Tigers interested in + now with agreement in place for Joakim Soria

[kalinecountry]

http://www.freep.com/article/20140711/SPORTS02/307110144/joakim-soria-tigers
Tigers interested in Rangers closer Joakim Soria.
freep

Soria or ....DD gets egg on his face to reacquire Benoit.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/sport...-for-joaquin-benoit-to-boost-bullpen/26808538
Tigers reportedly interested in trading for Joaquin Benoit to boost bullpen.

 

[Thundercats]

With DD's recent track record, he'll trade Eugenio Suarez and Jd Martinez to Houston for Jose Veras instead of going out and trading a mid-level or two for a good pitcher like Soria or Benoit.

 

[tigermud]

Could dirks be considered for trade with the crowed outfield the tigers have now? Never know I'd be surprised if the dfa'd Kelly again..I mean he can play ever position you can't just discard that

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

With DD's recent track record, he'll trade Eugenio Suarez and Jd Martinez to Houston for Jose Veras instead of going out and trading a mid-level or two for a good pitcher like Soria or Benoit.

I disagree that his recent track record has been bad: Kinsler, JD Martinez, Castellanos, Suarez, Hardy, Chamberlain and Nathan. Fister hasn't worked out and the early season SS fiasco was just that.

To use Veras, a guy who he smartly refused the option (much to the chagrin of a few posters here though it was the right move), appears counter to the intent of derision.

Paying 7.5 million for Benoit to pitch the 8th seemed like a smart move to me back in November and December and I would have done it were I the GM and given the resources. We'll see how much DD thinks the 7th and 8th inning is worth.

Would Soria be content to not be the closer?

 

[spockmaster]

Could dirks be considered for trade with the crowed outfield the tigers have now? Never know I'd be surprised if the dfa'd Kelly again..I mean he can play ever position you can't just discard that

Yes. Yes you can, because he can't hit and he can't play many/any of those positions at even an average level anymore, except maybe LF. When Dirks is back, Kelly is gone, unless theres an injury.


Id like Soria and/or Benoit because bullpen help would be nice, but I've never been a fan of trading for relievers unless theyre no more than mid-level prospects going the other way.

 

[tigermud]

Yes. Yes you can, because he can't hit and he can't play many/any of those positions at even an average level anymore, except maybe LF. When Dirks is back, Kelly is gone, unless theres an injury.


Id like Soria and/or Benoit because bullpen help would be nice, but I've never been a fan of trading for relievers unless theyre no more than mid-level prospects going the other way.

Well you can dfa him but he's never gone nobody wanted him the last time they dfa'd him...maybe we'll get lucky and nobody will want him again ...hehe

 

[spockmaster]

Well you can dfa him but he's never gone nobody wanted him the last time they dfa'd him...maybe we'll get lucky and nobody will want him again ...hehe

I would call that the opposite of lucky.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I would call that the opposite of lucky.

Did DFK do a "bad touch" on your dog? You seem to have a lot of resentment for him.

In the spirit of your angst I'll put up 10 Buffalo Wild Wings (on a Thursday night) that DFK doesn't get DFA when (if) Dirks comes back.

 

[Rebbiv]

Any piece used now will likely prevent them from getting any good corner OF help after this year.

 

[Thundercats]

I disagree that his recent track record has been bad: Kinsler, JD Martinez, Castellanos, Suarez, Hardy, Chamberlain and Nathan. Fister hasn't worked out and the early season SS fiasco was just that.

To use Veras, a guy who he smartly refused the option (much to the chagrin of a few posters here though it was the right move), appears counter to the intent of derision.

Paying 7.5 million for Benoit to pitch the 8th seemed like a smart move to me back in November and December and I would have done it were I the GM and given the resources. We'll see how much DD thinks the 7th and 8th inning is worth.

Would Soria be content to not be the closer?

Fister hasn't worked out?! He's 8-2 with a 2.90 ERA. He's having a career year. And JD isn't DD's doing. It was Dave Clark's. DD simply obliged and added him as AAA depth. Joe Nathan has been a disaster. Suarez isn't recent, nor is Castellanos. Both of those guys have been in the organization for a bit. Hardy has barely pitched, and Kinsler was simply a cheaper return on Prince Fielder(which I agree is a good move). HE also traded Lombordozzi for a player we ended up keeping for a couple weeks. Traded Jose Alvarez for one of the worst shortstops in the game. Refuses to let Phil Coke go.. Before this year, I was a huge DD supporter, but he's got some work to do before I trust him again.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Fister hasn't worked out?! He's 8-2 with a 2.90 ERA. He's having a career year.

