somewhat OT: Biff Poggi & MD highschool football

[Michchamp]

I was reading this article on Deadspin about a Maryland HS football team (St. Francis Academy) that is so good other teams in their conference are refusing to play them... when I noticed the team is coached by Biff Poggi, father of current UM player Henry Poggi, and who served as a special assistant coach on our staff last year.

Turns out, Biff is a wealthy hedge fund guy, who is single-handedly bankrolling this team out of his own pocket, paying tuition and room-and-board for kids outside the area. He claims it's all for charity and he's helping underprivileged kids, but, to wit:

...the administrator allowed that “there are worse ways to spend money than helping kids,” he admitted being tired of hearing about Poggi’s do-gooding.

“It just so happens,” he said, “that all the kids who need help happen to be 6-foot-5, 280 pounds and play football.”​

also seems like Poggi is only doing this as a FU to his prior coaching gig and alma mater, which fired him because it didn't want to become a football program with a high school attached.

my thoughts:

1) A wealthy adult spending his time and money to basically buy high school football wins is... sad and pathetic.

1a) given what we now know about CTE, it's also "callous" and "abusive"

2) I finally got a replacement needle for my turntable at home, and was able to listen to some 1970's vintage Michigan football records, with famous calls from Bob Ufer and JP McCarthy. these were pretty damn awesome, but it occurred to me that there's probably no way football survives unless we find a way to reverse the effects of years of brain trauma on a person. Probably not possible. And if football does survive, the only people playing it at this level will be people in such hopeless circumstances that suffering an 80-90% chance of being a vegetable at age 50 is a tradeoff worth considering for them, making it even harder to watch.

2a) ... BUT if associating with people like Poggi and sketchy "semi-pro" high school programs is the cost we have to pay to compete with Alabama, OSU, USC, etc. because the NCAA is not doing its job AT ALL anymore and everyone is more or less openly paying for talent... I won't be as sad to see college football go away.​

 

[Gulo Blue]

Yeah. Agree on the sad and pathetic. Spending enough money to win doesn't make you right.



I think football will keep changing. Old people will complain. But 100,000+ will show up to watch something in Michigan Stadium. It just might look more like ultimate frisbee with a football.


You just reminded me, I need to repair the lid hinges on my turntable (more accurately, the plastic the hinges attach to). 70's/80's electronics are solid, but 70's plastics no longer hold up.

 

[Gulo Blue]

AND I think if it happens fast enough, the Big Ten will benefit from being willing to change faster than other conferences. I think Harbaugh, Dantonio, and Meyer would all embrace ignoring the MOB's caterwauling about 'sissy football'.

 

[Michchamp]

Yeah. Agree on the sad and pathetic. Spending enough money to win doesn't make you right.



I think football will keep changing. Old people will complain. But 100,000+ will show up to watch something in Michigan Stadium. It just might look more like ultimate frisbee with a football.


You just reminded me, I need to repair the lid hinges on my turntable (more accurately, the plastic the hinges attach to). 70's/80's electronics are solid, but 70's plastics no longer hold up.

This is the album I bought: link. The seller I got it from threw in a bonus vinyl album of 5 all-time great Michigan games because he said I must be a good fan. Good guy!

I actually bought a whole new turntable. when I set the stereo up 8-9 years ago, I didn't give much thought to it, and bought the Sony because it was cheap. one of my kids broke the needle a couple years ago. replacing it was more of an ordeal than i thought, since no place here sold replacement sony parts, and everyone said to just buy an audio-technica turntable. got one at Fry's for 1/2 off last weekend!

 

[Michchamp]

...

I think football will keep changing. Old people will complain. But 100,000+ will show up to watch something in Michigan Stadium. It just might look more like ultimate frisbee with a football.

...

it's tough to imagine a multi-billion dollar industry disappearing completely. without the contact though, it will presumably have less appeal. so far, seems like there's still plenty of talent in the pipeline, and the NFL and NCAA have been working to suppress the data and negative publicity, but I doubt that lasts.

For a while I figured I'd let my own kids play it at a junior level if they wanted... now? no chance in hell.

hockey hasn't gotten the attention about CTE that football has, but it has the same problem.

