Stamkos and Drouin

[kingofdetroit57]

Did you guys see this?

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/1/6/10726040/red-wings-rumors-stamkos-and-drouin-to-detroit

Getting Stamkos would be awesome, but it would cost a lot.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Let me get out the way that I don't think the Lightning will trade either player. Despite their record, Tampa is only two points out of the 8th seed and actually sport a positive goal differential. I think the smartest course would be trying to get better at the deadline rather than go into damage control mode. Yzerman is smart enough to realize that he is closed to contending than rebuilding.

That said, I can't see how the wings could turn down such a deal. The offense needs a huge boost, and Stamkos is one of the best scorers and players in the league. Drouin isn't exciting to me at this point, but he's a reasonable fill in as the Wings will need bodies if they move so many players for Stamkos. The fact that the team would still have so many young players and prospects in the wings makes losing those picks more palatable. Obviously paying anyone 10 million per year is hard to stomach, but the Wings have the money to make it work.

 

[biggunsbob]

Damn you read my mind.. I was thinking with Tampa bay down in the standings that Stamkos may be be available.. The wings have plenty of talent in Grand Rapids.. I say go get him and make a real run at the cup..

 

[biggunsbob]

I changed my mind... this would be highway robbery if Holland agrees to this deal and make the club worse in my opinion..
Stevie trying to fleece his former club..The asking price is way to steep i really hope Holland is not this stupid..
Just my opinion..


Tampa Bay wants these guys..

Gustav Nyquist, a pair of 24-year-old pending restricted free agents in Riley Sheahan and Alexey Marchenko, along with top prospect Anthony Mantha and the Red Wings first-round pick in 2016 and 2017. Stamkos will immediately go back to his center.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Let me get out the way that I don't think the Lightning will trade either player. Despite their record, Tampa is only two points out of the 8th seed and actually sport a positive goal differential. I think the smartest course would be trying to get better at the deadline rather than go into damage control mode. Yzerman is smart enough to realize that he is closed to contending than rebuilding.

That said, I can't see how the wings could turn down such a deal. The offense needs a huge boost, and Stamkos is one of the best scorers and players in the league. Drouin isn't exciting to me at this point, but he's a reasonable fill in as the Wings will need bodies if they move so many players for Stamkos. The fact that the team would still have so many young players and prospects in the wings makes losing those picks more palatable. Obviously paying anyone 10 million per year is hard to stomach, but the Wings have the money to make it work.

So in essence you think Steve Yzerman is dumb. Because, who would let a Top 3 Forward in the NHL just leave without getting compensation. You don't understand that Stamkos won't be on the Lightning after the season ends. Only time to trade him is before the deadline or else the borderline playoff team that has iffy prospects, and no goaltending loses out on its top asset.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

So in essence you think Steve Yzerman is dumb. Because, who would let a Top 3 Forward in the NHL just leave without getting compensation. You don't understand that Stamkos won't be on the Lightning after the season ends. Only time to trade him is before the deadline or else the borderline playoff team that has iffy prospects, and no goaltending loses out on its top asset.

Whoa, slow down. I don't think Yzerman is dumb at all. I just think Tampa is a better team than their record indicates (I would argue the Wings are worse than their record, too, but that's not really the point). I think a small shakeup in Tampa, adding a couple solid but short-term pieces could improve the morale and production. And just a little bit of improvement in the mood of the locker room could turn that team back into the contender everyone thought they would be.

If Stamkos wants out because he hates Tampa, then obviously you trade him because he won't re-sign with you. If he wants out because he wants 12 million per year, then move him because nobody is worth that in the NHL. But if he just wants out because the team is having a down year... well it's probably better to prove to him that the team can contend and keep him.

I'm simply not of the opinion that Stamkos hates the city of Tampa or the organization. I also don't think he's requesting an outlandish deal that he wouldn't get anywhere else. I think the two sides just want different things. Yzerman wants him to take less in order to build the team around him. Stamkos wants the organization to make it work like Washington or Chicago. Stamkos is wisely holding his ground because he has the leverage now. He could very much want to stay, but just isn't going to take less than he's worth.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

I changed my mind... this would be highway robbery if Holland agrees to this deal and make the club worse in my opinion..
Stevie trying to fleece his former club..The asking price is way to steep i really hope Holland is not this stupid..
Just my opinion..


Tampa Bay wants these guys..

