The Official Ohio* vs ][V][ichigan (End of Hoke Era) Game Thread

[gobluebigjon]

Hoke had 3+ years to find a pro style qb who was a better fit than Gardner who was brought in to run RR's offense. Gardner maybe could have been a good wr but he was never going to be a pro style qb.
It is fair to criticize him for dumb mistakes and he made his fair share. But to blame the square peg someome else is trying to shove into a round hole is wrong. He was never going to be the answer and that is something that should have been addressed a long time ago. From what was shown this year, I don't see it getting any better in the near future. I hope I am wrong, but I see no reason to think otherwise.

 

[bamf_16]

Hoke had 3+ years to find a pro style qb who was a better fit than Gardner who was brought in to run RR's offense. Gardner maybe could have been a good wr but he was never going to be a pro style qb.
It is fair to criticize him for dumb mistakes and he made his fair share. But to blame the square peg someome else is trying to shove into a round hole is wrong. He was never going to be the answer and that is something that should have been addressed a long time ago. From what was shown this year, I don't see it getting any better in the near future. I hope I am wrong, but I see no reason to think otherwise.

He did pretty darn well in his first year as a starting QB all things considered.

I think (as did a lot of other fans) that the changes Nuss tried to implement would allow Gardner to do what he does, and do it better. By identifying the Mike backer, he would have a better idea of the protection his OL was going to try, he could identify from where the pressure was coming, and could know presnap what his escape route was going to be instead of having to react to it. That would (in theory) give him another split second to keep his eyes downfield and maybe allow him to complete a pass instead of having to run and risk a hit.

Instead, all that seems to have made him think more than he was comfortable doing, since much of what he'd done well in his HS spread offense was more reacting (or on a zone read run, only having to read the actions of one defender) than reading. Did he paralyze himself by analyzing defenses? Only he can answer that.

But let's not forget that this wasn't his first year as a starting QB. He started the entire 2013 season and he has the two highest passing yardage totals in Michigan history, running an offense more similar to the '14 offense than the '10 offense. He'll forever be criticized for being turnover prone, and the hope was that what Nuss would teach him for '14 would help cut those down.

Instead, he regressed in every aspect of the game. I think the player deserves more blame than a lot want to give him. This isn't as "square peg round hole" as some would like to think. I wish I knew more about what happened at practice, in the film room, and in Gardner's own head. But we'll never know unless he wants to divulge that information. How much did the presnap thinking/reading mess with his comfort level? Was he being criticized behind the scenes for running when receivers were open? Unfortunately, we'll never know.

 

[gobluebigjon]

He was a threat last year to run, that may have helped his passing this year, who knows. This year they wanted to keep him in the pocket, and that was never going to be his game. I understand the need to keep your qb healthy, but he was never going to be a pocket passer.

 

[mhughes0021]

Hoke had 3+ years to find a pro style qb who was a better fit than Gardner who was brought in to run RR's offense. Gardner maybe could have been a good wr but he was never going to be a pro style qb.
It is fair to criticize him for dumb mistakes and he made his fair share. But to blame the square peg someome else is trying to shove into a round hole is wrong. He was never going to be the answer and that is something that should have been addressed a long time ago. From what was shown this year, I don't see it getting any better in the near future. I hope I am wrong, but I see no reason to think otherwise.

I knew if I kept this debate up long enough people would start to make my point for me.

 

[bamf_16]

He was a threat last year to run, that may have helped his passing this year, who knows. This year they wanted to keep him in the pocket, and that was never going to be his game. I understand the need to keep your qb healthy, but he was never going to be a pocket passer.

Jeez....the list of QBs whose games have been hurt because they were told to be pocket passers and ignore the threat of their legs is impressive.

Just think what the careers of Kordell Stewart and Donovan McNabb could have been if they'd been allowed to do more with their feet instead of being told by old crotchety Offensive Coordinators to stay in the pocket.

 

[bamf_16]

I knew if I kept this debate up long enough people would start to make my point for me.

Yep. You were right all along. :bs:

Again, you're the guy who on the sunny day says, "It's going to rain." Then four days later on a rainy day says, "told you."

