The Official Ohio* vs ][V][ichigan (End of Hoke Era) Game Thread

[bamf_16]

speaking of dicks...even bamfs dick could have won more games than denard.

Um... what?

 

[josh200612]

Is mhughes mqbu? Every time I've encountered a mhughes onlines they have been pricks.

 

[bamf_16]

Is mhughes mqbu? Every time I've encountered a mhughes onlines they have been pricks.

No idea.

It's just a pain in the ass when guys like him do the shit they do. They change the target in lines of conversation.

After last year's OSU game he was pushing for Shane Morris to be UM's starting QB going into 2014, with this garbage about "kick returners" playing QB. When I and others jumped down his throat for wanting to bench Gardner for Morris after Gardner's 2013 season and Morris being unimpressive in his only start, I think he too saw the stupidity in this and he changed the narrative to something like, "Michigan isn't going to win the Big Ten this year so Morris should get experience." Then when he was told that that idea was dumb, he waited until Gardner made a dumb throw or played a bad game (which happened pretty damn often this year!) and tried to taunt us by trying to again turn the narrative into those of us who disagreed with his him being the equivalent of claiming that Gardner was a great QB, which of course is bull shit too. So not supporting the notion of benching the 5th year senior with the two best passing games in school history for the sophomore with one career start and no TD passes somehow equates to thinking the 5th year QB is awesome.

See what he's doing?

My personal favorite is his claim that Michigan lost three straight games to "mediocre" teams in 2010 when trying to trash Denard Robinson as a QB. They lost to the #17 team, the #15, and PSU on the road, giving up 34, 38, and 41 points respectively. When this was presented to him, he started arguing over his interpretation and definition of the word "mediocre." Michigan State was 17th when they came to AA and finished the season 10-2. Iowa was 15th but his reply was that since they finished in the middle of their conference division, that makes them mediocre. (So by his logic, Auburn is a mediocre team). Many "middle of the road teams in their division" are mediocre, but many are not. When you are lazy and/or stupid, you make false absolutes and then get upset when others don't see it that way. PSU sucked that year and that loss is seen by many as the final straw for RR and his "defense."

I love football. I love Michigan football. I love talking about them, discussing them, etc. But I absolutely HATE when kids try to move to the adult table, can't keep up, and then try to nitpick with their own personal interpretations of words and faulty equivalencies when they don't get their way.

(My newest entertainment option is his list of bullshit posts accusing others of boosting their post totals. LOVE it!)

 

[mhughes0021]

No idea.

It's just a pain in the ass when guys like him do the shit they do. They change the target in lines of conversation.

After last year's OSU game he was pushing for Shane Morris to be UM's starting QB going into 2014, with this garbage about "kick returners" playing QB. When I and others jumped down his throat for wanting to bench Gardner for Morris after Gardner's 2013 season and Morris being unimpressive in his only start, I think he too saw the stupidity in this and he changed the narrative to something like, "Michigan isn't going to win the Big Ten this year so Morris should get experience." Then when he was told that that idea was dumb, he waited until Gardner made a dumb throw or played a bad game (which happened pretty damn often this year!) and tried to taunt us by trying to again turn the narrative into those of us who disagreed with his him being the equivalent of claiming that Gardner was a great QB, which of course is bull shit too. So not supporting the notion of benching the 5th year senior with the two best passing games in school history for the sophomore with one career start and no TD passes somehow equates to thinking the 5th year QB is awesome.

See what he's doing?

My personal favorite is his claim that Michigan lost three straight games to "mediocre" teams in 2010 when trying to trash Denard Robinson as a QB. They lost to the #17 team, the #15, and PSU on the road, giving up 34, 38, and 41 points respectively. When this was presented to him, he started arguing over his interpretation and definition of the word "mediocre." Michigan State was 17th when they came to AA and finished the season 10-2. Iowa was 15th but his reply was that since they finished in the middle of their conference division, that makes them mediocre. (So by his logic, Auburn is a mediocre team). Many "middle of the road teams in their division" are mediocre, but many are not. When you are lazy and/or stupid, you make false absolutes and then get upset when others don't see it that way. PSU sucked that year and that loss is seen by many as the final straw for RR and his "defense."

