Should Tigers trade Miggy?

[mjsb2]

We need a power hitter more than anything.

Everybody complains about how our offense is station to station and relies on the big hit too much, but we were first in BA and 2nd in OBP in all of baseball last year.

Were 10th in Isolated power. And we're now likely to replace Peralta's bat with Iglesias', only making matters worse.

 

[bdemil1]

We can't afford a Pujols type contract. Miggy is still 2 years away from leaving, just wait and see what happens next year. We have to start modeling our organization after the Cardinals (awesome minor league system) and not the Yankees (huge contracts to old players).

 

[Thumb]

You could probably trade both. Trade Max for high value targets like you said and then Trade Miggy for a good young pitcher, another high quality every day player and some good prospects. With the money you save they can fill in other holes via free agency.

what money we save?

Goddamn Tom, how many times do people have to tell you there is no salary cap? You assume that cutting guys with big contracts loose frees up spending, and that has never been the case with Mr. I, not once.

It's a simple concept and you can't seem to grasp it.

 

[Thumb]

Lead off hitter is a must, I agree with you there as well as the bullpen. No way do I want Cano here though if he's gonna get outrageous money. We already have plenty of long term bloated contracts. Cano is an unnecessary luxury the Tigers don't need to get them over the hump.

I don't see leadoff hitter as that big of a deal. Far behind 2B and LF/RF in terms of priority.

Both Hunter and Iggy could potentially lead off for us, plus you never know about Ajax still or whoever we get foir 2B and LF/RF. I don't think you specifically target a guy as a leadoff hitter.

And like others have mentioned we need either the LF/RF (optimally this position) or 2B to be a decent power threat. Personally I'd love to see us land Alex Gordon somehow.

 

[mjsb2]

I don't see leadoff hitter as that big of a deal. Far behind 2B and LF/RF in terms of priority.

Both Hunter and Iggy could potentially lead off for us, plus you never know about Ajax still or whoever we get foir 2B and LF/RF. I don't think you specifically target a guy as a leadoff hitter.

And like others have mentioned we need either the LF/RF (optimally this position) or 2B to be a decent power threat. Personally I'd love to see us land Alex Gordon somehow.

Iggy should never sniff higher than 8th in the order.

 

[UMRules06]

I don't see leadoff hitter as that big of a deal. Far behind 2B and LF/RF in terms of priority.

Both Hunter and Iggy could potentially lead off for us, plus you never know about Ajax still or whoever we get foir 2B and LF/RF. I don't think you specifically target a guy as a leadoff hitter.

And like others have mentioned we need either the LF/RF (optimally this position) or 2B to be a decent power threat. Personally I'd love to see us land Alex Gordon somehow.

Well maybe the pain of the playoffs is still present in my mind, but to me Jackson and Hunter not getting it done at the 1-2 was one of the things that stood out. I don't disagree with needing a 2B and a corner outfielder at all. Wouldn't it be nice to kill two birds with one stone and sign a guy like Choo to both leadoff and play RF (move Hunter to LF)? You upgrade the leadoff spot with a guy who can actually take a walk and gets on base at a career .389 clip (well over .400 last year). If there are cheaper 2B available than Infante who have solid gloves I might go that direction. Don't understand the people asking for Cano.

 

[Thumb]

Iggy should never sniff higher than 8th in the order.

I wouldn't say never yet. Right now, I agree, but we don't know how he will continue to develop under professional coaches at higher levels. The guy is 23 and only ever had Cuban or A-AA hitting coaches before last year.

The right hitting coach might be able to make him very good at the plate, then again he might not, but I think it's too early to say "never".

 

[kalinecountry]

We can't afford a Pujols type contract. Miggy is still 2 years away from leaving, just wait and see what happens next year. We have to start modeling our organization after the Cardinals (awesome minor league system) and not the Yankees (huge contracts to old players).

Miggy is the most popular and greatest Tigers' Hitter since Kaline....There was one year the Tigers thought of trading Al and that was after the 1965 season for Jim Kaat.

If the Tigers scouting, talent evaluators, draft people and everyone involved in the type of players they go after had an epiphany and changed the philosophy on what kind of players they have to get, instead of low ceiling, poor plate discipline position players....from the ground floor to the top then that is a start to get a minor league system in place to be able to move a player of Cabrera's Magnitude without skipping a beat.
For many years they do not do that, rather draft and use certain players hype to trade for established players or through FA.
I know a little something about some college and high school players and always see them pass on a player I think is good, and draft some non-descript instead. and another team picks the guy within a few picks. Or, a team drafts a player I think would be a good pick for the Tigers before they have the chance.

Look, eventually Victor will be gone, and maybe...maybe Castellanos will go to 3rd and then Miggy and Fielder will play 1B and DH. maybe, but for the foreseeable future it is what it is,
The Beast Hitter and mediocre to average 3rd baseman and a poor to mediocre fielding 1B who really had a year less than expected despite his final numbers.
Too much on Prince's plate which caused some loss of focus and concentration. It happens to all of us. Anyone else here have to go through that shitstorm of a divorce?? That's what I'm talking about. I am inclined to think he will bounce back with some improved numbers for 2014. I do agree that the length of the contract say the last 2/3 years will not be pretty, unless he takes some weight off.

 

[tomdalton22]

what money we save?

Goddamn Tom, how many times do people have to tell you there is no salary cap? You assume that cutting guys with big contracts loose frees up spending, and that has never been the case with Mr. I, not once.

It's a simple concept and you can't seem to grasp it.

goddamn Thumb....how many times do I have to explain to you that every team has a self imposed ceiling. Every team has a number in mind that they are willing to spend. If the Tigers were willing to spend more than the +- $150M they spent this year they would have done it.

