Sources: NCAA investigating Michigan football for alleged rule violations related to

[Mitchrapp]

Signed Stealing..

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-nc...tions-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html

 

[bphillips4gg]

What's annoying about this entire thing is the lack of information in nearly every article I've read. How far into this investigation are they? Do they have solid evidence that rules were being violated? When? Or did they receive a complaint and they're just starting to look into it?

Really hope nothing comes of it. I'd guess the Schiano was one of the "former opponents". Not sure who the other would be.

I know high school teams do in-person scouting to write down the jersey numbers for each position since it's not possible to see that on the all 22 they exchange. I seriously doubt there's a need for that nowadays at this level. I honestly don't know what benefit you gain from sending someone who knows less about football than the coaches to go watch a game live that you're not going to get just watching the all 22 you already get.

 

[Mitchrapp]

What's annoying about this entire thing is the lack of information in nearly every article I've read. How far into this investigation are they? Do they have solid evidence that rules were being violated? When? Or did they receive a complaint and they're just starting to look into it?

Really hope nothing comes of it. I'd guess the Schiano was one of the "former opponents". Not sure who the other would be.

I know high school teams do in-person scouting to write down the jersey numbers for each position since it's not possible to see that on the all 22 they exchange. I seriously doubt there's a need for that nowadays at this level. I honestly don't know what benefit you gain from sending someone who knows less about football than the coaches to go watch a game live that you're not going to get just watching the all 22 you already get.

IT seems a couple complaints by other teams. Personally I doubt anything comes of it..

 

[Spartanmack]

What's annoying about this entire thing is the lack of information in nearly every article I've read. How far into this investigation are they? Do they have solid evidence that rules were being violated? When? Or did they receive a complaint and they're just starting to look into it?

Really hope nothing comes of it. I'd guess the Schiano was one of the "former opponents". Not sure who the other would be.

I know high school teams do in-person scouting to write down the jersey numbers for each position since it's not possible to see that on the all 22 they exchange. I seriously doubt there's a need for that nowadays at this level. I honestly don't know what benefit you gain from sending someone who knows less about football than the coaches to go watch a game live that you're not going to get just watching the all 22 you already get.

the posted article says you have to be in-person and using electronic equipment to be in violation. If that's the case they could send any monkey to do the job - they don't have to know anything about football to record audio or video.

If the Patriots benefited from doing it in the NFL, I'm sure there's value to it at the college level. I'm sure any DC would tell you they'd be more than happy to know what the offense was about to run - that's a huge advantage.

 

[UMRules06]

Hope everybody enjoys the last couple months of Jim Harbaugh being the head coach at Michigan. With the way the NCAA is determined to crack down on him, he's all but gone in my opinion.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Hope everybody enjoys the last couple months of Jim Harbaugh being the head coach at Michigan. With the way the NCAA is determined to crack down on him, he's all but gone in my opinion.

He probably just says "fk it I'm gone."

 

[Michchamp]

this is punishment for Jim saying the players deserve to be paid

 

[bphillips4gg]

the posted article says you have to be in-person and using electronic equipment to be in violation. If that's the case they could send any monkey to do the job - they don't have to know anything about football to record audio or video.

If the Patriots benefited from doing it in the NFL, I'm sure there's value to it at the college level. I'm sure any DC would tell you they'd be more than happy to know what the offense was about to run - that's a huge advantage.

I was referring specifically to the rule against advance scouting in person being stupid. It was implemented in 1994 as a way for smaller schools to save money. But the fact that schools are provided the all 22 footage makes me wonder why it's even a necessary rule when you have much more valuable info from that.

I don't disagree that there's and advantage if they had someone recording signs. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate that's what they're being charged with but I also have no idea what other reason you'd have for sending someone to scout in person for either unless their sole job was to watch the signs, try to figure them out without recording, then report back. In that case the advance scouting would be a violation, likely level 2, but the sign stealing would not be.

