheVictors]

I know you're a football coach and I have always like PSU and "JoePa" but this has nothing to do with football.

Paterno was so much more than an employee ...where was the leadership?! His being dismissed in his capacity as being "in charge of everything" is SOP for these horrific situatuons.

I commend the Board for doing what's right ...and for making a tough decision in the face of fans, students and CFB fans everywhere angry and upset about it.

This goes way beyond football and NCAA.

 

[Thumb]

Mitch[/color]]

Sorry dude.....Everything sets a precedent.

And correct me again if I'm wrong......

If I call the police and tell them that someone told me they witnessed a crime, my statements are inadmissable as heresay.

When Sandusky goes to trial, Paterno is not allowed to take the stand to testify what he heard from McQueary, because it's heresay.

And how is it that right now, Mike McQueary is still technically an employee at PSU? Tim Curly is technically an employee at PSU? (both are on leave). And Paterno is not? This is beyond ridiculous.

Dude, he morally fk'd up. I'm not sure what's going on with those other ass holes but they will get theirs. But Paterno needed to be let go.

Exactly.

Forget his accomplishments, forget what he means to the school, forget everything except what matters, when he found out about the accusations, he did NOTHING.

Paterno was the head of everything football related, and this happened under his watch, and he brushed it aside hoping someone else would be the bad guy and he could retire in honor.

Sorry Joe, doesn't work that way.

 

[boredindc]

There is no precedent being set tonight.


Situations like these necessitate certain responses and this has happened many times. I wouldn't simplify this story -- just from what I've read -- to be about "being told something by someone that might have happened."

We're way beyond that now in this situation and if anything, the Board is following precedent set decades ago from similar scandalous scenarios.

Sorry dude.....Everything sets a precedent.

And correct me again if I'm wrong......

If I call the police and tell them that someone told me they witnessed a crime, my statements are inadmissable as heresay.

When Sandusky goes to trial, Paterno is not allowed to take the stand to testify what he heard from McQueary, because it's heresay.

And how is it that right now, Mike McQueary is still technically an employee at PSU? Tim Curly is technically an employee at PSU? (both are on leave). And Paterno is not? This is beyond ridiculous.

you've got a lot to learn about hearsay

 

[bamf16]

So if Curly and/or Schultz abide by their legal obligation to file a report within 48 hours to University and/or State Police back in 2001 or 2002, the investigation happens, is likely over now, and JoePa coaches against Nebraska this Saturday.

Unless some report comes out from the PSU board indicating that JoePa coerced members of the coaching staff and/or university employees to ignore this and not file a report (which if by the way does happen, I'll redact every post I've made criticizing the firing) then what I'm seeing is that if the two people above JoePa did their jobs, he'd still have his.

I'm having a hard time accepting the precedent that someone can meet their moral and legal obligations, their superiors don't, and they can get fired for it.

 

[bamf16]

Sorry dude.....Everything sets a precedent.

And correct me again if I'm wrong......

If I call the police and tell them that someone told me they witnessed a crime, my statements are inadmissable as heresay.

When Sandusky goes to trial, Paterno is not allowed to take the stand to testify what he heard from McQueary, because it's heresay.

And how is it that right now, Mike McQueary is still technically an employee at PSU? Tim Curly is technically an employee at PSU? (both are on leave). And Paterno is not? This is beyond ridiculous.

you've got a lot to learn about hearsay

Then educate me.

 

[boredindc]

you've got a lot to learn about hearsay

Then educate me.

well without getting too detailed, its not really hearsay if you get called into court and testify, one of the main reasons for disallowing hearsay is that the declarant can't be cross-examined, but if you're in the courtroom you can be cross-examined and everyone can decide your truthfulness for themselves; also, there are a million exceptions to hearsay which makes it much easier to get those statements into evidence; and your statements don't really need to be used at all, your phone call to the police can be what starts the police's investigation and their development of probable cause, once they gather enough other information they go get a warrant to arrest and bam

 

[michlady77]

and franly in certain jobs you can be fired - there isn't necessarily due process in all employment relationsihps

 

[Michchamp]

hearsay is inadmissable at trial. He hasn't gone to trial yet, and it's reasonable and sometimes all they may have to go on at the start of a criminal investigation.

the police obviously shouldn't investigate every rumor that is reported to them, but they weigh the credibility of the report, and follow up. in theory they discover evidence that CAN be admitted at court to convict.

In this case... coming from a university administrator, it should be.

 

[blueandmazefla]

I don't consider 8 children and several eye witnesses, not just one, hear say. You know Joe knew all of this. All Joe had to do was bring this to the fore front years ago and the investigation would have been such it would not have been allowed to happen again plain and simple. Parents would not have their children near him all would be aware. Also as stated earlier what if this was Joe grandkid? Do you think he would have done more? There is no defending his actions in my opinion, and of course its my opinion.

 

[TheVictors]

So if Curly and/or Schultz abide by their legal obligation to file a report within 48 hours to University and/or State Police back in 2001 or 2002, the investigation happens, is likely over now, and JoePa coaches against Nebraska this Saturday.