 

[Thumb]

goddamn Thumb....how many times do I have to explain to you that every team has a self imposed ceiling. Every team has a number in mind that they are willing to spend. If the Tigers were willing to spend more than the +- $150M they spent this year they would have done it.

That has no logical basis.

If that was true then why have we steadily increased payroll over the last several years? Was there not a limit then; or just now because you say there is one?

It seems apparent they ARE willing to keep spending over whatever the invisible limit you assume exists, proven by the fact they signed Sanchez to a fat contract before this (2013) season and Verlander to a gigantic extension.

 

[tomdalton22]

That has no logical basis.

If that was true then why have we steadily increased payroll over the last several years? Was there not a limit then; or just now because you say there is one?

It seems apparent they ARE willing to keep spending over whatever the invisible limit you assume exists, proven by the fact they signed Sanchez to a fat contract before this (2013) season and Verlander to a gigantic extension.

saying the team has no limit on what they are willing to spend has no logical basis. As far as them increasing their spending it is obvious that they changed their spending limit. None of us know what their limit is....maybe this year it will be $200M. The one thing we do know is adventually losing money every year will catch up to them....either when Mr. I decides that he is done losing money on this team, when he dies and his kids take over or if they decide to sell the team.

If the Tigers continue to do business like they have been in the past few years they will turn into the Yankees. An old team with a bloated payroll that can't compete. The only difference being the Tigers don't have the resources that the Yankees have.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I remember having this same conversation with Thumb some time ago yet he was on the opposite side, that MI can't spend forever..I'm sure it was Thumb. If wrong, apology but I think I"m right.

 

[Thumb]

I remember having this same conversation with Thumb some time ago yet he was on the opposite side, that MI can't spend forever..I'm sure it was Thumb. If wrong, apology but I think I"m right.

No you're right about who it was, just a little off on the exact subject context.

And I don't think that the spending is limitless, my argument in this thread has been mostly vs. the idea that money we have already spent, is part of a budget that could have been used elsewhere.

Tom has insisted time after time that if we didn't sign Prince we could use that money elsewhere...what nobody can get him to understand is that the money was not pre-determined, Prince was available and Mr I wanted him...the cost was not an issue, and has not kept us from spending after we got him.

So yes, I have before and still do adhere to the idea that at some point we are going to have to dump salary because our spending increases are not sustainable, and neither is Mr I. Sooner or later he won't be making money decisions about the Tigers, but for now, he is.

The discussion in this thread has been about some kind of hard limit or "spending limit" which does not exist, and probably wont as long as Mike I is alive.

 

[tomdalton22]

No you're right about who it was, just a little off on the exact subject context.

And I don't think that the spending is limitless, my argument in this thread has been mostly vs. the idea that money we have already spent, is part of a budget that could have been used elsewhere.

Tom has insisted time after time that if we didn't sign Prince we could use that money elsewhere...what nobody can get him to understand is that the money was not pre-determined, Prince was available and Mr I wanted him...the cost was not an issue, and has not kept us from spending after we got him.

So yes, I have before and still do adhere to the idea that at some point we are going to have to dump salary because our spending increases are not sustainable, and neither is Mr I. Sooner or later he won't be making money decisions about the Tigers, but for now, he is.

The discussion in this thread has been about some kind of hard limit or "spending limit" which does not exist, and probably wont as long as Mike I is alive.

what Thumb doesn't understand is the principle of opportunity cost.

I don't think I ever said that there was a hard limit but everyone knows that each team has a limit as to what they are willing to spend. Last year it was +/-$154M. We don't know what it will be next year. Also, we don't know is if the team losing money over the past several years has an influence on what they will be willing to spend in the future. The one thing we do know....every team has a number in mind of what they are willing to spend each year.

 

[Thumb]

what Thumb doesn't understand is the principle of opportunity cost.

I don't think I ever said that there was a hard limit but everyone knows that each team has a limit as to what they are willing to spend. Last year it was +/-$154M. We don't know what it will be next year. Also, we don't know is if the team losing money over the past several years has an influence on what they will be willing to spend in the future. The one thing we do know....every team has a number in mind of what they are willing to spend each year.

You have any proof or data at all to back this up?

 

[tomdalton22]

You have any proof or data at all to back this up?

if they didn't wouldn't every team be spending money like the Yankees? Do you have any business sense at all?

 

[Mitchrapp]

No you're right about who it was, just a little off on the exact subject context.

And I don't think that the spending is limitless, my argument in this thread has been mostly vs. the idea that money we have already spent, is part of a budget that could have been used elsewhere.

Tom has insisted time after time that if we didn't sign Prince we could use that money elsewhere...what nobody can get him to understand is that the money was not pre-determined, Prince was available and Mr I wanted him...the cost was not an issue, and has not kept us from spending after we got him.

So yes, I have before and still do adhere to the idea that at some point we are going to have to dump salary because our spending increases are not sustainable, and neither is Mr I. Sooner or later he won't be making money decisions about the Tigers, but for now, he is.

The discussion in this thread has been about some kind of hard limit or "spending limit" which does not exist, and probably wont as long as Mike I is alive.

Yes, and correct and I agree.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The bottom line is MI might have a limit but no way we know what that limit is..As of now, he hasn't reached it as of yet.

 

[xer0]

tomdalton is a fool.

that is all.

 

[Thumb]

if they didn't wouldn't every team be spending money like the Yankees? Do you have any business sense at all?

So no, you don't have anything to back it up on.

Also most teams cannot match the Yankees payroll because they don't have the capital or tv/radio deals like NYY does with YES. I guess anyone with business sense would know that though right?