 

[Michchamp]

I guess CTE should've also been part of the thread title.

because of reading about the number of former players who suffer from it, (like 99% of former pro players have it, and college numbers aren't much better), and how debilitating t is, I've basically stopped watching pro football, and the only football I watch period is Michigan football on Saturdays.

kinda curious what other people think.

that Broncos-Panthers season opener a couple seasons ago really killed my enthusiasm for the NFL; here CTE & the effects of concussions were in the news, and the refs let the Broncos tee off on Cam Newton's skull, without any concern. By the 4th Q he was having trouble standing, and I was thinking to myself, "You're watching another human being get permanent brain damage for entertainment purposes."

at least college refs have been better at flagging that stuff... but I don't know if the results matter, since even repeated low-level brain impacts lead to CTE.

 

[Gulo Blue]

This is the album I bought: link. The seller I got it from threw in a bonus vinyl album of 5 all-time great Michigan games because he said I must be a good fan. Good guy!

I actually bought a whole new turntable. when I set the stereo up 8-9 years ago, I didn't give much thought to it, and bought the Sony because it was cheap. one of my kids broke the needle a couple years ago. replacing it was more of an ordeal than i thought, since no place here sold replacement sony parts, and everyone said to just buy an audio-technica turntable. got one at Fry's for 1/2 off last weekend!

Cool find. Before I had a turntable, I bought a Michigan Marching Band record and then gave it to someone I knew in the band. Wish I didn't. Bet he's never played it.



I've read the technology plateaued in the 70s/80s, so your best bang for the buck is to find an old, but not too old turntable. Some of the cheaper new ones put too much pressure on the needle, which I think wears out your vinyl.

 

[Gulo Blue]

...such a hipster thing to do. But screw it, I enjoy it.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I guess CTE should've also been part of the thread title.

Ploetz v. NCAA is going to be huge.

https://deadspin.com/the-ncaa-is-running-out-of-excuses-on-brain-injuries-1819854361

 

[Michchamp]

Ploetz v. NCAA is going to be huge.

https://deadspin.com/the-ncaa-is-running-out-of-excuses-on-brain-injuries-1819854361

yeah, that whole article is horrifying. was thinking about it when I started the thread.

the most shocking thing to me is how contrary to their claims & the public's perception, they KNEW about the potential for brain injury going back to the 1920's, and had concussion protocol - which no one followed and they never enforced - since 1933! Unbelievable...

 

[Michchamp]

also: any guy who goes by the name Biff... unquestionably evil, right?

 

[Michchamp]

...such a hipster thing to do. But screw it, I enjoy it.

Well... I listened to records before it was cool. going back to the early 80's when my parents bought me a Fisher Price record player.

I remember Radar Love, by Golden Earring was my jam. My parents kept trying to get me to listen to the Beatles or classical music, but I wasn't having it.

we had an OLD record player/stereo system my dad restored that we used as a piece of furniture... thing weighed a ton. it looked like this:

I used to listen to records on that in the 90's. when we sold our house, we left it there... I was still in grad school and didn't have the means to keep it or move it... sad! I didn't get a turntable for another 5-6 years, but I salvaged as many records as a I could.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Radar Love is a great jam.


I only got into records semi-recently. Of course there was a record player in my living room growing up and I did like my parents music (e.g., 3 Dog Night, The Guess Who, CSNY), but there was a unwanted synching incident between my wife's itunes stuff and my own non-itunes stuff that ruined a lot of my organization and made me say 'to hell with it'.


Fuck Apple

 

[Michchamp]

Radar Love is a great jam.


I only got into records semi-recently. Of course there was a record player in my living room growing up and I did like my parents music (e.g., 3 Dog Night, The Guess Who, CSNY), but there was a unwanted synching incident between my wife's itunes stuff and my own non-itunes stuff that ruined a lot of my organization and made me say 'to hell with it'.


Fuck Apple

oh man... that sucks.

I haven't really used itunes in years. I made the mistake of buying a crappy Dell laptop that couldn't store all my music a few years back, so I kinda gave up. . I still have all my old CD's though, and most of my library is stored on an external hard drive, so I have the means there to re-constitute it.

