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Its not about the money or are you new to being a Lions fan? Its about loyalty
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Shake up rumours
- Thread starter cheeno
- Start date
Its not about the money or are you new to being a Lions fan? Its about loyalty
http://www.freep.com/article/201212...s-jim-schwartz-martin-mayhew?odyssey=nav|head
schwartz denies rumors
schwartz denies rumors
I think Mayhew learned his lesson on taking character risks and responded correctly this past draft. See Reiff and Broyles picks. Though Fairley is working out and LeShoure was solid at times so they may be character risks but they actually help the team. Titus Young not so much but they'll dump him this offseason. We'll see if Mayhew learned his lesson on injury risks after he got burned this year by Delmas, Best and Broyles.
Titus Young is the obvious sore thumb. Son of preacher, just became a father and he's worse than he was as a rookie as it become off field stuff that hurt the locker room instead of just stupid personal fouls. But Titus was selected before Mayhew learned his lesson because the lesson wasn't an issue until the first offseason for these guys and 2nd season for Titus.
KVB,Young, Avril and Lo Jack are high character guys but they sucked this year and hurt the Lions more than Fairley or LeShoure ever did. Young hurt us pretty badly in one game at least though we were down anyway after Rodgers torched the defense.
Titus Young is the obvious sore thumb. Son of preacher, just became a father and he's worse than he was as a rookie as it become off field stuff that hurt the locker room instead of just stupid personal fouls. But Titus was selected before Mayhew learned his lesson because the lesson wasn't an issue until the first offseason for these guys and 2nd season for Titus.
KVB,Young, Avril and Lo Jack are high character guys but they sucked this year and hurt the Lions more than Fairley or LeShoure ever did. Young hurt us pretty badly in one game at least though we were down anyway after Rodgers torched the defense.
mhughes0021
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when youre starting john frikken wendling at safety for multiple games.....youre not doing your job.
Agreed he should have gotten better Delmas/Spievey insurance than Wendling and Coleman with Silva on the practice squad. Reiff, Broyles and Bentely we'll see long term if they are good players. A safety over Whitehead or Lewis may have been helpful but we'll see how they pan out long term. Far from over for judging those guys compared to some other rookie safety that may or may not have helped the Lions this season.
Delmas getting hurt is really bad luck though since it wasn't even the same knee(same with Broyles by the way). Coleman getting hurt in 2011 is bad luck because we would have known he sucked in 2011 if he didn't when Delmas went down on Thanksgiving. Coleman sucked and Spievey was hurt I think or Wendling just beat him out in camp. Carey actually has been solid and the best of that bunch but he got hurt in camp and cut because of it.
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mhughes0021
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This is the biggest problem with our team....its always "far from over judging those guys" but in the end they make no name for themselves and fade away into obscurity. We never coach late round guys up and more often then not they dont contribute. Which is forgiveable if your high round picks pan out...but alot of those have been suspect as well. Spievey, best, titus, broyles, leshoure, fairley, reiff....the list doesnt total much production. Broyles, leshoure, fairley and reiff obviously should be a big part of our future....but the stats just arent there yet.
zoombabyzoom
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Honestly this year not much went our way. I think thats why we are even discussing this.
No team can win with the injuries we have. We seemed to be called for every penalty while the other team skates by. Luck plays don't bounce our way, or havent. The suspensions and the Young situation obviously didnt help.
Lets look at the Falcons, and put our injuries on them. Shoot just with the offense. No Turner (best), No Julio Jones, and every other WR not named White. No Tony Gonzalez. Suddenly that offense is pathetic looking. And their ok defense wouldnt be able to pick up the slack either.
No team can win with the injuries we have. We seemed to be called for every penalty while the other team skates by. Luck plays don't bounce our way, or havent. The suspensions and the Young situation obviously didnt help.
Lets look at the Falcons, and put our injuries on them. Shoot just with the offense. No Turner (best), No Julio Jones, and every other WR not named White. No Tony Gonzalez. Suddenly that offense is pathetic looking. And their ok defense wouldnt be able to pick up the slack either.