Gustav Nyquist, a pair of 24-year-old pending restricted free agents in Riley Sheahan and Alexey Marchenko, along with top prospect Anthony Mantha and the Red Wings first-round pick in 2016 and 2017. Stamkos will immediately go back to his center.

I think Stamkos would immediately be the best player on our team, and the true volume scoring threat that the team is missing right now. We have a lot of depth, and we have several really good, well-rounded players. But we don't have anybody that can just break defenses the way Stamkos can.

Stamkos centering a line with Zetterberg and Abdelkader would be almost unfair. Drouin takes a spot on one of the bottom lines vacated by Sheahan. So in the short term, I don't see how the team is any worse. Stamkos is better than Nyquist, and Drouin is good enough not to drop off much from Sheahan.

Long term depends on development. If Drouin can be coached up to even get close to the level of play expected when he was drafted, this would be a no-brainer for the Wings. If we get an All-Star caliber player out of Mantha and two picks, that's a win. We have enough depth already that a few picks amounting to nothing doesn't hurt. And it's not like the team has been desperately depending on first round picks to fill holes up to this point.

But I do get it. That would be a huge, blockbuster sized trade. If Mantha ever turned into the 30-40 goal scorer he can be, I would be kicking myself. If Nyquist suddenly turned into the superstar that his rookie run made look possible, I would be livid to have let him go. And those first rounders could be anything, even superstars themselves. But a superstar in the hand is worth two in the bush. And if this trade really did pick up steam, I'd guess Holland talks down one of those first rounders to a second, or keeps Sheahan or Marchenko. It's close enough that I'd be for it, and even little moves in our direction would make me feel great.

 

[biggunsbob]

I think Stamkos would immediately be the best player on our team, and the true volume scoring threat that the team is missing right now. We have a lot of depth, and we have several really good, well-rounded players. But we don't have anybody that can just break defenses the way Stamkos can.

Stamkos centering a line with Zetterberg and Abdelkader would be almost unfair. Drouin takes a spot on one of the bottom lines vacated by Sheahan. So in the short term, I don't see how the team is any worse. Stamkos is better than Nyquist, and Drouin is good enough not to drop off much from Sheahan.

Long term depends on development. If Drouin can be coached up to even get close to the level of play expected when he was drafted, this would be a no-brainer for the Wings. If we get an All-Star caliber player out of Mantha and two picks, that's a win. We have enough depth already that a few picks amounting to nothing doesn't hurt. And it's not like the team has been desperately depending on first round picks to fill holes up to this point.

I am

But I do get it. That would be a huge, blockbuster sized trade. If Mantha ever turned into the 30-40 goal scorer he can be, I would be kicking myself. If Nyquist suddenly turned into the superstar that his rookie run made look possible, I would be livid to have let him go. And those first rounders could be anything, even superstars themselves. But a superstar in the hand is worth two in the bush. And if this trade really did pick up steam, I'd guess Holland talks down one of those first rounders to a second, or keeps Sheahan or Marchenko. It's close enough that I'd be for it, and even little moves in our direction would make me feel great.

I am not adversed to going after Stamkos because I have been saying as long as I can remember that we need a prolific goal scorer. I just think that the asking price above is to steep. Hopefully Holland can talk him down a bit. Plus this does nothing to help the
defense. Zetterberg and PD only have a few seasons left so depth is important..

 

[biggunsbob]

As the article says we do save a ton of money next season if we do not re-sign Kyle Quincey. Howard may have to be part of a deal because there are a ton of decisions to be made soon.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

The money side is tough, no matter what. And I'm totally with you that the defense needs to get a lot better if the team has plans on consistently contending. But I actually think a lot of that defense needs to come from the forwards. The young guys really aren't two-way players for the most part. Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkinnen, and all the true rookies aren't sound defensive players. They focus on getting the puck up the ice and taking shots, but most are pedestrian at best in getting back and getting in passing/shooting lanes.

 

[jdeb]

Man, that is a lot to give up but probably puts us in the Cup consideration.

"The price for Stamkos and Drouin will be steep ? sniper Gustav Nyquist, a pair of 24-year-old pending restricted free agents in Riley Sheahan and Alexey Marchenko, along with top prospect Anthony Mantha and the Red Wings first-round pick in 2016 and 2017."

 

[tbone413]

As tempting as this trade would be - I say No Thanks for a few reasons...

