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Tigers vs. royals 7-17-16 Game 92

http://m.tigers.mlb.com/det/video/search?team_id=116&tagName=Detroit Tigers
Webvideo Highlights of the Tigers 4 - 2 walkoff win over the royals.

http://www.foxsports.com/detroit/story/tigers-live-postgame-7-17-16-michael-fulmer-video-071716
Webvideo Tigers LIVE postgame 7.17.16: Michael Fulmer.
FoxDetroit

http://www.foxsports.com/detroit/story/tigers-live-postgame-7-17-16-brad-ausmus-video-071716
Webvideo Tigers LIVE postgame 7.17.16: Brad Ausmus.
FoxDetroit

Michael Fulmer: Just look at that line. 8 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 5 SO. Another afternoon of pure dominance from the Tigers’ promising rookie.

Nick Castellanos: He single-handedly started the Tigers’ rally in the sixth, hitting a triple to right-center (with a bit of help from the Royals’ defense). Castellanos also added two doubles

Jose Iglesias: The Tigers’ shortstop is quietly having a nice season, hitting above .300 with an on-base percentage north of .370 since June 1. Iglesias had two more hits and scored a run in this game.

Jarrod Saltalamacchia: I don’t think that ball has landed yet.

Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez: The Tigers’ two biggest bats have looked lost at the plate lately. They went a combined 0-for-8 with three strikeouts in this game.

Justin Upton’s bad luck: Upton hasn’t had a great season at the plate, but it seems like he has been unluckier than most when he does make solid contact. Upton hit the ball hard in his first three plate appearances, but came away with nothing to show for it. He went 0-for-4.

Michael Fulmer has allowed six hits for the first time since May 10, a string of 10 starts.
 
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Watched the game where we had lunch today ('Meat' in Lansing, highly recommend).

Few things that stuck out aside from the obvious walk off:

-Fulmer showing maturity beyond his age having a rough start and then effectively shutting the Royals down as the game progressed. Reminded me of old JV getting better throughout the game.
- Nick C with some absolute hustle on that triple, lead to a tie game. Awesome.
- I can't believe Ausmus had to challenge that steal at second. Was safe by a country mile.
 
The maybe only other poster from espn days who might have saved it is Turok.
 
The more I watch Fulmer pitch, the more the need for an above average defensive catcher is needed. The kid has so much movement that it's gonna cost us runs unless we have a catcher that can move around better to block those pitches. Shit, his movement on the K to Hosmer in the 8th almost killed the Ump!!!
 
DET 48-44 .522 WPCT 4.83 Runs/G

With Catcher

B. Wilson 3-1 .750 WPCT 6.69 Runs/G

J. Saltalamacchia 22-15 .595 WPCT (24-15 .615 WPCT in all starts) 5.22 Runs/G

J. McCann 23-28 .451 WPCT 213 Runs 4.20 Runs/G
 
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jas5lf said:
+1

That thread was comedic gold.
Click to expand...

I have located ESPN Detroit Tigers messageboard posts, including the first, second, and third (Oct 2006) iterations after several reformats as far back as 2003 using the Internet Wayback Machine when we still posted there...but it is not searchable by keyword, such as INGE=HOF!!!

You have to enter the exact and accurate web address that ESPN used, such as espn.go.com/detroittigers. I do not remember the addresses and tried just espn.go.com, but too many results crashed my browser.


https://web.archive.org/web/2003030....go.com/cgi/mlb/request.dll?LIST&room=mlb_det

This is really freaking hard to do

https://web.archive.org/web/20100211035455/http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=mlb&id=det


Used to be able to click on and view the individual posts, but perhaps when ESPN wiped all traces of their team messageboards for good, these links went with them. The calendar provided for each month, and day per year links to the same page.

https://web.archive.org/web/2008031....com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=general&page=1

I "fondly" remember the ESPN NFL General board, it was any and everything goes during the off-season. Lots of crazy and weird shit happened there. Got banned a few times there as well.
 
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Rebbiv said:
DET 48-44 .522 WPCT

With Catcher

B. Wilson 3-1 .750 WPCT

J. Saltalamacchia 22-15 .595 WPCT (24-15 .615 WPCT in all starts)

J. McCann 23-28 .451 WPCT
Click to expand...


Weren't you the one that said not to judge PITCHER'S by win/loss records?

How would doing it for catchers be any different?
 
 
 
gotime909 said:
Weren't you the one that said not to judge PITCHER'S by win/loss records?

How would doing it for catchers be any different?
Click to expand...


It is all about run support. Pitchers cannot control the run support they get. In today's baseball, show me a 20-game winner and I will show you a starter who got above average run support.