I love football. I love Michigan football. I love talking about them, discussing them, etc. But I absolutely HATE when kids try to move to the adult table, can't keep up, and then try to nitpick with their own personal interpretations of words and faulty equivalencies when they don't get their way.

(My newest entertainment option is his list of bullshit posts accusing others of boosting their post totals. LOVE it!)

you are very good at recapping things ive said over the past year....but that's about all you do well. Yes, I said about a year ago that DG would lead this team nowhere...and I was right. Homers will be homers and I get that....but if you truly know anything about football then you would have agreed with me then. Instead you slowly backtrack so it makes it look like you knew DG wasn't very good. You even list #2 on your "cant wait for list" to have a qb first and athlete 2nd.....but whenever I say that im just being racist lol.

Then you try to compare the 2012 Iowa team to the 2014 auburn tigers. Ok....so I know you are very good at attention to detail because you remember a lot. But then when you try to nitpick others you leave a lot of major details out that you know we said. Like when I stated that most teams in the middle of the pack are typically average teams....I CLEARLY said "not from the SEC" then you go ahead and use an SEC team as an example just to prove some dumb point. I get you love football...I understand you know a lot about the small nuances of the game which is great for game threads. But you lose all credibility from me when you try to compare a middle of the pack iowa team to an auburn. Im sure you don't care what I think...but its pretty clear at that point that your just being a dick.

In your big long post you still fail to disprove anything I said...what exactly do I say that's wrong other than its something homers don't approve of hearing? Denard wasn't a very good qb. DG wasn't even close to a good qb. And Michigan wont be good (no team for that matter) without a good qb in the college game. Now a lot of people call me a "troll" for my viewpoints so ill enlighten you on what a troll actually is. A troll sees something happen then goes somewhere they don't belong to shove it in that groups faces. How do I differ?...in DGs case ive had the same viewpoint on him since his first year starting. You even elude to that in your post when I used to always say "that's what happens when you play a WR at qb." When I have that opinion right off the bat.....you would want me to change my opinion just because a bunch of homers don't like it? So OFCOURSE im going to say "I told you so" when he fumbles games away....hes done it his entire career.

Denard....its funny when people try to rationalize how good or bad a qb is and they have to bring up the defense. Oddly enough the defense isn't on the field when the offense plays. The defense has no bearing on denard over throwing a pass 10 yards over someones head right into the awaiting arms of a defender. The do the same thing when I say Stafford isn't playing well. I can how them his qbr, qb rating, comp %, w/l record, are all average to bad...but I always get the defense excuse. Then when the defense plays well....its another excuse. Good qbs don't make excuses..they just win.

Rarely do I refer to post count. But I never heard of this douche or seen him post before and the first time I do its one of those "yaaaa man....youre a dick...go eat one" posts...like some fucking nerd sitting in the back when his tougher friend is trying to start shit. No attempt to converse or give his viewpoint. Just a jab. Therefor he deserves nothing from me but to discredit him and his opinion.

 

[bamf_16]

you are very good at recapping things ive said over the past year....but that's about all you do well. Yes, I said about a year ago that DG would lead this team nowhere...and I was right. Homers will be homers and I get that....but if you truly know anything about football then you would have agreed with me then. Instead you slowly backtrack so it makes it look like you knew DG wasn't very good. You even list #2 on your "cant wait for list" to have a qb first and athlete 2nd.....but whenever I say that im just being racist lol.

