Today's example of Christians behaving badly

[KAWDUP]

Besides, if we were to give into him, he would just hold something over our heads again in the future. Maybe he decides that he doesn't like the home or neighborhood we've chosen. Perhaps he won't like that we have him in public school and wants him in a private catholic schoool....it doesn't end. If we don't put our foot down now, this is just going to keep happening.

It only keeps happening when you let it happen. You just chose this rather arbitrary tenet as the place to make your stand. Your choice of course.

It's not just a little bit of blessed water. There is much more involved. I don't give a fuck if he wants to believe when he's older, but it's going to be his own decision, not something that people push onto him. I can not fathom why anyone would lay blame at my feet when I'm the good guy in this scenario.

Actually, yeah it is just a little bit of blessed water. All the other crap is where the problem lies. I suppose, if it gets you out of putting your foot down for some other misguided stupidity from the man, you get to make the decision when that occurs.

Still not the fault of the tenet of Baptism, or of Christianity in general.

As I said it is my opinion. You putting absurd words or beliefs into my mouth notwithstanding.

 

[Michchamp]

You're a dickhead, but I don't condemn atheism just because of that.

Damn, it is a fucking miracle so many still believe after all your posturing. I wonder why that might be?!? Oh, right, nearly a billion people are just stupid fucking idiots in your simpleton mind.

here we have an ad hominem logical fallacy, and a bandwagon logical fallacy.

I'm a bad person and lots of people believe in religion, so it must be true...

well I think you're a jerk, and there are almost 1 billion Hindus, and they're a polytheistic religion, so there's an equal opportunity you're wrong.

 

[Monster]

You're a dickhead, but I don't condemn atheism just because of that.

Damn, it is a fucking miracle so many still believe after all your posturing. I wonder why that might be?!? Oh, right, nearly a billion people are just stupid fucking idiots in your simpleton mind.

Actually, it's more like 4 or 5 billion. But then again, even more people throughout history believed that the earth was flat, the oceans had horrible monsters that could and would destroy ships, that the sun was carried across the sky by a "god", that the sun went around the Earth. History has proven that most people don't care to know the truth about the Universe when it interferes with their religion. That is a proven fact of life.

 

[KAWDUP]

Edit: I just refuse to believe that any god would sentence a child to Hell. That's insane and if your god is that type of god.

There is only one God. "type of god" is actually nonsensical in that context. People can attribute many things to Him - it does not make them true.

No one is judging you. I was just quoting the related dogma. I made no claim to its correctness, or whether I believe in such a tenet.

God does not "sentence" anyone to Hell BTW - but that may be another discussion.

 

[Monster]

It only keeps happening when you let it happen. You just chose this rather arbitrary tenet as the place to make your stand. Your choice of course.



Actually, yeah it is just a little bit of blessed water. All the other crap is where the problem lies. I suppose, if it gets you out of putting your foot down for some other misguided stupidity from the man, you get to make the decision when that occurs.

Still not the fault of the tenet of Baptism, or of Christianity in general.

As I said it is my opinion. You putting absurd words or beliefs into my mouth notwithstanding.

I understand the water. I get it. Again. There are more steps for him to take after baptism.

 

[KAWDUP]

here we have an ad hominem logical fallacy, and a bandwagon logical fallacy.

I'm a bad person and lots of people believe in religion, so it must be true...

well I think you're a jerk, and there are almost 1 billion Hindus, and they're a polytheistic religion, so there's an equal opportunity you're wrong.

LOL - big terms for a simpleton. You're not a bad person, you were just being a dickhead, a common occurrence where you are concerned.

Where did I say, that is why it is true? Riiight, and I proposed the logical fallacy.

How does a comment that I don't condemn atheism due to the actions of a dickhead atheist mean everything you just spewed about me?

BTW not sure why you bolded "you're"? Did I use it incorrectly somewhere?

 

[KAWDUP]

I understand the water. I get it. Again. There are more steps for him to take after baptism.

Understand - sorry for becoming that which I despise. I was just being a Michchamp level dickhead because the statements maybe prove that that person does not deserve your love or respect, but I generally get rankled over indicting an entire religion for a misguided nutcase.

 

[Monster]

Understand - sorry for becoming that which I despise. I was just being a Michchamp level dickhead because the statements maybe prove that that person does not deserve your love or respect, but I generally get rankled over indicting an entire religion for a misguided nutcase.

It's the religion I have the issue with. Most people are okay. The institution sucks. The pressures that are put on politicians to be a part of that institution is crazy. Look at Obama. The guy isn't a typical Christian and has some liberal views and all of a sudden, he's a muslim or an atheist, depending on who is talking about him. Your religious affiliation shouldn't determine your position in this country and it seems like that is the main requirement. That is a huge part of why I'm becoming more angry toward religion. Don't worry, man. You're okay.

 

[KAWDUP]

It's the religion I have the issue with. Most people are okay. The institution sucks. The pressures that are put on politicians to be a part of that institution is crazy. Look at Obama. The guy isn't a typical Christian and has some liberal views and all of a sudden, he's a muslim or an atheist, depending on who is talking about him. Your religious affiliation shouldn't determine your position in this country and it seems like that is the main requirement. That is a huge part of why I'm becoming more angry toward religion. Don't worry, man. You're okay.