We'll see if they do. I want to see how Broyles and Delmas bounce back from these injuries next season before I write them off. And I'd like some insurance for Delmas at least in this upcoming draft. They are both very talented. Fairley I loved this year. LeShoure didn't get hurt and is solid for now. Could use some better run blocking for him but he was never meant to be the explosive back. They got burned by Best. He was worth the risk in 2011 as that 5-0 start was HUGE but then it came crashing down after 21 games played by Best without a concussion.
Levy, Derrick Williams, Young and Spievey piss me off way more than the guys you listed as Mayhew "failures".
Late round is what it is. Lee Hill and Young looked like they had promise but Young regressed in year 3. 2010 they used a bunch of late rounders for guys that really helped our team like Rob Sims, Corey Williams, Chris Houston and Shaun Hill. 2011 they used one for Lawrence Jackson who made solid contributions until this season. 2012 they lost a pick for tampering. We'll see on the 2012 rookies, it's obviously too early to judge a late rounder from developing. Green did a solid job IMO though so far.
That's one of the problems with building a team from shit is your not developing backups because you can't focus on them when your struggling coaching up starters. The good teams can let picks sit for years before they are needed while we have to throw them to the wolves where they are over matched and end up getting hurt, wash rinse repeat...
So which late picks are we disappointed with the most?
2009 Sammie Lee Hill we like him
2009 5th traded for Julian Peterson (served a purpose in 2009)
2009 6th Aaron Brown, yeah he sucked but had some speed
2009 7th Lydon Murtha swiped by the Dolphins
2009 7th Follett, injury derailed special teams LB
2009 7th Dan Gronkowski (traded for Alphonso Smith later)
2010 4th Jason Fox (injuries now developing, last chance next year)
2010 5th traded for Corey Williams, great move
2010 5th traded for Rob Sims, great move
2010 6th traded for Chris Houston, great move
2010 7th Willie Young (ok pick for a 7th but really disappointed this year compared to 2011)
2010 7th Tim Toone. Yeah he sucked Mr. Irrelevant
2011 4th traded for LeShoure
2011 5th Doug Hogue, cut due to better LBs in Lewis/Whitehead/Palmer
2011 6th traded for Lawrence Jackson before 2010 season (good move)
2011 7th traded for Chris Houston, great move
2011 7th traded for Shaun Hill, great move
2011 7th Johnny Culbreath (injury and weed)
2012 4th Ronnel Lewis (suck special teams, converted from LB to DE with 1 snap at DE in 2012)
2012 5th (used a future 4th) Tahir Whitehead (decent special teams so far)
2012 5th Chris Greenwood (injury so far but has measurables)
2012 6th Jonte Green (solid for a rookie 6th rounder, average CB so far)
2012 6th, lost due to tampering
2012 7th Travis Lewis (solid special teamer, we'll see what Lewis and Whithead can do next year if we lose Levy)
tsmith7559
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all in all, really not too bad.
Agreed. 2011 kind of sucked though. 2010 the trades were amazing and I'll take Willie Young and Jason Fox still. 2009 Hill I'll take out of there. Injury, trade and swiped by the Dolphins took away the 7ths in 2009 to develop.
Those guys take a few years so 2009/2010 is really the only ones to judge. 2011 sucks though because they are already gone. 2012 is way too soon to judge. The reason we don't have 2010 developing besides Young and Fox is because we made so many trades for starters.
I'm not going to crucify Mayhew because Tim Toone and Aaron Brown sucked and Follet got injured.
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zoombabyzoom
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And our top picks have been hurt quite a bit. Which even if a guy has injury concerns. Injuries happen, you cant call a guy prone if someone rolls into his knee.
Best was kind of expected. But we got 21 games out of him.