Then you try to compare the 2012 Iowa team to the 2014 auburn tigers. Ok....so I know you are very good at attention to detail because you remember a lot. But then when you try to nitpick others you leave a lot of major details out that you know we said. Like when I stated that most teams in the middle of the pack are typically average teams....I CLEARLY said "not from the SEC" then you go ahead and use an SEC team as an example just to prove some dumb point. I get you love football...I understand you know a lot about the small nuances of the game which is great for game threads. But you lose all credibility from me when you try to compare a middle of the pack iowa team to an auburn. Im sure you don't care what I think...but its pretty clear at that point that your just being a dick.

In your big long post you still fail to disprove anything I said...what exactly do I say that's wrong other than its something homers don't approve of hearing? Denard wasn't a very good qb. DG wasn't even close to a good qb. And Michigan wont be good (no team for that matter) without a good qb in the college game. Now a lot of people call me a "troll" for my viewpoints so ill enlighten you on what a troll actually is. A troll sees something happen then goes somewhere they don't belong to shove it in that groups faces. How do I differ?...in DGs case ive had the same viewpoint on him since his first year starting. You even elude to that in your post when I used to always say "that's what happens when you play a WR at qb." When I have that opinion right off the bat.....you would want me to change my opinion just because a bunch of homers don't like it? So OFCOURSE im going to say "I told you so" when he fumbles games away....hes done it his entire career.

Denard....its funny when people try to rationalize how good or bad a qb is and they have to bring up the defense. Oddly enough the defense isn't on the field when the offense plays. The defense has no bearing on denard over throwing a pass 10 yards over someones head right into the awaiting arms of a defender. The do the same thing when I say Stafford isn't playing well. I can how them his qbr, qb rating, comp %, w/l record, are all average to bad...but I always get the defense excuse. Then when the defense plays well....its another excuse. Good qbs don't make excuses..they just win.

Rarely do I refer to post count. But I never heard of this douche or seen him post before and the first time I do its one of those "yaaaa man....youre a dick...go eat one" posts...like some fucking nerd sitting in the back when his tougher friend is trying to start shit. No attempt to converse or give his viewpoint. Just a jab. Therefor he deserves nothing from me but to discredit him and his opinion.

Oh my God, it just doesn't end with you. Yes, you said DG would lead this team nowhere. You were right about that. But you used it as evidence to prove what was your PRIMARY point that Shane Morris should be the 2014 starting QB, which was, is, and ever shall be a pretty fucking stupid idea, fucking stupid enough to make you deserving of every bit of ridicule and criticism you earned, given what Gardner did in 2013, what Morris did in his one start, and even with Gardner's failures this year, proven to be EVEN DUMBER when seeing what Morris did.

And yet others are the ones who leave things out.

I'll give you the SEC thing. You typed,

"we were 5-0 and in the top 10 if I can recall?....8 maybe? or that could have been a different year. So then theres 3 teams ranked lower than us. And I believe 1 ranked higher. And we were all in the same division. That's 5 b1G teams....now call me crazy....but those polls are stupid if they thought 5 teams not in the SEC should all be ranked in the top 20. So that's how I justify calling them mediocre b1g teams eventhough they were technically nationally ranked. If youre middle of the pack in the b1g youre typically a pretty average team."

I thought you meant SEC in the 2010 season, since the conversation was in regards to the 2010 season. Read back over this...I'm not so sure you were as "clear" you think. But again, I'll give you that.

You love simple, absolute statements from locker room posters or sporting goods commercials. "Good qbs don't make excuses..they just win."

Ok then. Denard Robinson won 11 games and a BCS Bowl in 2011. How many Michigan QBs have won 11 games and a BCS Bowl in a season?

See, football, as with life in general, is never as simple as black and white and empty platitudes that sound good in the minds of simpletons. Try it sometime. Expand your thought processes, explore different ideas. You may just find that you like it.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I have to be honest not that I want to but 'hughes speaks his mind, that's obvious. But then it seems the whole site gets an "attack" text and people coming out of nowhere to slam him. He slams back and gets labeled with starting it first. I don't get it.