I apologize if that was phrased poorly. The Fister trade hasn't worked out to benefit the Tigers. I tried to put it in context with the SS fiasco that was also not DD's finest moment. Sorry that wasn't more clearly stated.

I do contend his overall body of work makes the initial statement misguided at the least.

 

[Thundercats]

Any piece used now will likely prevent them from getting any good corner OF help after this year.

Do you think they'd be better off trading or using free agency? I haven't looked at the list of FA yet, but there are usually good, cheap options for the productive players who's names aren't as sexy. Like Mike Morse this past year.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Fister hasn't worked out?! He's 8-2 with a 2.90 ERA. He's having a career year. And JD isn't DD's doing. It was Dave Clark's. DD simply obliged and added him as AAA depth. Joe Nathan has been a disaster. Suarez isn't recent, nor is Castellanos. Both of those guys have been in the organization for a bit. Hardy has barely pitched, and Kinsler was simply a cheaper return on Prince Fielder(which I agree is a good move). HE also traded Lombordozzi for a player we ended up keeping for a couple weeks. Traded Jose Alvarez for one of the worst shortstops in the game. Refuses to let Phil Coke go.. Before this year, I was a huge DD supporter, but he's got some work to do before I trust him again.

You added a lot after. I really don't want to go point by point because it is obvious we have a major schism in our logic and approach. The following are my thoughts on the moves you mention.

DD still had to approve JD. It was great having inside info we could trust. JD had his choice of teams (his agent said he had 16 offers) so it was really the organization DD has built that landed JD. Good job DD from me here.

Nathan hasn't been good but I still stand by the signing. I won't dig up your post history and will trust you to say if you liked it when we got him. I know I did. I'm sad that he hasn't been who we thought he was but I'm still hopeful he will be. Good job DD from me here.

Suarez and Castellanos are full-time players on the roster. Doesn't matter, to me, how long they've been in the organization. DD is oft criticized for not developing players and having the weakest farm in baseball outside of power pitchers. Good job DD from me here.

I like Hardy, regardless of sample size. I think he has been ready for this opportunity and Ian Krol set him back to no fault of his own. I'll also say I think Chad Smith has the tools to impact the team in a positive way. Good job DD from me here.

Kinsler is a great move especially given the circumstances surrounding Fielder that appear to go deeper than post-season performance. Good job DD from me here.

Lombo is in the minors and would just be the next DFK for people to hate after a month of .276 OBP. No loss here but trading him for an over the hill Alex Gonzalez? If you give all the credit to Dave Clark for JD then you have to assign all the blame to Omar Vizquel on Gonzalez, I don't it was still Dave's call here too. Poor job DD from me here.

Jose Alvarez? Romine has been more useful even though he's a lighter hitting Ramon Santiago. Whatever all around DD from me here.

Phil Coke on the roster...I don't know what to say. Coke has pitched well and now that his fastball is getting back to 96 I have to say "Good job DD." Lefty power pitchers are not easy to find. That's why DD clung to him beyond what we saw as all logic and reason. Good job DD from me here.

The Fister trade is the only one that makes me gnash my teeth some. We shoulda got more. That's not been my contention to this point but I was wrong. DD's penchant for secrecy on his trades bit him in the ass I think.

BTW - what happened to the "Pick the date Coke gets DFA'd thread"? I have searched and looked and can't find it.

 

[Thundercats]

You added a lot after. I really don't want to go point by point because it is obvious we have a major schism in our logic and approach. The following are my thoughts on the moves you mention.

DD still had to approve JD. It was great having inside info we could trust. JD had his choice of teams (his agent said he had 16 offers) so it was really the organization DD has built that landed JD. Good job DD from me here.

Nathan hasn't been good but I still stand by the signing. I won't dig up your post history and will trust you to say if you liked it when we got him. I know I did. I'm sad that he hasn't been who we thought he was but I'm still hopeful he will be. Good job DD from me here.

Suarez and Castellanos are full-time players on the roster. Doesn't matter, to me, how long they've been in the organization. DD is oft criticized for not developing players and having the weakest farm in baseball outside of power pitchers. Good job DD from me here.

I like Hardy, regardless of sample size. I think he has been ready for this opportunity and Ian Krol set him back to no fault of his own. I'll also say I think Chad Smith has the tools to impact the team in a positive way. Good job DD from me here.

Kinsler is a great move especially given the circumstances surrounding Fielder that appear to go deeper than post-season performance. Good job DD from me here.

