Sanders continues to close the gap on Clinton

[tinselwolverine]

It needs to be something that hits each trade just a little bit...I don't see it as morally worse than any other kind of waste. That's all it is. Just wasteful.

I abridged your post in an effort to avoid wasting space on the internet.

I don't know why the quantity of trades made is any kind of problem in the first place.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It looks like someone has launched an exchange where trades are delayed by 350 microseconds (that's 0.00035 seconds) to nip this stuff in the bud.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/24/opinion/one-way-to-unrig-stock-trading.html?ref=topics&_r=0


Here are some wikipedia bullets:

Wikipedia says Italy is now charging 0.02% on trades lasting less than 0.5 seconds (that's a better idea than what I suggested above.)

In 2009, 2% of the brokerage firms were high frequency traders. They made up 73% of the trading volume.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I abridged your post in an effort to avoid wasting space on the internet.

I don't know why the quantity of trades made is any kind of problem in the first place.

There was, earlier, risk in computers causing flash crashes. I think that's under control now. Now it's just the arms race to shave off milliseconds that's wasteful that I don't like. ...and I think some part of it is they're actually fast enough in some cases to see that someone else is putting an order in, quickly sneaking in their order in between where it's at and where the new order is, and then reversing the order (buy->sell or sell->buy) after the order they observed hits. It scrapes a little profit away from the people who's order was observed and puts it in the hands of people that didn't do any of the work observing the world and making a judgement on what the value of things are that's the whole reason we reward investors in this way. To the degree they profit, I think they're actually taking money away from the people doing the things we're trying to reward.

 

[tinselwolverine]

It looks like someone has launched an exchange where trades are delayed by 350 microseconds (that's 0.00035 seconds) to nip this stuff in the bud.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/24/opinion/one-way-to-unrig-stock-trading.html?ref=topics&_r=0

This market fragmentation allows high-frequency traders and exchanges to profit at the expense of long-term investors.

It sounds to me like a problem that doesn't exist.

Long term investing isn't about being concerned with fractional differences in stock prices that occur within microseconds.

 

[Gulo Blue]

This market fragmentation allows high-frequency traders and exchanges to profit at the expense of long-term investors.

It sounds to me like a problem that doesn't exist.

Long term investing isn't about being concerned with fractional differences in stock prices that occur within microseconds.

You're a problem that doesn't exist.

Those little fractional differences might not change your behavior, but that doesn't mean you can't call it BS that you have to hand these guys some money some significant part of the time you make a trade.

 

[tinselwolverine]

You're a problem that doesn't exist.

Those little fractional differences might not change your behavior, but that doesn't mean you can't call it BS that you have to hand these guys some money some significant part of the time you make a trade.

I'm a problem that doesn't exist?

Is that supposed to be an insult?

Because if it is it really doesn't work.

A problem that doesn't exist isn't a problem.

The article called for this solution:

IEX?s plan is to forgo the high profits earned by the major exchanges from selling speed advantages on the theory that they can make money more ethically by attracting long-term investors.

Its strategy is simple. IEX will not allow traders to reap the benefits of speed, instead slowing down all participants by 350 microseconds. This prevents the front-running facilitated by exchanges, which has led to vigorous and vitriolic opposition from groups that profit from the current arrangement.

They can just do this if enough long term investors are bothered.

That's not going to stop short term trading though; that's been going on forever.

Nobody wants to pay taxes on their trades, whether they be short term traders or long term investors.

 

[Michchamp]

I'm a problem that doesn't exist?

Is that supposed to be an insult?

Because if it is it really doesn't work.

...

it is a Friday afternoon. Maybe he has been drinking?

 

[tinselwolverine]

it is a Friday afternoon. Maybe he has been drinking?

He does like his beer.

I'm going to take it as a tongue in cheek retort, aided by the influence of a nice cinnamon and pickle brine barley malt buzz....

 

[tigermud]

Market is lookin turrible econ in shambles, RBS said sell it all the other day, Iran will be allowed to start selling oil again on Monday driving the price even lower likely. $10-16 Gas under a buck

This Summer's Gonna Hurt Like A Motherf****r (The Him Remix)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG71WAU9pbg

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'm a problem that doesn't exist?

Is that supposed to be an insult?

You're supposed to be an insult!

 

[Gulo Blue]

Market is lookin turrible econ in shambles, RBS said sell it all the other day, Iran will be allowed to start selling oil again on Monday driving the price even lower likely. $10-16 Gas under a buck

This Summer's Gonna Hurt Like A Motherf****r (The Him Remix)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG71WAU9pbg

I started a thread on that the other day. RBS says "sell everything". I'm not smart enough to know if that's true. I'm pretty sure when oil was through the roof, they blamed economic problems on that too. Seems like you can't have it both ways.

