Reality: the developed talent is not what OSU has, is not there

[hungry]

Yes, I know. It is too soon to actually talk football, but I'm going to try.

I keep reading article after article that says that Michigan is just as talented as any team in the country or just as talented as OSU. I do not think that is true, at all.

Yes, the coaching should definitely be called into question and I'm not making any excuse. Saying that the other team is more talented and has better developed talent is not an excuse. It is reality, a real reason that one team loses to another.

Michigan's QB is not nearly as good as OSU's QB. We all hoped that that Shea might've been on the same level as Haskins, but it is clear that he is not, but obviously, it isn't all on Shea.

Michigan's WR corp, while talented at the top, is clearly not as developed nor as deep as OSU's. DPJ is a true sophomore. Nico Collins is a 2nd year player. Nico was crap last year. DPJ showed some signs last year and has really improved this year. Tarik Black has played in about 5 games and is a 2nd year player who has had two severe injuries in his legs. Who else does Michigan have here? Grant Perry is not good. Oliver Martin seems to not be living up his recruiting level, although he is only another 2nd year player. This is why Harbaugh is running out mf'ing Ronnie Bell and Jacob McCurry. Do you think that OSU is running out a walk-on and a guy that wasn't even a 2 star recruit? Nope, they have multi-year 5 stars our there. Olave isn't an upper classman, but he was out there burning Watson, an unremarkable DB.

Michigan's DB's: Hall and Long seem to be very good. That is it. Hall went out with an injury. Kinnell, Metellus, Watson, and everyone else is mediocre at best. Michigan doesn't have the DB's to hang with OSU's WR corp. I'm not looking at the reasons why they don't, just that they don't.

Michigan's OL: While they improved this unit a lot compared to last season, it still has a long way to go to be considered to be a strength and they got pushed around again yesterday against OSU. OSU's d-line is still a lot better than Michigan's O-line and it showed...again

Michigan's RB's: Higdon is OK. Talk of going pro last year is a joke. Yes, he got 1,000 yards and that is a good accomplishment. He doesn't have a lot of speed and can hardly cut. Evans has been hurt much of the year and has no power. Tru Wilson is a walk-on. Dobbins is a lot better than anyone Michigan runs out there. RB continues to be a severe liability on this team. The ones that play for Michigan try really hard, but they just are not elite talent. It's been a while since Michigan has had a really good talent in the backfield. Harbaugh's weird rotation of backs pissed me off all year. Higdon would make a really good run and he'd be immediately sent to the sideline, but let's face it, no one back there is that great.

Michigan needs better talent and they need to develop that talent.

All of that being said, the team improved a lot compared to last year or the other teams on the schedule just got a lot worse. Michigan was predicted to finish about 8-4 and 4th in the east ( i thought that was a joke, but that was the prediction.) Sucks losing to OSU in the fashion that they did or in any fashion really. Would we feel better if Michigan lost 28-24? I doubt it.

 

[biggunsbob]

I agree with everything you said except one. How did just about every other team Ohio st play have zero issues getting to Haskins, and or gashing the Osu defense ? It makes zero sense to me. One team plays its best game by far, and the other team craps the bed like always in this game I guess. My only worry in this blowout H is in recuriting . How many will bail because of that score ? In a closer loss they may have felt I could be a difference maker . Just not sure.

Harbaugh has to update his thinking or we are never going to win a East Divison or Big Ten title under him. His team is slow and the offense is outdated.


Hamilton- decent playcaller of sorts. But way to predictable. Moslty awful inside the opponents 30. My friend said he thinks Hamilton’s passing attack is old and out dated. I kind of agree. Have to think on it.

Brown- Yesterday proved I was correct. His defensive pad stats verses bad teams with underperforming qb’s and or hurt qb’s. They fade every single season. Also after the Indiana game how brown didn’t come up with a way to combat the crossing patterns shocked me yesterday. I thought if there was on thing to work on that was it.
Hey maybe learn how to teach zone Me Brown !!


Qb
I am so fucking tired of grad transfers. Roll the dice with you guys you recurited and develop them. Both Milton and McCaffery I think have stronger arms then Patterson. I bet we would have won 9 or 10 games with McCaffery. I just don’t get why Jim try’s to go and grab a qb every year.

Running backs
Look I like Higdon . But he has been the same old crap Michigan has had for the last ten plus years. He can’t break a big td run. Misses holes time and again. Finally he went over 1000 yards. His improved line play helped him there. When was the last time Michigan had a difference maker at back ?

