This is why you analytical wads are ruining baseball

[nsonnett14]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/11/ml...artinez-snub-twitter-fans-trout-betts-ramirez

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'd figure he'd win just because he's on Boston.

 

[Rebbiv]

Absolutely Betts and Trout are in the top 3. The issue would be Ramirez, who stole 30 bases and plays above average defense. So the question then would be ignore speed and defense over just hitting? The award isn't for the "Best Offensive Player". It is for "Most Valuable Player". What is the criteria? Is it objective or subjective? Even on his own team, J.D. might not even come out on top. IMO, Betts is a far superior player. Betts won the Gold Glove. Arguably the best leadoff hitter in the game. And as a leadoff hitter, he did not have as many RBI opportunities as say the #3 or #4 hitters.



1. Betts
2. Trout
3. Ramirez or J.D.


OK..we are crying over who would finish 3rd.

 

[sggatecl]

 

[byco42]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/11/ml...artinez-snub-twitter-fans-trout-betts-ramirez

#twtw

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

So JD had good offensive stats (some of the best), but wasn't one of the three best players in the league. I'm not sure how that's a bad thing. Just because a lot of fans don't care about defense doesn't mean teams/games don't. JD is an abysmal defender, and deserves to get knocked down a peg by it. No one's out here saying JD is a bad player, we're just saying he's not one of the THREE BEST PLAYERS in the league.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Absolutely Betts and Trout are in the top 3. The issue would be Ramirez, who stole 30 bases and plays above average defense. So the question then would be ignore speed and defense over just hitting? The award isn't for the "Best Offensive Player". It is for "Most Valuable Player". What is the criteria? Is it objective or subjective? Even on his own team, J.D. might not even come out on top. IMO, Betts is a far superior player. Betts won the Gold Glove. Arguably the best leadoff hitter in the game. And as a leadoff hitter, he did not have as many RBI opportunities as say the #3 or #4 hitters.



1. Betts
2. Trout
3. Ramirez or J.D.


OK..we are crying over who would finish 3rd.

MVP not best. Than why is Trout there? Great great player but the Angels never win. 4th place with him, 4th place without him. As an MVP I'd put JD in place of Trout.

 

[tomdalton22]

MVP not best. Than why is Trout there? Great great player but the Angels never win. 4th place with him, 4th place without him. As an MVP I'd put JD in place of Trout.

A single player can't carry a baseball team. Trout shouldn't be punished because the rest of his team sucks.

 

[Mitchrapp]

A single player can't carry a baseball team. Trout shouldn't be punished because the rest of his team sucks.

But is he more valuable than a player who without Boston might not have even won their division and maybe no WS? Don't know the numbers but it's a valid reason. And not just JD. Especially considering the Angels are in 4th either way. It's not best player but most valuable ..

 

[tomdalton22]

But is he more valuable than a player who without Boston might not have even won their division and maybe no WS? Don't know the numbers but it's a valid reason. And not just JD. Especially considering the Angels are in 4th either way. It's not best player but most valuable ..

so is it Betts or JD that is the reason Boston was a great team? Or was it Sale, Price and the rest of pitching staff that posted a 3.75 ERA?

 

[Mitchrapp]

so is it Betts or JD that is the reason Boston was a great team? Or was it Sale, Price and the rest of pitching staff that posted a 3.75 ERA?

Probably both and I'd probably go Betts as well. No pitcher because to win MVP they better not have any top notch position players. JD was just an example, maybe you shouldn't have 2 candidates from the same team. Trout will go down as one of the best of all time. These discussions have been going on for a long time, the definition of MVP. Unless he completely dominated the other guys on the list not sure he deserves to be finalist for MVP. Just an opinion.

 

[byco42]

J.D. Being 3A in consideration does not compare to the likes of Zoilo Versailles winning the award in 1965. With a .319 OPB. And 122 strike outs. Over his teammate Tony Oliva, and even Willie Horton.

 

[Rebbiv]

Again, we can discuss from an objective point of view or from a subjective point of view. In either extent, what are the criteria that we are judging them against?



I am of the opinion that is OK if a dominant starter wins. Others do not. But, do they take into account how much pressure that starter takes the bullpen and/or all the other starters, in most cases improving the team?



The knock against Trout is where his team finishes. Yet, how much more does he add to his team compared to Betts? Do you think LAA wins 72 games without Trout? Does BOS still win 100 games without Betts?



Analytics did not do anything here. Ignorance did.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Again, we can discuss from an objective point of view or from a subjective point of view. In either extent, what are the criteria that we are judging them against?



I am of the opinion that is OK if a dominant starter wins. Others do not. But, do they take into account how much pressure that starter takes the bullpen and/or all the other starters, in most cases improving the team?



The knock against Trout is where his team finishes. Yet, how much more does he add to his team compared to Betts? Do you think LAA wins 72 games without Trout? Does BOS still win 100 games without Betts?



Analytics did not do anything here. Ignorance did.

One thing I can say is that the Angels finish 4th regardless. Boston is in playoffs regardless. Though maybe not 1st in division. Though it would then depend who the replacement players were. Though close in numbers maybe take the guy who went to the playoffs. And the guy who won a GG though you know how I feel about the GG these days.


Also, I dominate position player can take pressure off the bullpen just as much maybe even more since they play more and Boston scored so many runs. So my opinion is that of, everything equal - assuming they are take the guy who went to the playoffs. End of the day I don't really care who wins.

 

[tomdalton22]

One thing I can say is that the Angels finish 4th regardless. Boston is in playoffs regardless. Though maybe not 1st in division. Though it would then depend who the replacement players were. Though close in numbers maybe take the guy who went to the playoffs. And the guy who won a GG though you know how I feel about the GG these days.


Also, I dominate position player can take pressure off the bullpen just as much maybe even more since they play more and Boston scored so many runs. So my opinion is that of, everything equal - assuming they are take the guy who went to the playoffs. End of the day I don't really care who wins.

well, If you switched the two players...JD to the Angels and Trout to Boston, Boston is better and the Angels are worse.

If I had a vote, I vote for the better player, not the guy on the stacked team.

 

[Mitchrapp]

There is an award for best player. As far if you switched players kind of hard to stay. Even if you did, Angles are still 4th.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Don't get me started on rookie of the year.. I know Ohtani will win it but imo didn't play enough. I'd go Andujar.

 

[tomdalton22]

There is an award for best player. As far if you switched players kind of hard to stay. Even if you did, Angles are still 4th.

what is the award for the best player?

 

[Mitchrapp]

what is the award for the best player?

Hank Aaron award.

 

[tomdalton22]

Hank Aaron award.

that is the award for the top hitter. Defense & baserunning aren't taken into consideration.