Trump & Iran

[Michchamp]

I'll make a deal with you. If we end up going to war with Iran and I end up supporting it, I'll enlist right after you write a check to the government for your discretionary income to fund universal healthcare, pledge to give up your kids' seat at whatever college they get into to make way for a black student and pay that student's tuition, voluntarily pay reparations from your own money to black Americans to compensate them for slavery, quit your job and work for one of those firms that appeals cases for people they believe were wrongfully convicted by a systemically racist, unjust system.

put your money, not everyone else's, where your mouth is to pay for all the social programs you support and if I end up supporting a war with Iran, I'll enlist. Man up and start cutting those checks doughboy, or STFU.

All your analogies fail to align with advocating war & not fighting in it.

 

[Michchamp]

Why we fight... link:

the writer here, Stephen Hadley, makes $305K/yr as a director at Raytheon, which built the Multi-Spectral Targeting System for the MQ-9 Reaper drone that killed Soleimani. None of this is disclosed in his "drones actually open the door for diplomacy" take.​

Our government/military industrial complex propaganda would put Stalin-era Pravda to shame.

Biggest brainwashing operation in human history

 

[Michchamp]

Here's a background on Soleimani (link). He sounds a little too much like one of our own generals: largely ineffective and primarily concerned with promoting his own "brand." He was lately in Iraq fighting ISIS, but the Iranians themselves weren't happy with his methods

While the Iranian-led war against ISIS was raging, Iranian spies privately expressed concern that the brutal tactics favored by Suleimani and his Iraqi proxies were laying the groundwork for major blowback against the Iranian presence in Iraq. Suleimani was also criticized for his own alleged self-promotion amid the fighting. Photos of the Iranian commander on battlefields across Iraq had helped build his image as an iconic military leader.
...
A 2014 MOIS document lamented that, partly because Suleimani broadcasted his role as commander of many of the Iraqi Shia militias fighting ISIS, Iraqi Sunnis blamed the Iranian government for the persecution that many were suffering at the hands of these same forces.
​

The article reports Petraeus hated him, which makes sense, because he seems a lot like Petraeus:

After the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Suleimani emerged as the United States?s most capable adversary in that country. His American counterpart at a key point during the occupation, Gen. David Petraeus, described Suleimani as ?a truly evil figure? in a letter to Robert Gates, then the U.S. defense secretary. Over the years, Suleimani gained a reputation as a fearsome military leader who controlled a network of ideologically driven militia proxies across the Middle East.​

It's hard to understand how Suleimani is or was a "terrorist" under our own definition of the word.

By the same logic, the United States committed terrorism when we aided & armed the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan against the USSR.

and if Iran invaded Canada and we aided Canadian resistance against the Iranian forces, we would be terrorists.

I linked to the CIA "deep state" definition of "Terrorism" for fun.

kinda ironic how the "deep state" is evil, and untrustworthy in some quarters when they peddle intel and opposition to Trump, but when they push a war (ANOTHER war...) against a Muslim country, the evidence they present to justify those attacks/or casus belli is viewed as sacrosanct and beyond question...

 

[Spartanmack]

All your analogies fail to align with advocating war & not fighting in it.

no they don't, they highlight your hypocrisy perfectly and I'm not advocating war.

 

[tinselwolverine]

At the risk of being scoffed at...with all the drones and bombs and shit we?ve been lobbing into the Middle East for the last 20 years, I don?t see why this one more is such a big deal.

According to this, the dead guy was a potential target for each of the last two administrations; just nobody pulled the trigger for one reason or other.

As far as fearing Iranian retaliation...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zAT1V-b35tU

These fuckin? people?

For real?

I would feel more threatened by the Three Stooges.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw0riLqQBj0

 

[Michchamp]

no they don't, they perfectly highlight your hypocrisy and I'm not advocating war.

You might think advocating and approving of the assassination of a foreign general is not a case for war because you swallowed your own government's propaganda load that he was a "terrorist" but it seems like neither the Iranians, nor the Iraqis (who just voted us out) see it the same way.

 

[Spartanmack]

You might think advocating and approving of the assassination of a foreign general is not a case for war because you swallowed your own government's propaganda load that he was a "terrorist" but it seems like neither the Iranians, nor the Iraqis (who just voted us out) see it the same way.

I do think approving killing a terrorist is not the same as advocating war. I've said it several times. you dont get to decide what i am or am not advocating for even though your entire reason for posting on this thread relies on just that. Thankfully, we dont rely on the Iranians and/or Iraqis when it comes to determining who is and is not a terrorist - most of us dont anyway. Maybe you should find a politics board where Colin Kaepernick posts and you two idiots can give each other affirmation for your monumentally stupid and wholly unsupported beliefs.

 

[JScottWriter]

Well they have hit some of our bases in Iraq. I am sure anybody could see this coming. Looks like this buffoon got us into a war. Anybody that bought that he did this to not start a war is dumber than he is.

 

[tigermud]

DAWN OF EVIL Incredible ?red devil horns? sunrise photos captured during rare solar eclipse mirage over the Persian Gulf

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10694...se-photos-captured-rare-solar-eclipse-mirage/

 

[sggatecl]

DAWN OF EVIL Incredible ?red devil horns? sunrise photos captured during rare solar eclipse mirage over the Persian Gulf

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10694...se-photos-captured-rare-solar-eclipse-mirage/

I feel like this should be in the astronomy /science section. Mispost?