The drop off from Higdon is staggering .
Evans then Wilson wtf ?
I like Mason but he is a short yardage back only.

Wr.
Where was the separation yesterday? Is it the passing scheme of Hamilton?
Ability ? All of the above? Where is the speed guy in the group ?

Dpj...improved from last season.
Collins...imporved from last season.
Black.....just have zero clue because of his foot issues if he will ever be great.
All others . Nothing to mention here.

Tight ends.
Gentry had a bad game yesterday sadly. He is good . Needs to work on his
Hands.

Line play.
Let’s just say the new coach worked wonders but in the two biggest games
They all fell flat and did not come to play. Game one they can get a slight pass but not yesterday. They were embarrassing verses osu.

Defense

Brown
You know how I feel about him. Did he look at any games tape verses osu ? His blitz package was awful. His Db’s Looked like they had never seen a crossing route. He was totally schooled again by a superior coaching staff. Look I won’t give up on him but he has to look in the mirror and figure his late season issues out.

Defensive line
Great verses bad teams. No shows in the biggest game . Gary has to be one of the biggest
5 star recuriting bust of all time. Chase was a no show yesterday maybe both him and Gary were hurt. Also this is why you don’t flap you gums. When you fail you look like a complete fool. Not sure what happen to the rest of the line. Manhandled by a group that was torched but just about every team they played this year except us.

Linebackers
Bush is decent if undersized . Hudson is decent. The rest heck I don’t
Even know the names of the rest of the linebackers

DB’s
Long and hill are above Average. They rest stink. They were slow and awful.


Special teams coach deserves shoutout...
Thanks for having Moody ready as a back up when the star (Gum flapping Nordin failed).
But wtf. In the biggest game you get a punt blocked. Remember it was late 3rd quarter and the wolverines were only down 8 points. That punt block put a fork in any comeback attempt whatsoever. Thanks buddy ! Awful blocking .

 

[rumseyhouse77]

I don't get the complete failure of the D line to get any pressure on Haskins. None! No sacks? With the issues that the OSU O line has had all year? What happened? Every other team was able to get to Haskins. Can't really argue that the explanation was that the Michigan D line just padded its stats against bad teams. The OSU O line was not good until yesterday. Yesterday they were great! How was their play different from their play the whole rest off the season? Need to rewatch the game to see what was happening on the rush when OSU had the ball.

 

[hungry]

Every team did not put pressure on OSU. A few did. OSU laid eggs at Purdue and at Maryland. That much is obvious. We can't count on OSU to lay an egg in The Game, especially in C-bus. I'm wondering, too, about how effective Gary and Winovich really were, how injured. I didn't really want to focus on injuries, though.

You might say the offense is slow and/or outdated, but people were open and dropped some balls. The run game is lacking, but is that because of a lesser talented backfield and sub-par O-line or is it a scheme? I think it is the talent, not the scheme.

Michigan's D has only been torched like twice since Brown has got here. Several of the other losses, blame can be placed on the O for putting the D in bad situations. IU had success in the first half and didn't do anything in the 2nd half.

Shea is the best QB on the roster. McCaffrey got hurt. Milton was not ready to be the starting QB at Michigan all year. Time to put that stuff to bed. I'm thinking Michigan is done getting grad transfers at QB now. The QB stable will be full next year with a QB in every class.

Yep, Higdon is decent, but limited. I have no idea why Harbaugh had to have a RB rotation. Was Higdon tired after 1 8 yard gain? Pick your best back and give him 20-25 carries, the other ones can get 5 or so...

Receiver is still not deep and not developed. 3 guys have talent, but are young. The rest are not very talented.

Yep, O line still needs a lot of new talent and development.

 

[Mawilli]

Rashan Gary never made an impact game changing play his entire career. Let that sink in.

 

[Mawilli]

Every team did not put pressure on OSU. A few did. OSU laid eggs at Purdue and at Maryland. That much is obvious. We can't count on OSU to lay an egg in The Game, especially in C-bus. I'm wondering, too, about how effective Gary and Winovich really were, how injured. I didn't really want to focus on injuries, though.

You might say the offense is slow and/or outdated, but people were open and dropped some balls. The run game is lacking, but is that because of a lesser talented backfield and sub-par O-line or is it a scheme? I think it is the talent, not the scheme.