Many people say "religion" or "Christianity" in a discussion and immediately conjure up all the negative things ever done by people in its name. I can actually separate the two. Other's, due to their own experiences of people who claim to follow the religion in question, come to very negative conclusions about it, and therefore it follows that it must be the fault of that religion.

If I harm or kill you in the name of something I do not really understand, I am the one being bad. If I also hold quite a bit a power, the effect can be devastating. What is amazing to me is that because of the great things that Christianity stands for and actually represents, that has survived even throughout all of these bad events and people, there might actually be something to it.

. . . and no Michchamp, I don't use that statement as proof that it is true. Sheesh!

 

[Michchamp]

...

. . . and no Michchamp, I don't use that statement as proof that it is true. Sheesh!

With the "billion people" statement you did.

 

[KAWDUP]

With the "billion people" statement you did.

Really?

Damn, it is a fucking miracle so many still believe after all your posturing. I wonder why that might be?!? Oh, right, nearly a billion people are just stupid fucking idiots in your simpleton mind.

How did you get that? Show me the logic in getting from this statement to yours of saying it represents truth even to me?

I think the key words in the statement are "still believe", you must think otherwise. I highly doubt you really want to defend your "ad hominem logical fallacy" post, because that is what you hate - having to define terms and such.

 

[Thumb]

 

[Monster]

Really?

Damn, it is a fucking miracle so many still believe after all your posturing. I wonder why that might be?!? Oh, right, nearly a billion people are just stupid fucking idiots in your simpleton mind.

How did you get that? Show me the logic in getting from this statement to yours of saying it represents truth even to me?

I think the key words in the statement are "still believe", you must think otherwise. I highly doubt you really want to defend your "ad hominem logical fallacy" post, because that is what you hate - having to define terms and such.

Sorry, I have to...

 

[Gulo Blue]

Oh come on now... there are plenty of other reasons to blame Christianity. This is obviously not the only reason he's renounced it.

the same line is used for pedo-priests, all the way up to some of the awful things the Vatican has done throughout history... "boo hoo. don't diss religion, it's just one or two bad apples."

But there are more than enough ties to condemn the whole damn structure though, in addition to its deities. for every Archbishop Romero who has stood with his flock against poverty & oppression, there are many more that stood with the oppressors, or were actively involved in actively oppressing them.

The distinction between the ideas of a religion (the various sets of ideas, since not everyone is one the same page) and the people is a valid one. You lump them together because you don't like the ideas or the people, but don't be surprised when people that do like the ideas make the distinction. This is no true Scotsman territory of course, but it's really difficult to be a true Scotsman. It's even taught that we all fail to be true Scotsmen at times.

 

[Gulo Blue]

here we have an ad hominem logical fallacy, and a bandwagon logical fallacy.

I'm a bad person and lots of people believe in religion, so it must be true...

well I think you're a jerk, and there are almost 1 billion Hindus, and they're a polytheistic religion, so there's an equal opportunity you're wrong.

He is not making the bandwagon logical fallacy. He points to numbers to refute the idea that religious people are all idiots. He's not pointing to 1 out of 7 billion and claiming they are right because of their numbers.

 

[Gulo Blue]

History has proven that most people don't care to know the truth about the Universe when it interferes with their religion. That is a proven fact of life.

Is that actually proven?

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's the religion I have the issue with. Most people are okay. The institution sucks. The pressures that are put on politicians to be a part of that institution is crazy. Look at Obama. The guy isn't a typical Christian and has some liberal views and all of a sudden, he's a muslim or an atheist, depending on who is talking about him. Your religious affiliation shouldn't determine your position in this country and it seems like that is the main requirement. That is a huge part of why I'm becoming more angry toward religion. Don't worry, man. You're okay.

What institution declared him to be a Muslim or an atheist? Is Fox News the head of all religions now?

 

[Gulo Blue]

With the "billion people" statement you did.

You misread it.

 

[Michchamp]

... You lump them together because you don't like the ideas or the people, but don't be surprised when people that do like the ideas make the distinction. ...

It's not just that; for one thing, the clergy, the Church, the Papacy, all claim to hold some divine moral superiority over lay people. That holds no water anymore.

While that rationale is not to say it conclusively proves their god does not exist, or the tenats of their religion are untrue, or anything like that, simply that the proponents of this concept & dogma have been thoroughly discredited by their actions over time.

if the honesty of a witness is discredited in court, no one says "Well, he's a scumbag, but let's not lump his testimony together with his history of repeatedly lying on the record." No, they laugh his ass out of court.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's not just that; for one thing, the clergy, the Church, the Papacy, all claim to hold some divine moral superiority over lay people. That holds no water anymore.

While that rationale is not to say it conclusively proves their god does not exist, or the tenats of their religion are untrue, or anything like that, simply that the proponents of this concept & dogma have been thoroughly discredited by their actions over time.

if the honesty of a witness is discredited in court, no one says "Well, he's a scumbag, but let's not lump his testimony together with his history of repeatedly lying on the record." No, they laugh his ass out of court.

How does that analogy have anything to do with anything?