I went back and added the run support by catcher. When McCann starts, there is at least a full run less run support.


DET Team 48-42 4.8 RS/G

Norris 2-1 6.9 RS/G
Fulmer 12-2 5.9 RS/G
Zimmerman 10-5 5.8 RS/G
Greene 1-2 5.3 RS/G

Verlander 11-8 4.4 RS/G
Boyd 2-4 4.3 RS/G
Sanchez 3-11 4.0 RS/G
Pelfrey 7-11 3.9 RS/G

Above Average Run Support = 25-10 .714 WPCT

Below Average Run Support = 23-34 .406 WPCT


All Player In Games Started

B. Wilson 3-1 .750 WPCT
J. Saltalamacchia 24-15 .615 WPCT

C. Maybin 27-21 .563 WPCT
S. Moya 14-11 .560 WPCT
N. Castellanos 47-40 .540 WPCT
A. Romine 8-7 .533 WPCT
I. Kinsler 46-41 .529 WPCT
J.D. Martinez 34-31 .523 WPCT
M. Cabrera 46-43 .517 WPCT
J. Upton 43-41 .512 WPCT
V. Martinez 41-40 .506 WPCT
J. Iglesias 41-40 .506 WPCT
T. Collins 4-4 .500 WPCT

A. Gose 13-14 .481 WPCT

J. McCann 23-28 .451 WPCT
M. Aviles 13-17 .433 WPCT

2 of the catchers are at the top of the list, while the third is at the bottom. Coincidence?

McCann and Aviles have started in 20 games together. 9-11 90 Runs. Neither of these players should be starting against RHP.

Starting against LHP

Aviles+McCann 7-5 .583 WPCT

Starting againsta RHP

Aviles+McCann 2-6 .250 WPCT


Just McCann 23-28

vs RHP 10-18 .357 WPCT

vs LHP 13-10 .565 WPCT


You certainly need pitching. But does anyone seriously think DET would be 12-2 in Fulmer's starts if he didn't receive such good run support? And would it not help to pitch if your team consistently gave you a lead to play with?

Our 2 worse starters have been Sanchez and Pelfrey (also 2 worst run support starters). Given their run support, do you think the record would be any different with 2 other #4 or #5 starters? I don't think it would be much more than 1-2 wins, given the same Run Support.
 
Rebbiv said:
It is all about run support. Pitchers cannot control the run support they get. In today's baseball, show me a 20-game winner and I will show you a starter who got above average run support.

I went back and added the run support by catcher. When McCann starts, there is at least a full run less run support.


DET Team 48-42 4.8 RS/G

Norris 2-1 6.9 RS/G
Fulmer 12-2 5.9 RS/G
Zimmerman 10-5 5.8 RS/G
Greene 1-2 5.3 RS/G

Verlander 11-8 4.4 RS/G
Boyd 2-4 4.3 RS/G
Sanchez 3-11 4.0 RS/G
Pelfrey 7-11 3.9 RS/G

Above Average Run Support = 25-10 .714 WPCT

Below Average Run Support = 23-34 .406 WPCT


All Player In Games Started

B. Wilson 3-1 .750 WPCT
J. Saltalamacchia 24-15 .615 WPCT

C. Maybin 27-21 .563 WPCT
S. Moya 14-11 .560 WPCT
N. Castellanos 47-40 .540 WPCT
A. Romine 8-7 .533 WPCT
I. Kinsler 46-41 .529 WPCT
J.D. Martinez 34-31 .523 WPCT
M. Cabrera 46-43 .517 WPCT
J. Upton 43-41 .512 WPCT
V. Martinez 41-40 .506 WPCT
J. Iglesias 41-40 .506 WPCT
T. Collins 4-4 .500 WPCT

A. Gose 13-14 .481 WPCT

J. McCann 23-28 .451 WPCT
M. Aviles 13-17 .433 WPCT

2 of the catchers are at the top of the list, while the third is at the bottom. Coincidence?

McCann and Aviles have started in 20 games together. 9-11 90 Runs. Neither of these players should be starting against RHP.

Starting against LHP

Aviles+McCann 7-5 .583 WPCT

Starting againsta RHP

Aviles+McCann 2-6 .250 WPCT


Just McCann 23-28

vs RHP 10-18 .357 WPCT

vs LHP 13-10 .565 WPCT


You certainly need pitching. But does anyone seriously think DET would be 12-2 in Fulmer's starts if he didn't receive such good run support? And would it not help to pitch if your team consistently gave you a lead to play with?