 

[UMRules06]

We all know that if this came out about a rival school/coach that they stole our signs to use against us that we'd be up in arms....I'm very disappointed in all the sleaziness now associated with our program. If it turns out the investigation has merit then Harbaugh better win his dirty championship and just take his shit elsewhere.

 

[tomdalton22]

this is punishment for Jim saying the players deserve to be paid

I highly doubt that. My guess it is because he didn't bow down to them when they were investigating the cheeseburger he bought some kid during COVID (or whatever other thing they were investigating)

 

[bphillips4gg]

We all know that if this came out about a rival school/coach that they stole our signs to use against us that we'd be up in arms....I'm very disappointed in all the sleaziness now associated with our program. If it turns out the investigation has merit then Harbaugh better win his dirty championship and just take his shit elsewhere.

What sleaziness? There were cheeseburgers for recruits and this is the second time in 2 months that the NCAA has intentionally leaked select information from an investigation knowing that Michigan can't defend itself. This appears to be in the "notice of allegations" stage which is literally just them telling Michigan "we got this complaint and we're looking into it". That's all the information that's available to anyone, stop with the knee-jerk reactions.

 

[Michchamp]

I highly doubt that. My guess it is because he didn't bow down to them when they were investigating the cheeseburger he bought some kid during COVID (or whatever other thing they were investigating)

It's sketchy as fuck that they can issue public statements like that, without providing evidence or any written documentation of it. And also just toss a bomb like that in the middle of the season.

My initial reaction is college football as a whole is a cesspool and needs to go away... and that has nothing to do with Michigan specifically, or anything we did or didn't do. They've quietly let other schools get away with far worse, and done nothing to them - certainly not trumpeted their investigations DURING the season - and yet they hit us with this shit. Fuck em.

 

[UMRules06]

What sleaziness? There were cheeseburgers for recruits and this is the second time in 2 months that the NCAA has intentionally leaked select information from an investigation knowing that Michigan can't defend itself. This appears to be in the "notice of allegations" stage which is literally just them telling Michigan "we got this complaint and we're looking into it". That's all the information that's available to anyone, stop with the knee-jerk reactions.

I said "if the investigation has merit". If it does then this is absolutely sleazy, and even if this whole thing turns out to be unfounded we're going to still be associated with it regardless.

 

[bphillips4gg]

It's sketchy as fuck that they can issue public statements like that, without providing evidence or any written documentation of it. And also just toss a bomb like that in the middle of the season.

My initial reaction is college football as a whole is a cesspool and needs to go away... and that has nothing to do with Michigan specifically, or anything we did or didn't do. They've quietly let other schools get away with far worse, and done nothing to them - certainly not trumpeted their investigations DURING the season - and yet they hit us with this shit. Fuck em.

I'd like to see the AG for the state tell the NCAA to f off like the Tennessee AG did. The precedent has been set, if you threaten them back they back off. Any mention of any punishment that can even remotely hurt the program financially should be met with a lawsuit.

I don't think it's college football so much as it is the NCAA. As I said before, this is the second time in 3 months that the NCAA has illegally leaked details knowing that Michigan couldn't defend itself. It's long past time for these conferences to tell the NCAA to fuck off.

 

[bphillips4gg]

I said "if the investigation has merit". If it does then this is absolutely sleazy, and even if this whole thing turns out to be unfounded we're going to still be associated with it regardless.

If it has merit it's far from the sleaziest thing that's being done in CFB. Punishment would be warranted, but telling your coach to take a hike because he committed a level 2 violation is asinine. And the fact that the program will still be associated with it is beyond Jim's control if it turns out to be fake.

 

[tomdalton22]

It's sketchy as fuck that they can issue public statements like that, without providing evidence or any written documentation of it. And also just toss a bomb like that in the middle of the season.

My initial reaction is college football as a whole is a cesspool and needs to go away... and that has nothing to do with Michigan specifically, or anything we did or didn't do. They've quietly let other schools get away with far worse, and done nothing to them - certainly not trumpeted their investigations DURING the season - and yet they hit us with this shit. Fuck em.