 

[mhughes0021]

Oh my God, it just doesn't end with you. Yes, you said DG would lead this team nowhere. You were right about that. But you used it as evidence to prove what was your PRIMARY point that Shane Morris should be the 2014 starting QB, which was, is, and ever shall be a pretty fucking stupid idea, fucking stupid enough to make you deserving of every bit of ridicule and criticism you earned, given what Gardner did in 2013, what Morris did in his one start, and even with Gardner's failures this year, proven to be EVEN DUMBER when seeing what Morris did.

And yet others are the ones who leave things out.

I'll give you the SEC thing. You typed,

"we were 5-0 and in the top 10 if I can recall?....8 maybe? or that could have been a different year. So then theres 3 teams ranked lower than us. And I believe 1 ranked higher. And we were all in the same division. That's 5 b1G teams....now call me crazy....but those polls are stupid if they thought 5 teams not in the SEC should all be ranked in the top 20. So that's how I justify calling them mediocre b1g teams eventhough they were technically nationally ranked. If youre middle of the pack in the b1g youre typically a pretty average team."

I thought you meant SEC in the 2010 season, since the conversation was in regards to the 2010 season. Read back over this...I'm not so sure you were as "clear" you think. But again, I'll give you that.

You love simple, absolute statements from locker room posters or sporting goods commercials. "Good qbs don't make excuses..they just win."

Ok then. Denard Robinson won 11 games and a BCS Bowl in 2011. How many Michigan QBs have won 11 games and a BCS Bowl in a season?

See, football, as with life in general, is never as simple as black and white and empty platitudes that sound good in the minds of simpletons. Try it sometime. Expand your thought processes, explore different ideas. You may just find that you like it.

I agree...shane was awful. That's another thing youll get out of me....I don't make up shit or start to say crazy stuff to try to defend my viewpoints. Shane sucked...period....notice I don't blame the defense or the shitty oline or the crappy run game or the weather or vortex of the sun....he sucked. I still contend getting him experience and seeing if he was the qb of the future was more important than DG getting us 6 wins. But at that point Hoke and co. realized he was fighting for his job and DG gave him the best chance of being employed longer. IfFFFFffffff we had a stable coaching staff in place that knew they were staying....I think more often than not they play the qb that they recruited and they thought was going to be their future. Hokes decision resulted in neither happening....DG sucked and we won 6 games and now Shanes future is in doubt. Now lets look forward....theres going to be a new coaching staff, that shane wasn't recruited by, a new system, and none of the qbs on our roster have any in game experience worth mentioning. It will be a disaster....book it....unless the coach we bring in does a masterful job at installing a system and getting ***insert inexperienced qb name here*** on track in 1 off season. If were over .500 next year that coach deserves coach of the year.

 

[bamf_16]

I agree...shane was awful. That's another thing youll get out of me....I don't make up shit or start to say crazy stuff to try to defend my viewpoints. Shane sucked...period....notice I don't blame the defense or the shitty oline or the crappy run game or the weather or vortex of the sun....he sucked. I still contend getting him experience and seeing if he was the qb of the future was more important than DG getting us 6 wins. But at that point Hoke and co. realized he was fighting for his job and DG gave him the best chance of being employed longer. IfFFFFffffff we had a stable coaching staff in place that knew they were staying....I think more often than not they play the qb that they recruited and they thought was going to be their future. Hokes decision resulted in neither happening....DG sucked and we won 6 games and now Shanes future is in doubt. Now lets look forward....theres going to be a new coaching staff, that shane wasn't recruited by, a new system, and none of the qbs on our roster have any in game experience worth mentioning. It will be a disaster....book it....unless the coach we bring in does a masterful job at installing a system and getting ***insert inexperienced qb name here*** on track in 1 off season. If were over .500 next year that coach deserves coach of the year.

So it's not acceptable to you to try to analyze the play of the QB and the factors that contribute to it? We're going to just look at final scores and see about wins?

Ok.