1. Wings need a top 2 Defenseman. That is their number 1 need (by a large margin) they cant keep throwing Smith/Kindl/Marchenko out there...its just not realistic. If the Wings are going to part with a Kings ransom of Players/Prospects, id want it to be for a top 5 Defenseman, rather than a top 5 Center...

2. The price is pretty damn high. Even for Stamkos and Drouin.

Lets just assume Drouin = Mantha (or pretty close). That means the wings will be trading Nyquist, Sheahan, Marchenko and 2 First round picks for Stamkos.

Stamkos outproduces Nyquist and Sheahan combined. (its close tho).
Marchenko is a young, but promising D man who I project will be a top 4 paring sometime in the next 3 years.

Then the Kicker - 2 First round picks. In the NHL, 1st round picks are worth their weight in gold.
The last three Wings 1st Round Picks: Svechnikov, Larkin, Mantha.

Would I want to give up two chances at drafting a cornerstone of the franchise, in addition to everything else? I dont know...

Also - what are the chances of Stamkos being signed to an extension before the end of the year? It doesnt seem likely...in theory the Wings could just bide their time and sign him to a contract this offseason. Not likely (or recommended IMO), but still - it should be considered when giving up the haul asked.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

As tempting as this trade would be - I say No Thanks for a few reasons...

1. Wings need a top 2 Defenseman. That is their number 1 need (by a large margin) they cant keep throwing Smith/Kindl/Marchenko out there...its just not realistic. If the Wings are going to part with a Kings ransom of Players/Prospects, id want it to be for a top 5 Defenseman, rather than a top 5 Center...

2. The price is pretty damn high. Even for Stamkos and Drouin.

Lets just assume Drouin = Mantha (or pretty close). That means the wings will be trading Nyquist, Sheahan, Marchenko and 2 First round picks for Stamkos.

Stamkos outproduces Nyquist and Sheahan combined. (its close tho).
Marchenko is a young, but promising D man who I project will be a top 4 paring sometime in the next 3 years.

Then the Kicker - 2 First round picks. In the NHL, 1st round picks are worth their weight in gold.
The last three Wings 1st Round Picks: Svechnikov, Larkin, Mantha.

Would I want to give up two chances at drafting a cornerstone of the franchise, in addition to everything else? I dont know...

Also - what are the chances of Stamkos being signed to an extension before the end of the year? It doesnt seem likely...in theory the Wings could just bide their time and sign him to a contract this offseason. Not likely (or recommended IMO), but still - it should be considered when giving up the haul asked.

In the trade, he would sign extension before being traded. Id rather have a top 5 Dman too, but they aren't available.

Stamkos is probably the 3rd or 4th best player in hockey. Who knows if we would actually give all of that up.

However, we have to move some of these young guys at some point. We have too many.

 

[tbone413]

In the trade, he would sign extension before being traded. Id rather have a top 5 Dman too, but they aren't available.

Stamkos is probably the 3rd or 4th best player in hockey. Who knows if we would actually give all of that up.

However, we have to move some of these young guys at some point. We have too many.

Ya I know he would sign an extension prior to being traded. If that wasnt the case, it wouldnt even be a discussion, nobody would give up all that for a potential rental, regardless of who it is.

But I disagree that a top D-man isnt available. While they will almost never hit Free Agency, anyone can be had via a trade - especially one of this magnitude (essentially 3 starters and top 3 prospects).

I agree completely that we have a lot of young talent, and some of it will need to be traded. I am fine with that. Id just rather it be for a defenseman haha. Even if its not a top 5 guy in the league (like Stamkos is at his position), you could easily get a top pairing guy to help the team out.

This is just my opinion. Like I said, I wouldnt crucify Holland for making the trade, because Stamkos is an awesome, young player. But I just think the assets being given up could be 'spent' better.

I personally think the odds of this happening are slim to none, I havent really heard any credibility to this rumor, sounds like its just media talking. But thats okay - fun to discuss!

 

[dubbsco]

I'm a big fan of Gus, but he's a ghost in the playoffs. Look at Stamkos in the playoffs. He's a freaking beast, and he's still really young.

Sheahan- He's meh. Not bad. Wouldn't miss him for a second if he left.

Don't know much about the prospects and much about Drouin.

But I'd do this trade. Hurts you in 3-4 years, but if you have the chance to win the cup now and stack a lineup with Stamkos, do it.