Lombo is in the minors and would just be the next DFK for people to hate after a month of .276 OBP. No loss here but trading him for an over the hill Alex Gonzalez? If you give all the credit to Dave Clark for JD then you have to assign all the blame to Omar Vizquel on Gonzalez, I don't it was still Dave's call here too. Poor job DD from me here.

Jose Alvarez? Romine has been more useful even though he's a lighter hitting Ramon Santiago. Whatever all around DD from me here.

Phil Coke on the roster...I don't know what to say. Coke has pitched well and now that his fastball is getting back to 96 I have to say "Good job DD." Lefty power pitchers are not easy to find. That's why DD clung to him beyond what we saw as all logic and reason. Good job DD from me here.

The Fister trade is the only one that makes me gnash my teeth some. We shoulda got more. That's not been my contention to this point but I was wrong. DD's penchant for secrecy on his trades bit him in the ass I think.

BTW - what happened to the "Pick the date Coke gets DFA'd thread"? I have searched and looked and can't find it.

I liked signing Nathan. I also hated adding no depth around him.. so when Nathan implodes, there is absolutely nobody to help fix it. Chamberlain has been a diamond in the rough. I expect him to put up completely different and worse stats next season, though. He's never been very good.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I liked signing Nathan. I also hated adding no depth around him.. so when Nathan implodes, there is absolutely nobody to help fix it. Chamberlain has been a diamond in the rough. I expect him to put up completely different and worse stats next season, though. He's never been very good.

That as it may. Do you still contend that DD is more likely to make a bad move or a good move to get a 7th or 8th inning guy?

Follow up for everyone; who do you see as the piece to land Benoit or Soria? McCann? Tyler Collins? Moya? We know who we have so who are the specific players you would be comfortable giving up?

 

[Rebbiv]

Do you think they'd be better off trading or using free agency? I haven't looked at the list of FA yet, but there are usually good, cheap options for the productive players who's names aren't as sexy. Like Mike Morse this past year.

I am not a fan of Mike Morse. After a hot April/May, Morse has been below average ever since (more in line with his career norms).

I want long term consistent production. A 32-year old mediocre OF does not do it for me, regardless of cost. Morse is a free swinger, who hardly walks. Additionally, he is worse than Delmon Young when it comes to playing the OF.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/2015-mlb-free-agents.html

There isn't a Ellsbury/Choo/Granderson type Free Agent.

You could sign a Chase Headly and move Castellanos to LF. Or even make Headley your LFer.

Maybe we can get lucky and have TBR decline Zobrist's option. He would be ideal for DET.

 

[Rebbiv]

That as it may. Do you still contend that DD is more likely to make a bad move or a good move to get a 7th or 8th inning guy?

Follow up for everyone; who do you see as the piece to land Benoit or Soria? McCann? Tyler Collins? Moya? We know who we have so who are the specific players you would be comfortable giving up?

McCann and/or Moya are not projected as anything special. They would be "fillers" in the trade, not the targets. It would be more like Travis or Ray.

 

[biggunsbob]

Well as long as we don't get fleeced in the deal I would add either of these two guys ..If we add Soria we may have a problem with Nathan and him as Soria probably goes to back to the 8th inning until he replaces Nathan after he starts to implode again. Could be weird some dynamics there.. If DD goes after Benoit like was mentioned DD likes like a idiot but then we know for sure JB goes to the 8th inning and he can close if needed.. I just hope we don't give up to much... Hopefully Joel Hanrahan can help this year or next...

 

[biggunsbob]

As for Don Kelly... Everyday I hate his ass.. Then every fifth day he plays freaking great and I love him like the stray cat who comes once a month to my back door for some milk..
It does worry me that Nick has to be replaced by him in the late innings.. DK is a jack of all trades but is he really any good at any of the positions he plays.. My guess is he will stick somehow someway.. Not sure If I like it but oh well... He has no power as a pinch hitter off the bench when we need a miracle win..

 

[Rebbiv]

I disagree that his recent track record has been bad: Kinsler, JD Martinez, Castellanos, Suarez, Hardy, Chamberlain and Nathan. Fister hasn't worked out and the early season SS fiasco was just that.

To use Veras, a guy who he smartly refused the option (much to the chagrin of a few posters here though it was the right move), appears counter to the intent of derision.

Paying 7.5 million for Benoit to pitch the 8th seemed like a smart move to me back in November and December and I would have done it were I the GM and given the resources. We'll see how much DD thinks the 7th and 8th inning is worth.

Would Soria be content to not be the closer?

Is recent just the last 6 year or so? If so, they you can include Valverde in the mix.

Maybe the Danry Vasquez and David Paulino for a half of year of Jose Veras?