Porcello trade scenarios?

[Mitchrapp]

If you are measuring their first 3 seasons (both at age 23. , then Stanton is clearly better based on defense.

I might not value defense like you do but IMO, you cannot compare an OF to a 3B. And I get tired of hearing "well this guy is more valuable because he plays CF and this guy plays 1B." I bet that CF cannot play 1B effectively..

In the end I don't see them the same hitters. I see Stanton as more a power guy but not hitting near .320. And getting OB as much.

 

[pr0tege]

Yeah but look out there right now with the market. Can you honestly imagine what Texas would line up IF Stanton was on the market right now? It could trump honestly ANYTHING we could offer Miami.

 

[Rebbiv]

I might not value defense like you do but IMO, you cannot compare an OF to a 3B. And I get tired of hearing "well this guy is more valuable because he plays CF and this guy plays 1B." I bet that CF cannot play 1B effectively..

In the end I don't see them the same hitters. I see Stanton as more a power guy but not hitting near .320. And getting OB as much.

Bascially, you are saying a DH-type player is more valuable than a player who is in the top 5 defensively?

First 3 years Away (age 22)

Stanton 115.10 RC/650 .275 BAVG .340 OBP .584 SLG .924 OPS 14.11 PA/HR

Cabrera 113..40 RC/650 .307 BAVG .369 OBP .549 SLG .918 OPS 19.43 PA/HR


And yes, the difference between Cabrera and Stanton, is that Cabrera hits for a higher average and Stanton has way more power (as much as 13 more HRs per 650 PAs).

 

[Mitchrapp]

Bascially, you are saying a DH-type player is more valuable than a player who is in the top 5 defensively?

First 3 years Away (age 22)

Stanton 115.10 RC/650 .275 BAVG .340 OBP .584 SLG .924 OPS 14.11 PA/.

Cabrera 113..40 RC/650 .307 BAVG .36can't P .549 SLG .918 OPS 19.43 PA/HR


And yes, the difference between Cabrera and Stanton, is that Cabrera hits for a higher average and Stanton has way more power (as much as 13 more HRs per 650 PAs).

What I'm saying is you can't compare an OF to a 1B/3B. I'm not sure how DH got in there. I get it, SS means more than 2B which means more than LF which means more than 1B etc. But have Stanton play 1B or 3B and see how he does. Comparing positions is just dumb, you cant do it. Its not fantasy baseball where a CF can play 1B and a SS can play left.

 

[mhughes0021]

Angels could use a sp....trumbo?

 

[jared]

Porcello straight up for Hanrahan in Pittsburgh?

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Texas needs SP help and has some holes in the outfield. Any chance we could get Andrus for a package centering around Porcello and Garcia? Profar needs to play, we go from the SS with the least range to the SS with the most. Porcello actually could have a lot better numbers with a good defense at his back.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Porcello straight up for Hanrahan in Pittsburgh?

I'd be in on that. Though he'll be getting a raise and FA next season unless signed long term. And lots of money. Might just go with Rondo. I'd actually like to get an OF for Rick.

 

[pr0tege]

Yeah Hanrahan is set to make 7+ million in 2013 and become a FA in 2014. I would much rather prefer not have to trade away Porcello for someone whom we have control for 1 season.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Rick has youth on his side plus other teams see him as a GB pitcher that was on a bad defensive team. So he has value, more than I might have thought a year ago.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Texas needs SP help and has some holes in the outfield. Any chance we could get Andrus for a package centering around Porcello and Garcia? Profar needs to play, we go from the SS with the least range to the SS with the most. Porcello actually could have a lot better numbers with a good defense at his back.

That would be solid. I just wonder if they'd deal with us.

 

[Rebbiv]

What I'm saying is you can't compare an OF to a 1B/3B. I'm not sure how DH got in there. I get it, SS means more than 2B which means more than LF which means more than 1B etc. But have Stanton play 1B or 3B and see how he does. Comparing positions is just dumb, you cant do it. Its not fantasy baseball where a CF can play 1B and a SS can play left.

The only difference between the two...is Stanton is top 5 at his current position defensively and Cabrera is at the bottom for 3B.

If it wasn't for the Fielder signing, Cabrera would have stayed at 1B.

I mentioned DH, because ultimately, Cabrera's only value is in his hitting. He has more value playing 1B, then he does 3B.