Michigan's D has only been torched like twice since Brown has got here. Several of the other losses, blame can be placed on the O for putting the D in bad situations. IU had success in the first half and didn't do anything in the 2nd half.

Shea is the best QB on the roster. McCaffrey got hurt. Milton was not ready to be the starting QB at Michigan all year. Time to put that stuff to bed. I'm thinking Michigan is done getting grad transfers at QB now. The QB stable will be full next year with a QB in every class.

Yep, Higdon is decent, but limited. I have no idea why Harbaugh had to have a RB rotation. Was Higdon tired after 1 8 yard gain? Pick your best back and give him 20-25 carries, the other ones can get 5 or so...

Receiver is still not deep and not developed. 3 guys have talent, but are young. The rest are not very talented.

Yep, O line still needs a lot of new talent and development.

The offensive scheme is outdated. Look at the top 15 offensive teams in college football. They all run some version of the spread. Pro Style offense will only work against other elite teams if you are alabama and have 5 stars at every position. Hell, even alabama runs some spread concepts now. Michigan's 1980 offense works fine against teams with lesser talent, but gets destroyed against teams with equal or better talent. Until this changes they are a 9 or 10 win team that will never win another big ten title.

 

[lostleader]

Rashan Gary never made an impact game changing play his entire career. Let that sink in.

I couldn't agree more. He has made some good plays, and he is a decent player, but a top level talent ready for the NFL he is not. Actually this entire team would benefit another year before making the jump, if the coaching staff is competent

 

[biggunsbob]

Do we need a complete overhaul? Probably not. But some soul searching needs to take place. Why do we underperform in big games under Jim ? Osu was faster yeasterdsy but is the talent level between the two clubs that far apart ? I just don’t know. I disgree that only two teams Maryland and Purdue gave osu fits. They should have lost the Psu, Nebraska, and Maryland game and found ways to win. Haskin is great but if he is hurried he makes mistakes. Heck Indiana had 3 turnovers verses osu. Ok so not every team got to Haskins but there was enough tape to see how it was done . Maryland, Nebraska, and Psu All had real good shots to beat them. Purdue did. You can’t tell me we don’t have better players then Purdue . Yesterday’s game just makes zero sense to me how it all went down. It is just inexplicable that Brown had zero packages to counter the crossing patterns. Or maybe he did and we were just beat badly. I am super frustrated that I feel bad about a 10-2 season right now. A two game improvement from last season five loss team should be enjoyable to have but after yesterday’s debacle I am just disappointed.

 

[Mawilli]

Do we need a complete overhaul? Probably not. But some soul searching needs to take place. Why do we underperform in big games under Jim ? Osu was faster yeasterdsy but is the talent level between the two clubs that far apart ? I just don’t know. I disgree that only two teams Maryland and Purdue gave osu fits. They should have lost the Psu, Nebraska, and Maryland game and found ways to win. Haskin is great but if he is hurried he makes mistakes. Heck Indiana had 3 turnovers verses osu. Ok so not every team got to Haskins but there was enough tape to see how it was done . Maryland, Nebraska, and Psu All had real good shots to beat them. Purdue did. You can’t tell me we don’t have better players then Purdue . Yesterday’s game just makes zero sense to me how it all went down. It is just inexplicable that Brown had zero packages to counter the crossing patterns. Or maybe he did and we were just beat badly. I am super frustrated that I feel bad about a 10-2 season right now. A two game improvement from last season five loss team should be enjoyable to have but after yesterday’s debacle I am just disappointed.

Purdue and Maryland schemed to take advantage of OSU's weaknesses. Maryland used a ton of misdirection plays. Did Michigan? Nope. Purdue got the ball to their best athletes in space. Did Michigan? Nope. As far as superior athletes? Yes, OSU is light years ahead of Michigan in that regard. Ohio State had 13 players rated higher than Michigan's best recruit last year. Ohio State's worst recruit is better than half of Michigan's recruits from last year. Ohio State is light years ahead. https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/
But, you know Harbaugh has to win his way just like Bo did. Adapt or die for Michigan in this regard.

 

[hungry]

Rashan Gary never made an impact game changing play his entire career. Let that sink in.

He played on a good defense that won 28 games in 3 years (with still 1 more to go.) He was often double-teamed, so others would make plays.

His health was often very questionable.

I think we'd all love for him to play another season, but I think he's a goner.