Maybe you can. Maybe there's a sweet spot and the economy suffers if you stray from it, but I don't get why that would be other than the vague idea that either way (too high or too low) there's some rich group of people upset and closing things down.

 

[tigermud]

I started a thread on that the other day. RBS says "sell everything". I'm not smart enough to know if that's true. I'm pretty sure when oil was through the roof, they blamed economic problems on that too. Seems like you can't have it both ways.

Maybe you can. Maybe there's a sweet spot and the economy suffers if you stray from it, but I don't get why that would be other than the vague idea that either way (too high or too low) there's some rich group of people upset and closing things down.

The fraking industry is going to be decimated by this and defaults will occur leat and right ripple through banks etc.. Although I'm not a big fan of fraking as its upsetting weight balances shiftingand contaminating ground, generating earth quakes all over the fen place etc it will hit the Econ hard when it all goes bust, I've heard some estimates that it will be a 1 trillion hit to the Econ

Sorry didn't see your other thread on this till just now

 

[Gulo Blue]

The fraking industry is going to be decimated by this and defaults will occur leat and right ripple through banks etc.. Although I'm not a big fan of fraking as its upsetting weight balances shiftingand contaminating ground, generating earth quakes all over the fen place etc it will hit the Econ hard when it all goes bust, I've heard some estimates that it will be a 1 trillion hit to the Econ

Sorry didn't see your other thread on this till just now

That could make sense, if there's enough loaned.

The other thought I had was that the Saudis could actually do significant damage crushing the price, then ramping it up, then dropping it again. Just adding volatility to the system would scare off a lot of people. If enough loans go bust, banks will be more hesitant to make those loans next time.

 

[Spartanmack]

It looks like someone has launched an exchange where trades are delayed by 350 microseconds (that's 0.00035 seconds) to nip this stuff in the bud.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/24/opinion/one-way-to-unrig-stock-trading.html?ref=topics&_r=0


Here are some wikipedia bullets:

Wikipedia says Italy is now charging 0.02% on trades lasting less than 0.5 seconds (that's a better idea than what I suggested above.)

In 2009, 2% of the brokerage firms were high frequency traders. They made up 73% of the trading volume.

Fragmentation and automation has had it's advantages - stocks are generally easier and much cheaper to trade than they were 15+ years ago when all you had was 3 (really 2) exchanges and needed a live broker to execute trades. But there is much less transparency - price discovery is more difficult and it's much harder to know where the market really is in a name as well as the risk of front running and outright manipulation. If all they were doing was generating a speed advantage on one side (bidding/offering or hitting/taking) and not getting help from the exchanges by paying for a speed advantage that would be one thing. It's shocking to me that exchanges are allowed to sell speed advantages, allowing HFTs to post and pull orders so quickly and trade in smaller increments (tenths of a penny and even smaller) while everyone else trades in whole pennies - it's a rigged game.

It's not a problem that doesn't really exist because you're not just paying an extra tenth of a penny on a few shares. If you're buying big chunks of stock, these guys are seeing that and they're so fast that they can pull their offer faster than you can lift it and re-offer stock higher - so you end up chasing price higher and higher to get done and it ends up costing you nickels, dimes or more which on large orders adds up pretty quickly. HFTs claim they are adding liquidity to the market which isn't really true. What they're really doing is front-running at best and at worst, manipulating markets.

 

[tigermud]

What time and channel are the two remaining Demoncrates on tonight?

 

[Monster]

This debate is killing me. A lot of BLM cock sucking. Somebody grow some balls.

 

[sggatecl]

This debate is killing me. A lot of BLM cock sucking. Somebody grow some balls.

I picture Monster with an #AllLivesMatter T-shirt. :tup:

 

[Monster]

Wow. They are doing O'Malley dirty. They've skipped his answer like 3 times and ignore him when he tries to speak.

 

[sggatecl]

"If I yell louder you clap more so i will yell every finishing sentence to show faux support!"

 

[Monster]

I picture Monster with an #AllLivesMatter T-shirt. :tup:

Not at all. Not all lives matter. You fight a cop, try to run him or her over, commit armed robbery, rape, murder, etc....your life ceases to matter to me. However, I might wear a shirt that says, "Reform the police system". Reform as in requiring each officer to be physically fit until their career is over, have proper training with safer methods to disable suspects, and make them more efficient.