I still enjoy college football but pretty much treat it like I do any other professional sports league. It's just entertainment for me.

 

[Spartanmack]

I was referring specifically to the rule against advance scouting in person being stupid. It was implemented in 1994 as a way for smaller schools to save money. But the fact that schools are provided the all 22 footage makes me wonder why it's even a necessary rule when you have much more valuable info from that.

I don't disagree that there's and advantage if they had someone recording signs. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate that's what they're being charged with but I also have no idea what other reason you'd have for sending someone to scout in person for either unless their sole job was to watch the signs, try to figure them out without recording, then report back. In that case the advance scouting would be a violation, likely level 2, but the sign stealing would not be.

Patriots fan explained to me they used to have a guy w/ photographic memory live- scout and figure out/steal signs then after he died they started surreptitiously recording opponents. Apparently in the NFL the latter is illegal, the former is not. At the NCAA level, I agree, I don?t see the point of live scouting if you?re not trying to steal signs. Either way, I think we can agree it?s just another indication of how little regard harbaugh has for the rules and what a slimeball he is and what?s dirty program he runs. Doesn?t sound like we?ll know if this gets elevated to an actual finding/charge for a while.

 

[UMRules06]

If it has merit it's far from the sleaziest thing that's being done in CFB. Punishment would be warranted, but telling your coach to take a hike because he committed a level 2 violation is asinine. And the fact that the program will still be associated with it is beyond Jim's control if it turns out to be fake.

You can downplay it by saying it's only a level 2 violation and others have done "sleazier stuff", but it's still flat out cheating and scummy if it turns out to be true IMO. You know for damn sure if this was Ryan Day who was accused of this you'd be all over him saying that he's a POS. It isn't just these allegations leading me to conclude I'd prefer Jim to leave, but he's flirted with it the past two years. That has not sat well with me.

How do I know our wins over OSU the last couple years are legitimate now? Maybe the reason we got our asses kicked by TCU is because we didn't have our little spies at their practices? It raises a lot of questions.

Let's see how it shakes out though I suppose. I can admit it was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction at first when I posted.

 

[bphillips4gg]

You can downplay it by saying it's only a level 2 violation and others have done "sleazier stuff", but it's still flat out cheating and scummy if it turns out to be true IMO. You know for damn sure if this was Ryan Day who was accused of this you'd be all over him saying that he's a POS. It isn't just these allegations leading me to conclude I'd prefer Jim to leave, but he's flirted with it the past two years. That has not sat well with me.

How do I know our wins over OSU the last couple years are legitimate now? Maybe the reason we got our asses kicked by TCU is because we didn't have our little spies at their practices? It raises a lot of questions.

Let's see how it shakes out though I suppose. I can admit it was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction at first when I posted.

Just wait for it to play out. I wouldn't but all over Day, Franklin or anyone else based on what we have heard now. We're most likely not going to get any updates on this for at least 3 months (the NCAA has 90 days to share their findings with the school) and even then there's still a good probability that this amounts to nothing.

I can't help you with your feelings towards Jim looking at the NFL. Mainly because I wouldn't fault anyone who looked for different employment after having their pay cut in half and very publicly being told that their employer had lost faith in them. What I will ask is who you would like to see replace Jim that is going to continue the success of the program?

Oh, and the loss to TCU was because we spotted them 14 points, took 7 away from ourselves then had the refs take another 7. Pretty hard to overcome 28 points and knowing signs ain't changing that.

 

[Michchamp]

aside from the haters (ie MSU and OSU fans) most people seem to think this is bullshit, and was just whining from Schiano and Ryan Day. They were able to get the NCAA's ear, I guess over the earlier bullshit.

I still don't discount the effect of Harbaugh publicly saying the players need to be paid. You don't call out a cartel like that - which is what the NCAA kinda is now - and get away with it.