I read that apple has really crapified itunes in the last several releases... maybe it's time to find new software to organize all my music.

 

[wlvrnstlr4life]

I dont agree with what the Biffster is doing, but its no different than what parochial schools do and have done for decades. They recruit and get the best players from different areas and somehow fund their schooling. The precedent was already set by them and now they are getting their asses handed to them by someone who is doing it better.

As far as football and head injuries. Football players are not ignorant. Michamp, you are letting what you see on tv affect you as something new and ghastly. It's not!! We all knew the risks going in. Especially, when I played high school-college in the 80's and 90's, the Marc Buoniconti tragedy was drilled into our collective thoughts. There wasnt a day that went by that people didnt think it could happen to them. A little memory loss wasnt a blip on the radar compared to breaking your neck and never moving again. We still played knowing full well the consequences. But after seeing the hit over and over again on ESPN, I think all of us played with a little more smarts.

I think this is a good topic of discussion. I can go further with some thoughts, but I thought good to end there for the moment.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I dont agree with what the Biffster is doing, but its no different than what parochial schools do and have done for decades. They recruit and get the best players from different areas and somehow fund their schooling. The precedent was already set by them and now they are getting their asses handed to them by someone who is doing it better.

As far as football and head injuries. Football players are not ignorant. Michamp, you are letting what you see on tv affect you as something new and ghastly. It's not!! We all knew the risks going in. Especially, when I played high school-college in the 80's and 90's, the Marc Buoniconti tragedy was drilled into our collective thoughts. There wasnt a day that went by that people didnt think it could happen to them. A little memory loss wasnt a blip on the radar compared to breaking your neck and never moving again. We still played knowing full well the consequences. But after seeing the hit over and over again on ESPN, I think all of us played with a little more smarts.

I think this is a good topic of discussion. I can go further with some thoughts, but I thought good to end there for the moment.

I can only compare that to my own anecdote where I talked with the coach of 1 youth team, but I can say that what you experienced isn't universally the case.


Also, Marc Buniconti isn't an example of the risk we're talking about. "A little memory loss wasnt a blip on the radar" makes it sound like you don't have a good understanding of CTE.

 

[wlvrnstlr4life]

I can only compare that to my own anecdote where I talked with the coach of 1 youth team, but I can say that what you experienced isn't universally the case.


Also, Marc Buniconti isn't an example of the risk we're talking about. "A little memory loss wasnt a blip on the radar" makes it sound like you don't have a good understanding of CTE.

Um, I have a great understanding, I have had 3 concussions related to football. It's supposed to get worse over time(memory, dying brain cells, slurred language) yada yada yada. Yep got it. The Buoniconti story IS relevant because people back then were telling us the dangers of football and that we shouldnt play anymore.

 

[Gulo Blue]

There was a $1 billion settlement to cover NFL players. I don't know the exact percentages, but I think the percentage of college players that go to the NFL is in the single digits and I think the percentage of high school players that play in college is in the single digits. Since the total number of hits over time plays a role, you'd expect rates for high school players to be much, much lower, but on the other hand, kids are playing harder hitting football at younger ages than ever before too.

 

[thewolverines24]

There was a $1 billion settlement to cover NFL players. I don't know the exact percentages, but I think the percentage of college players that go to the NFL is in the single digits and I think the percentage of high school players that play in college is in the single digits. Since the total number of hits over time plays a role, you'd expect rates for high school players to be much, much lower, but on the other hand, kids are playing harder hitting football at younger ages than ever before too.

1.6% of college football players make it to the NFL.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-professional-athletics

 

[Gulo Blue]

Um, I have a great understanding, I have had 3 concussions related to football. It's supposed to get worse over time(memory, dying brain cells, slurred language) yada yada yada. Yep got it. The Buoniconti story IS relevant because people back then were telling us the dangers of football and that we shouldnt play anymore.

CTE is about subconcussive hits too. Dementia is such a horrible and terrifying thing; I hope you keep up with doctors and do everything possible to keep your brain as healthy as possible.



NFL players won money saying this idea that people were sufficiently warned isn't true. We'll see what happens at the college level soon enough.