Today's example of Christians behaving badly

[Michchamp]

I never liked this thread, I mentioned it a few times, but I get it now. Appalling and I'm embarrassed. What the fuck is wrong with these people.. These damn Priests I hope they all rot in hell.

See post #414.

But Yeah, this is fucked up.

In the movie Spotlight - yeah I know it's a movie but it's based on the original reporting in the Boston scandal - they detailed how the priests would target poor kids without fathers, knowing they were the most vulnerable: the families were often in school on charity or free tuition, they had no money to hire lawyers and generally no familiarity with using the legal system even if they did. And without a father in the picture, no chance some angry dad would come beat the shit out of the priest who was doing it.

I checked. in the film they said it was "6% of priests" but at the time, that still came out to 90 in Boston alone. and each of those monsters had multiple victims.

do as we say, not as we do...

 

[Mitchrapp]

I just read that. I won't give anyone any more shit.. I remember watching Spotlight with my Mom, she's a huge Catholic and loved the movie. Even though it was hard to watch at times. We're suppose to get absolution from these evil bastards. How can you trust a priest any longer.. My God, all those Children.

 

[b311j]

 

[tinselwolverine]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is one big ass image.

 

[Michchamp]

This dropped today... long article about decades of physical & sexual abuse, and also murder of orphans at Catholic run orphanages. These weren't simply accidental deaths, but intentional murder. (link)

The article centers on orphanages in the US and Canada, but mentions this happened at orphanages around the world.

Absolutely grotesque.

I had to stop reading it.

 

[sggatecl]

I've long held the belief that by demanding their priests be celibate and completely devoid of intimate relationships that they will always be prone to attracting these types of people.

 

[Gulo Blue]

This dropped today... long article about decades of physical & sexual abuse, and also murder of orphans at Catholic run orphanages. These weren't simply accidental deaths, but intentional murder. (link)

The article centers on orphanages in the US and Canada, but mentions this happened at orphanages around the world.

Absolutely grotesque.

I had to stop reading it.

I'm making my way through this. It's long and will take a few sittings.
I think monsters have always been drawn to places where they have power over the defenseless. And those in power sweep things under the run rather than risk losing their own authority when those under them are reported. I am optimistic that developments in communication and social media that make these things easier to expose will eventually reduce the number of monsters which I think are in part created when children are victimized and believe monstrous behavior is normal and then some of them grow up to become monsters themselves. I think those are more likely causes than the celibacy issue (which I would be happy to see go away.) None of the above should be read as a defense. Knowing what we know now, you'd have to be naive to not expect monsters to be drawn to these places or for people under them to be intimidated into silence, but the consistent lack of humanity in the leaders that covered and enabled the monsters is not defensible.

 

[Michchamp]

I'm thinking the Catholic church's stance on abortion isn't because they believe murdering infants is wrong, they just want to be the ones to do the murdering.

 

[b311j]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is one big ass image.

Makes the headline on the newspaper easier to read. Got to love the FFRF ripping on MSU and priests all in one ad.

 

[tomdalton22]

I just read a story about Hitler killing Jews. Is there a "Todays example of Germans behaving badly" thread?

 

[tigermud]

I just read a story about Hitler killing Jews. Is there a "Todays example of Germans behaving badly" thread?

There isn’t one called Muslims behaving badly either, one side is full of sikco pedos the other barbarbinas running around cutting people’s heads off or burning alive etc idk it all just makes me sick and leaves me not wanting anything to do with organized religion at all

 

[Polish-Hammer]

I just read a story about Hitler killing Jews. Is there a "Todays example of Germans behaving badly" thread?

You mean that Australian fella?

 

[tomdalton22]

You mean that Australian fella?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s96eiqKFnM0


:clap:

 

[Spartanmack]

There isn’t one called Muslims behaving badly either, one side is full of sikco pedos the other barbarbinas running around cutting people’s heads off or burning alive etc idk it all just makes me sick and leaves me not wanting anything to do with organized religion at all

there also isn't one titled teachers behaving badly. No one is excusing the abuse or the coverups, but to pretend this is a uniquely Catholic problem is to miss the problem entirely. An AP report from May 2017 found 17,000 official reports of sex assaults on students from the fall of 2011 to spring of 2015 - 4 years. Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft, who performed a study for the Department of Education in 2002 said "The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests." That report found that 422,000 California public school students would be victimized by sexual abuse before graduation - more than the entire California Catholic school enrollment. The American Association of University Women found that one in ten students from 8th to 11th grade said they had been subjected to sexual comments, pornography, peeping, or sexual contact form a teacher or school employee. Similar studies have found that abuse of children isn't anymore prevalent in the Catholic church is it is among any other religions.