Sorry man, no amount of whitewashing is going to cover the level of stupidity you showed when before the season even started arguing for Morris to start over Gardner. And that's what you are. You are a stupid human being.

And I'm out. Have fun with whatever reply you deem necessary. Not going to touch it.

 

[gobluebigjon]

Jeez....the list of QBs whose games have been hurt because they were told to be pocket passers and ignore the threat of their legs is impressive.

Just think what the careers of Kordell Stewart and Donovan McNabb could have been if they'd been allowed to do more with their feet instead of being told by old crotchety Offensive Coordinators to stay in the pocket.

RG3 is doing well as a pocket qb. Vince Young turned out to be a great one as well. Pat White had a solid NFL career. Shall I go on?

 

[dubbsco]

Yes, keep going.

RG3 has had some rough luck with injuries.

Vince Young had some serious demons he was battling with.

Pat White is a horrible example. He averaged like 200 passing attempts a year. He was Denard before Denard.

Plenty of starting QBs are dual threats that don't have to have blazing speed. Romo, Kaepernick, Luck, Big Ben, Rodgers, Tannehill. Those guys all make plays with their feet. You don't have to be a stand still rock.

 

[gobluebigjon]

Tebow, Dennis Dixon, Josh Harris and those are just guys I know were drafted as running qbs, off the top of my head. I am sure if I actually cared to put much thought into it, I could find plenty more. Some running qb's can be more of pocket passers, some can't.

Romo, did not run much in college, nor did Big Ben or Tannehill. Rodgers did sparingly. They were all pocket passers in college. Kaepernick and Luck are the only 2 you named that were actually somewhat running qbs and I doubt Luck ever had more than 100 rushes in a single year, although I could be wrong about that.

 

[dubbsco]

Ben didn't run a ton in college, but he was impossible to bring down. I watched plenty of him at Miami OH. He made guys look silly when they got into the pocket.

Luck ran plenty in college.

 

[tomdalton22]

Tebow, Dennis Dixon, Josh Harris and those are just guys I know were drafted as running qbs, off the top of my head. I am sure if I actually cared to put much thought into it, I could find plenty more. Some running qb's can be more of pocket passers, some can't.

Romo, did not run much in college, nor did Big Ben or Tannehill. Rodgers did sparingly. They were all pocket passers in college. Kaepernick and Luck are the only 2 you named that were actually somewhat running qbs and I doubt Luck ever had more than 100 rushes in a single year, although I could be wrong about that.

Tannehill may be the most interesting NFL QB. He was a WR in college for 2 years then moved to QB. While he was athletic he really didn't run the ball much in college when he played QB. He only had 115 rushing attempts in college and only averaged 3.2 yards per rush.

In College Kaepernick ran the ball 600 times and only threw the ball 740 times. While he has a gun for an arm he has not progressed as a passer. It seems that Harbaugh has limited his running too much and is trying to make him a pocket passer. He is actually being pretty stubborn about it.

Luck only ran the ball 163 times in 3 seasons. He attempted 1064 passes. He was a pocket passer that had the ability to run.

 

[mhughes0021]

Wilson is the only "running qb" that is currently successful. Tannehill has a future cause of how well him and lazor seem to be clicking. Cams, Kaeps and Rg3s of the world are on their last legs and probably would do their franchises a favor if they weren't in the league anymore.

If you want to be a good "running" qb then you have to be a good passing qb first. DG was awful. Kaep and cam have not improved as pocket passers....rocket arms are obviously not enough.

 

[mhughes0021]

Yep. You were right all along. :bs:

Again, you're the guy who on the sunny day says, "It's going to rain." Then four days later on a rainy day says, "told you."

Sorry man, no amount of whitewashing is going to cover the level of stupidity you showed when before the season even started arguing for Morris to start over Gardner. And that's what you are. You are a stupid human being.

And I'm out. Have fun with whatever reply you deem necessary. Not going to touch it.

its easy to call a realist a hater when he accurate predicts a team to not do very well. Just as easy as it is for homers to think their team is good when they have flaws just about everywhere. 1 is wrong a lot.....1 has a better chance of being right more often. In this instance I said its going to rain...and it thunderstormed.