 

[hungry]

The offensive scheme is outdated. Look at the top 15 offensive teams in college football. They all run some version of the spread. Pro Style offense will only work against other elite teams if you are alabama and have 5 stars at every position. Hell, even alabama runs some spread concepts now. Michigan's 1980 offense works fine against teams with lesser talent, but gets destroyed against teams with equal or better talent. Until this changes they are a 9 or 10 win team that will never win another big ten title.

The offensive scheme would do a lot better with a better O-line filled with juniors and seniors at every position of that line. It would do a lot better with 3 more highly talented WR recruits and WR's that were juniors and seniors ahead of them. The offensive scheme would work better with a really good RB that could take it to the house.

 

[hungry]

I couldn't agree more. He has made some good plays, and he is a decent player, but a top level talent ready for the NFL he is not. Actually this entire team would benefit another year before making the jump, if the coaching staff is competent

Bush and Gary are probably both gone. The only other ones that Michigan probably loses are out of eligibility.

 

[hungry]

Do we need a complete overhaul? Probably not. But some soul searching needs to take place. Why do we underperform in big games under Jim ? Osu was faster yeasterdsy but is the talent level between the two clubs that far apart ? I just don?t know. I disgree that only two teams Maryland and Purdue gave osu fits. They should have lost the Psu, Nebraska, and Maryland game and found ways to win. Haskin is great but if he is hurried he makes mistakes. Heck Indiana had 3 turnovers verses osu. Ok so not every team got to Haskins but there was enough tape to see how it was done . Maryland, Nebraska, and Psu All had real good shots to beat them. Purdue did. You can?t tell me we don?t have better players then Purdue . Yesterday?s game just makes zero sense to me how it all went down. It is just inexplicable that Brown had zero packages to counter the crossing patterns. Or maybe he did and we were just beat badly. I am super frustrated that I feel bad about a 10-2 season right now. A two game improvement from last season five loss team should be enjoyable to have but after yesterday?s debacle I am just disappointed.

Michigan is a lot more talented than Purdue. OSU is more talented than Purdue. OSU laid an egg at Purdue at night. Michigan has to be able to compete with OSU at its best. OSU isn't laying any eggs against Michigan.

OSU often has games where they don't play up to their potential. This doesn't happen against Michigan. OSU is clearly the best team/program in the conference, the most talented and deep team/program. Michigan is now the 2nd best team/program in the conference. We couldn't say that not too long ago.

It wasn't just a 2 game improvement. You can tell yourself that if you really want to. Michigan didn't just win 10 games. They won 9 of them by a comfortable margin. They still have a bowl game to go, obviously.

 

[johnny2x2x]

I come in peace. UM fans need to pay a little more attention to the recruiting rankings that are so dear to their hearts. Urban has been torching Michigan and the rest of the Big Ten in recruiting for years. The last 5 classes they've brought in like 50 top 100 players. Michigan has brought in like 12-15. PSU about the same, the rest of the Big Ten maybe 15 combined. So OSU has more elite recruits than the rest of the conference combined the last 5 years and more than 3 times the elite recruits Michigan has gotten. If you count top 100 as elite.

OSU has players you never heard of who make plays and you wonder how the hell they have a kid that talented on 2nd string, then you look up the recruiting rankings and realize they were the #48 overall player in the country, but that the 3 guys in front of him on the depth chart were the #17, #33, and #40 overall players in the country. OSU is stacking top 100 guys upon top 100 guys all over the field so that their depth is great and they just reload when a mess of their players head to the draft early.

They have the most talent in the conference and it's not even close. They also have the best staff in the conference. And when it comes to game planning their staff is the best in the country and that include's Alabama's staff. Urban will find a weakness and exploit the shit out of it when no one else could.

 

[wlvrnstlr4life]

He played on a good defense that won 28 games in 3 years (with still 1 more to go.) He was often double-teamed, so others would make plays.

His health was often very questionable.

I think we'd all love for him to play another season, but I think he's a goner.

This "often double teamed" excuse is total bullshit. He is rarely if ever double teamed. He has no moves at all except trying to get up field then flies right by the quarterback. No spin move, no punch(doesnt use his hands to get the tackle off balance), and no good 1st step. He needs to put on weight and be a DT.

Ill also add that Haskins is not light years ahead of Shea. I dont even think he is better. Haskins is shit when under pressure. When you have 7 sec to get rid of the ball, you look NFL ready. When you have a whole 3 sec, like Shea, you look like a high schooler. Shea did pretty darn well under those 3 sec, though. If they had a fucking short pass game, he would have looked even better.