Unless some report comes out from the PSU board indicating that JoePa coerced members of the coaching staff and/or university employees to ignore this and not file a report (which if by the way does happen, I'll redact every post I've made criticizing the firing) then what I'm seeing is that if the two people above JoePa did their jobs, he'd still have his.

I'm having a hard time accepting the precedent that someone can meet their moral and legal obligations, their superiors don't, and they can get fired for it.

This isn't a court of law, it is a publicly-funded entity firing an employee.

Besides all that, had Paterno - based on Grand Jury testimony - simply confronted Sandusky way back then, this could have all been avoided ...at least in terms of Paterno's legacy and this specific scenario.

I have a very strong feeling there is more to it than we know and given his testimony, Paterno would have to know this day was coming at some time.

 

[Michchamp]

So if Curly and/or Schultz abide by their legal obligation to file a report within 48 hours to University and/or State Police back in 2001 or 2002, the investigation happens, is likely over now, and JoePa coaches against Nebraska this Saturday.

Unless some report comes out from the PSU board indicating that JoePa coerced members of the coaching staff and/or university employees to ignore this and not file a report (which if by the way does happen, I'll redact every post I've made criticizing the firing) then what I'm seeing is that if the two people above JoePa did their jobs, he'd still have his.

I'm having a hard time accepting the precedent that someone can meet their moral and legal obligations, their superiors don't, and they can get fired for it.

This isn't a court of law, it is a publicly-funded entity firing an employee.

Besides all that, had Paterno - based on Grand Jury testimony - simply confronted Sandusky way back then, this could have all been avoided ...at least in terms of Paterno's legacy and this specific scenario.

I have a very strong feeling there is more to it than we know and given his testimony, Paterno would have to know this day was coming at some time.

yeah, I'm curious about the timing too.

Wonder if the DA, or an assistant DA, local PI, or some of the cops have been pushing this all along? I mean various people have been sitting on evidence for years, and all the sudden this blows up.

 

[blueandmazefla]

and as the ever well spken Mich Lady eluded to all employers can terminate for conduct that unbecoming of an employee. In my mind this conduct certainly falls in line with that. It is not a question of criminal charges of guilt for Joe it is moral, the one thing Joe agressively south out. In his own admission he did not do enough, he wishes he did more and he is right sorry to say.

 

[Michchamp]

So if Curly and/or Schultz abide by their legal obligation to file a report within 48 hours to University and/or State Police back in 2001 or 2002, the investigation happens, is likely over now, and JoePa coaches against Nebraska this Saturday.

Unless some report comes out from the PSU board indicating that JoePa coerced members of the coaching staff and/or university employees to ignore this and not file a report (which if by the way does happen, I'll redact every post I've made criticizing the firing) then what I'm seeing is that if the two people above JoePa did their jobs, he'd still have his.

I'm having a hard time accepting the precedent that someone can meet their moral and legal obligations, their superiors don't, and they can get fired for it.

that's the thing: Paterno may have done LEGALLY what he had to do at the time, report to Curly/Schultz, but he probably knew about this back in 98/99 when Sandusky was first investigated, and shortly thereafter retired. Hence the moral concerns, and the fact that he was a party to - or at least had knowledge of - burying this issue for around a decade, during which time the abuse continued.

 

[bamf16]

McQueary would be the declarant and given his availability to testify at trial paterno's testimony likely wouldn't get past one of the what 25 or so exceptions. He got fired for being the most visible member of a program in turmoil.

 

[Mitchrapp]

McQueary would be the declarant and given his availability to testify at trial paterno's testimony likely wouldn't get past one of the what 25 or so exceptions. He got fired for being the most visible member of a program in turmoil.

He got fired for being a scumbag.

 

[TheVictors]

McQueary would be the declarant and given his availability to testify at trial paterno's testimony likely wouldn't get past one of the what 25 or so exceptions. He got fired for being the most visible member of a program in turmoil.

As has been the case in many prior situations involving sports teams and otherwise.

 

[Michchamp]

McQueary would be the declarant and given his availability to testify at trial paterno's testimony likely wouldn't get past one of the what 25 or so exceptions. He got fired for being the most visible member of a program in turmoil.

the evidence here is unrelated to the firing.

Paterno was fired to preserve whatever dignity the school and program still had remaining.

He may not have had any duty at law beyond informing Curly and Schultz at the time, but there's no way any self respecting program could say "Our head coach knew one of his former assistants was a child molester for over a decade, and knew that nothing further was done about it."

there's no precedent here; it wasn't a legal decision to fire him, it was a straight PR (and human decency) decision.

and dude, if you read the transcript, while there's no direct evidence linking Paterno to the 98-99 episode, you have to wonder if he knew at the time. Sandusky was considered a possible successor to him, and all of the sudden retires from coaching completely, and Paterno has no reason why? that's unlikely.

 

[Mitchrapp]

This thing pisses me off. Students are honoring this creep and not realizing or forgetting children were scarred for life in this whole fuckin' thing.