Denard Robinson is the only QB in Michigan history to win 11 games and a BCS Bowl in the same season. Brady never did it. Henson never did it. Henne never did it. Navarre never did it.

But "Fuck Denard", right?

 

[gobluebigjon]

I have to be honest not that I want to but 'hughes speaks his mind, that's obvious. But then it seems the whole site gets an "attack" text and people coming out of nowhere to slam him. He slams back and gets labeled with starting it first. I don't get it.

When someone says stupid shit like fuck gardner and fuck denard because the coaching staff hasn't recruited better options they deserve to be attacked.
Hard to blame bad recruiting/coaching on the players.

 

[dubbsco]

That 11 win season was a bit of a mirage. Played one ranked team at home. Beat a very average Va Tech team in the Sugar Bowl, the team didn't even win the conference. Let's be honest, MSU deserved to go over Michigan, but Michigan got in because of their name.

Denard was great running the ball in 2011, but pretty mediocre through the air. Henne's team was one stupid penalty away from getting them to the national title, and he led them with a historic win in 2006 at #2 ND.

I like Denard a lot, but in the annals of Michigan lore, he's a good QB, sometimes bordering on great, nothing more. He brought us more highlights than actual stuff (BCS games that aren't Rose or National Title were bleh).

 

[Mitchrapp]

When someone says stupid shit like fuck gardner and fuck denard because the coaching staff hasn't recruited better options they deserve to be attacked.
Hard to blame bad recruiting/coaching on the players.

I guess I don't get why saying they were bad is a bad thing? They certainly weren't good..It's not about that anyways, you personally attack (mind you I don't have a problem with that) so he personally attacks you and suddenly he's the dick that's attacking everyone? Zero sense.

 

[gobluebigjon]

Saying they were bad is not bad at all. They often times were. To say fuck them is too much. They were the best options UM had. Blame the coaching staffs, not the players.

 

[mhughes0021]

When someone says stupid shit like fuck gardner and fuck denard because the coaching staff hasn't recruited better options they deserve to be attacked.
Hard to blame bad recruiting/coaching on the players.

awwww you took that much offense to me saying fuck off to an era of qbs that cant play qb? really? How cute! Or you just like jumping in and ganging up on an easy target that actually calls it like it is. If you don't think the qb position needs to improve from what it has been over the last 10 years then youre not worth thee effort it takes my fingers to type. Sure I can blame the coaches for not being able to recruit better...and I have. But we were talking about their play on the field....denard was good for a sportscenter top 10 here n there. DG was good for nothing...

The fan base has lowered its expectations of what "good" is....shit I remember when they were all excited for tate forcier to come here lol.

 

[mhughes0021]

Saying they were bad is not bad at all. They often times were. To say fuck them is too much. They were the best options UM had. Blame the coaching staffs, not the players.

youre obviously not on this board much if you think saying "fuck off" is over the line. I apologize for my fowl language.

 

[gobluebigjon]

I don't care about the language, it's garbage to blame those 2 for being put in a position to fail.

 

[mhughes0021]

I don't care about the language, it's garbage to blame those 2 for being put in a position to fail.

ok...and I used that exact reasoning why DG shouldn't start this year. He wasn't recruited by nuss or hoke, wasn't a very good fit for their system, and was set up to fail. But in response to that...all I got was...."but but but hes a senior!" you guys talk out of both sides of your ass....

 

[gobluebigjon]

I really doubt I said that at any time. Garder was the best option. It isn't his fault, nor was it Denards.

 

[Mitchrapp]

So it wasn't there fault they still weren't good.

 

[bamf_16]

Disagree....if a player is not performing to their potential, they should be criticized.

Devin Gardner deserves significant criticism for the decline in his performance. He and the fans shouldn't just get to say, "not his fault, it's someone else's fault for not having someone else better on the team."

 

[Gulo Blue]

This part of the discussion, to me, is under the same umbrella as the line of thinking where you don't boo the players.