And for the record, of Cabrera's first 400 Games Started (first 3 seasons)

241 GS LF
100 GS RF
58 GS 3B
1 GS DH

So, Miggy started primarily as a corner OFer.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Yeah I know but value as in trade is based on what Stanton makes. That's why he's more valuable than what Miggy was at the time. I know that. And because Maybin and Miller were failures. But at the time, they were high rated prospects so I can't imagine Stanton getting more..knowing that Miggy was traded for 2 high prospects and the fact the Marlins were able to get rid of Willis.

I think I just contradicted myself but oh well.

 

[mjsb2]

I'm not disagreeing with you... I'm saying that I view Stanton as a slightly lesser player than Miggy was back then (feel free to disagree), and that may help offset some of the age and money advantages he's have over Miggy back then. Also, you can rank Porcello and Castellanos any way you want, but I doubt anybody would argue that they aren't better than Maybin and Miller. That's the changge in prospect rankings part I was talking about.

Porcello/Castellanos now don't have significant more trade value than Maybin/Miller did then.

Certainly not enough to overcome the significant trade value advantage Stanton has now compared to Cabreras after 07.

 

[mjsb2]

Yeah I know but value as in trade is based on what Stanton makes. That's why he's more valuable than what Miggy was at the time. I know that. And because Maybin and Miller were failures. But at the time, they were high rated prospects so I can't imagine Stanton getting more..knowing that Miggy was traded for 2 high prospects and the fact the Marlins were able to get rid of Willis.

I think I just contradicted myself but oh well.

The Marlins dumping Willis really had no benefit to the Marlins.

If they didn't want to keep him they simply could have non-tendered him.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

That would be solid. I just wonder if they'd deal with us.

I'm not sure why they wouldn't, but I'm probably not as plugged in as others here. I just think it could be another Jackson-type deal where every team wins. Andrus is a significant upgrade on Peralta, and young enough to keep around a while. Porcello honestly could be a good #3 in Texas, where they have strong infield defense. And Garcia showed in the playoffs he can play at the plate at the very least.

Maybe we would need to add more, but probably not Castellanos. If it was necessary, we could even pull in a third team by giving up Peralta and having the return go to Texas.

 

[mjsb2]

Andrus would net more in a trade than what the Tigers could match.

Porcello isn't close to getting Andrus, and Garcia really doesn't have all that much trade value. I have no idea why he keeps getting tossed around as if he's some big trade piece.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Porcello/Castellanos now don't have significant more trade value than Maybin/Miller did then.

Certainly not enough to overcome the significant trade value advantage Stanton has now compared to Cabreras after 07.

Porcello only has less trade value because of his salary (which is pretty much what you are saying, so again, we aren't in disagreement here). He's probably got a higher success factor and ability than any prospect to actually continue to be a solid MLB player. The age is a push for most since Rick came up so young. Teams need to decide if they want to trade for young talent they can control or gamble on prospects. Both have significant value depending on team needs. It's why we went out and traded for Sanchez and will deal away Porcello. We're looking to win now, not later.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Andrus would net more in a trade than what the Tigers could match.

Porcello isn't close to getting Andrus, and Garcia really doesn't have all that much trade value. I have no idea why he keeps getting tossed around as if he's some big trade piece.

Garcia is not bad; he hit well for us in limited action, and there's reason to think he can improve with more experience. Young guys who can hit always have some value. Porcello as well isn't a terrible pitcher. He's young, has significant MLB and big game experience, and has always played in front of a poor defense. I'm not saying that package is incredible, but it is a decent start to any deal. Young MLBer with upside, young prospect with upside. We could, at the same time, trade Peralta for more pieces to add.

 

[mjsb2]

Garcia is not bad; he hit well for us in limited action, and there's reason to think he can improve with more experience. Young guys who can hit always have some value. Porcello as well isn't a terrible pitcher. He's young, has significant MLB and big game experience, and has always played in front of a poor defense. I'm not saying that package is incredible, but it is a decent start to any deal. Young MLBer with upside, young prospect with upside. We could, at the same time, trade Peralta for more pieces to add.

I understand Garcia has upside, but he did not really perform that well in the majors, he didn't have a single XBH. I was impressed with his plate discipline, as it was better than I was expecting, but he still rarely walked.

He's got some value, but he will never be one of the main pieces in any trade that nets you a good young player, he's a player you add on to supplement the main pieces.