Delmas and Broyles it was their other knee and Delmas reinjury was from a cheap shot by the Seahawks McQuistan. Total crap and bad luck. Fairley a cheap shot by the Packers Oline in Lambeau. Burleson total bad luck on a big catch by Burleson. Pettigrew isn't injury prone and he's dealing with an ankle injury.
CW is getting up there but was never injury prone. LeShoure stayed healthy after the fluke achilles injury. Spievey never had concussions but a got a bad one in the playoff game. Bad luck there too
mhughes0021
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so what youre saying is sammile lee hill and a bunch of trades that happened 3 years ago in Shaun hill, houston, cw and lojack. i gave mayhew all the credit when he made those trades......i wont take anything away from him there. But he hasnt done much since that year. i can write alot of "glass half empty" type stuff next to those names you listed up above. People like hogue, greenwood, whitehead, fox....you were awfully kind too lol. crap, albion, crap, crap is more like it.
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If bad picks were made does Mayhew get the blame or do the scouts?
zoombabyzoom
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I really am impressed with Mayhew's drafting to be honest.
Reiff has shown some really good promise and will be starting next year. Broyles before his injury was really starting to look good, same can be said about Bentley. Then the rest of the draft class Lewis, Whitehead, and Green have been better than I would of expected out of late round picks.
Fairley has also shown he can be a beast when he is on the field. Titus Young had a crap ton of potential then became a drama queen. Leshoure has shown his ability while still recovering from his Achilles injury. Hogue? Who. Culbreath....lol
Suh is awesome, one of the best DTs. Best? Sucks, we took a gamble on him and at first he looked like a great playmaker but he probably sustained a career ending injury, which doesnt happen every year. Spievey, not very good probably a nice 3rd safety on a roster. Jason Fox, hasn't shown anything. But Willie Young already has earned his draft position and a lot more. Tim Toone....ha
Stafford, very good. Pettigrew wasn't billed as an elite pass catcher. But does a lot of things very good. Delmas, if he could stay healthy would be a pro bowler. Levy has been very versatile for us and is a NFL starter. Derrick Williams, remember this guy...wow. SLH, like willie young has earned more than his draft position already. Aaron Brown, wasn't great but our running game isnt either. Still think he was a decent pick. Dan Gronkowski and Lydon Murtha, are nobody's. Follet was an awesome special teamer before he suffered a career ending injury.
So we have had some bad luck with injuries, but some of our later round picks have actually produced and some are out of the league. We haven't found a late round gem yet, but there aren't tons of those every year anyways. Plus, usually those players go to good teams and don't have to be rushed.
Reiff has shown some really good promise and will be starting next year. Broyles before his injury was really starting to look good, same can be said about Bentley. Then the rest of the draft class Lewis, Whitehead, and Green have been better than I would of expected out of late round picks.
Fairley has also shown he can be a beast when he is on the field. Titus Young had a crap ton of potential then became a drama queen. Leshoure has shown his ability while still recovering from his Achilles injury. Hogue? Who. Culbreath....lol
Suh is awesome, one of the best DTs. Best? Sucks, we took a gamble on him and at first he looked like a great playmaker but he probably sustained a career ending injury, which doesnt happen every year. Spievey, not very good probably a nice 3rd safety on a roster. Jason Fox, hasn't shown anything. But Willie Young already has earned his draft position and a lot more. Tim Toone....ha
Stafford, very good. Pettigrew wasn't billed as an elite pass catcher. But does a lot of things very good. Delmas, if he could stay healthy would be a pro bowler. Levy has been very versatile for us and is a NFL starter. Derrick Williams, remember this guy...wow. SLH, like willie young has earned more than his draft position already. Aaron Brown, wasn't great but our running game isnt either. Still think he was a decent pick. Dan Gronkowski and Lydon Murtha, are nobody's. Follet was an awesome special teamer before he suffered a career ending injury.
So we have had some bad luck with injuries, but some of our later round picks have actually produced and some are out of the league. We haven't found a late round gem yet, but there aren't tons of those every year anyways. Plus, usually those players go to good teams and don't have to be rushed.
tsmith7559
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