I suggest everyone read that Brian dude's article over at MgoBlow. He summarizes everything perfectly and is spot on in his assessment of the game.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

Of the guys that are graduating (or at least finished their eligibility) how many are actually going to play in the bowl game? If you had a chance to go to the NFL for the big payday would you risk it on a meaningless bowl game or do you have some "injury" that keeps you from playing? I think Chase will play, but I would be surprised to see others out there. This is fine, I'd give the other guys (like Milton and McCaffery) coming up some playing time to get the experience and see what they can do. Let the competition start early!

 

[hungry]

I come in peace. UM fans need to pay a little more attention to the recruiting rankings that are so dear to their hearts. Urban has been torching Michigan and the rest of the Big Ten in recruiting for years. The last 5 classes they've brought in like 50 top 100 players. Michigan has brought in like 12-15. PSU about the same, the rest of the Big Ten maybe 15 combined. So OSU has more elite recruits than the rest of the conference combined the last 5 years and more than 3 times the elite recruits Michigan has gotten. If you count top 100 as elite.

OSU has players you never heard of who make plays and you wonder how the hell they have a kid that talented on 2nd string, then you look up the recruiting rankings and realize they were the #48 overall player in the country, but that the 3 guys in front of him on the depth chart were the #17, #33, and #40 overall players in the country. OSU is stacking top 100 guys upon top 100 guys all over the field so that their depth is great and they just reload when a mess of their players head to the draft early.

They have the most talent in the conference and it's not even close. They also have the best staff in the conference. And when it comes to game planning their staff is the best in the country and that include's Alabama's staff. Urban will find a weakness and exploit the shit out of it when no one else could.

This was pretty much my point. Although, the counterargument is, "Then why can Purdue destroy them?" "Why can Iowa destroy them 2 years ago?" "Why can Maryland and Nebraska play them so close?"

 

[hungry]

Of the guys that are graduating (or at least finished their eligibility) how many are actually going to play in the bowl game? If you had a chance to go to the NFL for the big payday would you risk it on a meaningless bowl game or do you have some "injury" that keeps you from playing? I think Chase will play, but I would be surprised to see others out there. This is fine, I'd give the other guys (like Milton and McCaffery) coming up some playing time to get the experience and see what they can do. Let the competition start early!

I think that if I were Harbaugh, i would play the best players that want to play, whether they be outgoing seniors or not. Harbaugh will get blasted if he loses the bowl game, whether or not he plays the underclassmen or the upperclassmen...

 

[wlvrnstlr4life]

Bowls are NOT meaningless. Especially if you are playing another top team like LSU, which is a probability, if OSU doesnt make the playoff. This is the final impression on a recruit who is seriously on the fence with where the program is headed. If you dont land that 5* in Dec, you might have that shot in Feb. Bowls are only meaningless to guys that are getting ready for the combine.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

Do we need a complete overhaul? Probably not. But some soul searching needs to take place. Why do we underperform in big games under Jim ? Osu was faster yeasterdsy but is the talent level between the two clubs that far apart ? I just don?t know. I disgree that only two teams Maryland and Purdue gave osu fits. They should have lost the Psu, Nebraska, and Maryland game and found ways to win. Haskin is great but if he is hurried he makes mistakes. Heck Indiana had 3 turnovers verses osu. Ok so not every team got to Haskins but there was enough tape to see how it was done . Maryland, Nebraska, and Psu All had real good shots to beat them. Purdue did. You can?t tell me we don?t have better players then Purdue . Yesterday?s game just makes zero sense to me how it all went down. It is just inexplicable that Brown had zero packages to counter the crossing patterns. Or maybe he did and we were just beat badly. I am super frustrated that I feel bad about a 10-2 season right now. A two game improvement from last season five loss team should be enjoyable to have but after yesterday?s debacle I am just disappointed.

I don't think the team needs a complete overhaul, just some tweaking. For example, if you are going to run the ball inside on first or second down why not give it to Bench Mason rather than Evans or Higdon? Bench would likely get the two yards that the other two were getting, and maybe a couple more, and he will physically punish the D line softening them up for the smaller backs, especially as the game goes on. I like using the fullback in the offense, but he can be used effectively for more than just 3rd and short or inside the 3yd line. Little things like this can make a difference as the game wears on. The offense just needs some tweaks.