Our 2 worse starters have been Sanchez and Pelfrey (also 2 worst run support starters). Given their run support, do you think the record would be any different with 2 other #4 or #5 starters? I don't think it would be much more than 1-2 wins, given the same Run Support.
Click to expand...

He allowed 5 or more runs 1 times and they were 0-1 in those games
He allowed 4 runs in 1 games and they were 1-0
He allowed 3 runs 1 game and they were 1-0
He allowed 2 runs in 2 games and they were 2-0
He allowed 1 run in 4 games and they were 3-1
He allowed 0 runs in 5 games and they were 5-0

In 14 games he allowed 3 or less earned runs in 12 of them and in 11 games he had 2 or less. With pitching like that....I can see a team going 12-2
 
tomdalton22 said:
He allowed 5 or more runs 1 times and they were 0-1 in those games
He allowed 4 runs in 1 games and they were 1-0
He allowed 3 runs 1 game and they were 1-0
He allowed 2 runs in 2 games and they were 2-0
He allowed 1 run in 4 games and they were 3-1
He allowed 0 runs in 5 games and they were 5-0

In 14 games he allowed 3 or less earned runs in 12 of them and in 11 games he had 2 or less. With pitching like that....I can see a team going 12-2
Click to expand...


Fulmer Offense Support

0 runs = 0-0
1 run = 0-0
2 runs = 0-0
3 runs = 1-1
4 runs = 3-1
5 runs = 3-0
6 runs = 1-0

8 or more runs = 4-0

85.7% of starts the team scored 4 or more runs (11-1)


Verlander Offense Support

0 runs = 0-1
1 run = 0-2
2 runs = 0-0
3 runs = 2-3

4 runs = 2-2
5 runs = 2-0
6 runs = 2-0

8 or more runs = 3-0

57.9% of starts the team scored 4 or more runs (9-2)

So you are saying despite his pitching, the offense would never score less than 3 runs with Fulmer pitching?
 
Rebbiv said:
Fulmer Offense Support

0 runs = 0-0
1 run = 0-0
2 runs = 0-0
3 runs = 1-1
4 runs = 3-1
5 runs = 3-0
6 runs = 1-0

8 or more runs = 4-0

85.7% of starts the team scored 4 or more runs (11-1)


Verlander Offense Support

0 runs = 0-1
1 run = 0-2
2 runs = 0-0
3 runs = 2-3

4 runs = 2-2
5 runs = 2-0
6 runs = 2-0

8 or more runs = 3-0

57.9% of starts the team scored 4 or more runs (9-2)

So you are saying despite his pitching, the offense would never score less than 3 runs with Fulmer pitching?
Click to expand...

no...what I'm saying is whey you hold a team to low runs that many times you are more likely to win a lot of games.

Fulmer: 14 games he allowed 3 or less earned runs in 12 of them and in 11 games he had 2 or less. 9 games of 1 or 0 earned runs and 5 where he had 0.

JV 18 games he allowed 3 or less earned runs in 14 of them and 10 of them he had 2 or less. 6 games of 1 or 0 and only 2 where he had 0.
 
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FYI former top prospect Jacob Turner made his first MLB start yesterday for the white sox, gave up a pair of homers to pujols
 
gotime909 said:
Salty might have gotten someone plunked next time we face KC. Fuck it!!!
Click to expand...

I didn't see the game but just watched the replay. He didn't do anything that would deserve someone getting hit. He hit it, raised his arm and immediately started his HR trot. It was great...as soon has he hit it the catcher started walking to the dug out.
 
tomdalton22 said:
no...what I'm saying is whey you hold a team to low runs that many times you are more likely to win a lot of games.

Fulmer: 14 games he allowed 3 or less earned runs in 12 of them and in 11 games he had 2 or less. 9 games of 1 or 0 earned runs and 5 where he had 0.

JV 18 games he allowed 3 or less earned runs in 14 of them and 10 of them he had 2 or less. 6 games of 1 or 0 and only 2 where he had 0.
Click to expand...

How many of Verlander's earned runs were a result of the bullpen and how many were of Fulmer?

A team needs both pitching and offense to win, but 70% of all wins over the last 20-30 years have come when your team scores 5 or more ,runs. There are a lot more 5-1, 6-1, 7-2 or 8-3 games, then there are 2-1 games or 3-2 games.

Sometimes it is a matter of "what came first, the chicken or the egg"? Sometimes, scoring runs early equates to better pitching performance by the starter. I doubt it works the opposite.
 
Sbee said:
FYI former top prospect Jacob Turner made his first MLB start yesterday for the white sox, gave up a pair of homers to pujols
Click to expand...

He looked like he might have something the first year or so in Miami. Wonder what went wrong?
 
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