Again, this is not a defense of the actions of the predators within the Church or the coverup buy the Church - the scandal is appalling and the consequences should be severe. When hacks like chump and BJking say this delegitimizes the Church or call for shutting it down or other actions they wouldn't consider for other institutions, it's pretty clear this is more about their hatred of the Catholic Church (and religion in general) than just a hatred for sexual abuse.

 

[Michchamp]

Maybe I have been a little too harsh.

You're right. like you I should try to find "The Good" in the Catholic Church, an organization that knowingly harbored, protected, and enabled child rapists for decades. and probably for centuries before that.

But Only a "hater" would choose to focus on such negative things.

Like you point out, child abuse happens in other places, like schools and universities such as... uh... Michigan State University. Only in most cases, the schools don't shield the abusers for years; they fire them. They don't quietly transfer them across the country so they can abuse new kids somewhere else, like the Catholic Church did. well, some did, but those were schools associated with the Catholic Church, which emphasizes how this was in some ways a deeper problem.

And schools also don't claim to be morally superior to everyone else, claim a divine link with an imaginary man in the sky who created everything, or insist everyone venerate them as holy and obey them.

We also don't have an "education" section; you're posting in the "religion" section of the board, so that's why there's no "Teachers Behaving Badly" thread.

BUT other than those minor quibbles, your comparison is TOTALLY APT.

I'm convinced.

Screw what the haters say: you're definitely Cooley Law school material. Top notch reasoning here.

The mods should create a merit badge for your profile.

 

[Spartanmack]

Maybe I have been a little too harsh.

You're right. like you I should try to find "The Good" in the Catholic Church, an organization that knowingly harbored, protected, and enabled child rapists for decades. and probably for centuries before that.

But Only a "hater" would choose to focus on such negative things.

Like you point out, child abuse happens in other places, like schools and universities such as... uh... Michigan State University. Only in most cases, the schools don't shield the abusers for years; they fire them. They don't quietly transfer them across the country so they can abuse new kids somewhere else, like the Catholic Church did. well, some did, but those were schools associated with the Catholic Church, which emphasizes how this was in some ways a deeper problem.

And schools also don't claim to be morally superior to everyone else, claim a divine link with an imaginary man in the sky who created everything, or insist everyone venerate them as holy and obey them.

We also don't have an "education" section; you're posting in the "religion" section of the board, so that's why there's no "Teachers Behaving Badly" thread.

BUT other than those minor quibbles, your comparison is TOTALLY APT.

I'm convinced.

Screw what the haters say: you're definitely Cooley Law school material. Top notch reasoning here.

The mods should create a merit badge for your profile.

this could be one of your dumbest responses to any post I've ever read. Schools don't claim to be morally superior which makes it different - they get a pass on being perhaps the institution where your child is most likely to be sexually abused. Secular sexual abuse is so different - and apparently in your eyes, much better. Nevermind the fact that moral superiority isn't a tenet of the Church.

The comparison is apt but you're too dense to understand that. This is just an incoherent rant to defend your hatred of the Catholic Church. And I'm not making a legal argument but since you made that asinine statement, you'd be well served to remember I'm not the one with the law degree from some 3rd tier retread law school - that's you.

The mods should create a dunce cap for your profile.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Only in most cases, the schools don't shield the abusers for years

I don't think enough investigation has taken place to say how often it happens; the records might not even exists, but a quick google search shows schools have the same tendency to hide abuse. I think the inclination to assume most places wouldn't cover it up is part of the problem. I know "trust, but verify" is a political, nuclear arms term, but it should be the thinking with regard to everyone that works with kids.

 

[Michchamp]

Is that the hill you want to die on?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Is that the hill you want to die on?

What hill? If you think there's something backwards about my read, I'm all ears.

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't think enough investigation has taken place to say how often it happens; the records might not even exists, but a quick google search shows schools have the same tendency to hide abuse. I think the inclination to assume most places wouldn't cover it up is part of the problem. I know "trust, but verify" is a political, nuclear arms term, but it should be the thinking with regard to everyone that works with kids.

not only hide but they also keep the people around - recall the stories about the rubber rooms in the NYC school district where teachers who were no longer allowed in the classroom would sit around, do nothing and collect a full paycheck. They weren't all sexual abusers but the sexual abusers were in those rooms too.