 

[sggatecl]

Well they have hit some of our bases in Iraq. I am sure anybody could see this coming. Looks like this buffoon got us into a war. Anybody that bought that he did this to not start a war is dumber than he is.

My living room didn't shake and I didn't even lose internet. Oh well. /s

 

[tigermud]

I feel like this should be in the astronomy /science section. Mispost?

No it was in the context of recent war events. Iran struck back tonight but looks confined to targets in iraq, early reports of no us casualties. If I were trump I?d not swing back here and call it a victory.

 

[sggatecl]

At the risk of being scoffed at...with all the drones and bombs and shit we?ve been lobbing into the Middle East for the last 20 years, I don?t see why this one more is such a big deal.

It?s as big as Germany. Sorry. It has about as many people as Germany. Over 80 million. It?s the 18th most populated country on earth.

It?s also the 18th biggest economy in the world as well at about 1.7 Trillion. That?s just behind Canada and Saudi Arabia but hundreds of Billions more than Australia - that underdeveloped defenseless third world country.

I didn?t mean to say it was as big as Germany, it?s not even close. It is over 4 times bigger than Germany. It is a massive country with large portions being inhospitable and impassable mountains and deserts. It is not an exaggeration to say that it?s very land is a fortress.

Invading Iran is invading an economy the size of Texas with nearly 3 times the population and more than twice as much area to cover with 10 times the logistical issues. It would make the Vietnam War seem quaint, short, and clean.

This ignores that this would almost certainly lead to a cascading series of events that would incite massive, possibly global war. Nearly every probable scenario would result in the deaths of millions as a result of the conflict and its secondary impacts. To accomplish what goals???

Tehran, Iran has a larger population than NYC. Both weigh in at just below 9 Million people. Imagine trying to take any action against a city of that size without committing multiple war crimes by accident. Imagine the response to Katrina, but with war. That?s only a tenth of the population.

There are 5 other cities in Iran with populations over 1 million.

There are 60 more cities with population between 100 thousand and 1 million.

If you aren?t terrified of the idea of starting this war I strongly encourage you to speak to a veteran who?s under 80. If the war goes well it would mean years of death and violence on a scale the US has not seen in 2 generations. It won?t go well. I have no idea why we are even considering it.

*edit*

Take it from your girl Tulsi. She was on her new favorite network again.

"Well, we've got to be clear-eyed about the situation that we are in, that.... Speeding towards an all-out war with Iran would make the wars that we've seen in Iraq and in Afghanistan look like a picnic," she said on Fox show The Story With Martha MacCallum. "It will be far more costly in lives, American lives and American taxpayer dollars."

Gabbard went on to say that Trump has worsened American national security in two ways. First, by antagonizing Iran, Trump gave the country a reason to pull out of the international agreement that restricted its development of nuclear weapons. Secondly, U.S. troops in the Middle East will no longer be able to focus on combating the Islamic State militant group (ISIS) and Al-Qaeda if they have to fight Iran's military. This, she argued, could give those two groups an opportunity to resurge.

 

[sggatecl]

No it was in the context of recent war events. Iran struck back tonight but looks confined to targets in iraq, early reports of no us casualties. If I were trump I?d not swing back here and call it a victory.

That eclipse happened the day after Christmas. About 2 weeks ago.

 

[tigermud]

That eclipse happened the day after Christmas. About 2 weeks ago.

Signs in the heavens

 

[JScottWriter]

My brother was stationed at that base about 5 years ago. Just glad he got out before Trump got into office.

 

[tinselwolverine]

It?s as big as Germany. Sorry. It has about as many people as Germany. Over 80 million. It?s the 18th most populated country on earth.

It?s also the 18th biggest economy in the world as well at about 1.7 Trillion. That?s just behind Canada and Saudi Arabia but hundreds of Billions more than Australia - that underdeveloped defenseless third world country.

I didn?t mean to say it was as big as Germany, it?s not even close. It is over 4 times bigger than Germany. It is a massive country with large portions being inhospitable and impassable mountains and deserts. It is not an exaggeration to say that it?s very land is a fortress.

Invading Iran is invading an economy the size of Texas with nearly 3 times the population and more than twice as much area to cover with 10 times the logistical issues. It would make the Vietnam War seem quaint, short, and clean.

This ignores that this would almost certainly lead to a cascading series of events that would incite massive, possibly global war. Nearly every probable scenario would result in the deaths of millions as a result of the conflict and its secondary impacts. To accomplish what goals???

Tehran, Iran has a larger population than NYC. Both weigh in at just below 9 Million people. Imagine trying to take any action against a city of that size without committing multiple war crimes by accident. Imagine the response to Katrina, but with war. That?s only a tenth of the population.

There are 5 other cities in Iran with populations over 1 million.

There are 60 more cities with population between 100 thousand and 1 million.

If you aren?t terrified of the idea of starting this war I strongly encourage you to speak to a veteran who?s under 80. If the war goes well it would mean years of death and violence on a scale the US has not seen in 2 generations. It won?t go well. I have no idea why we are even considering it.

*edit*

Take it from your girl Tulsi. She was on her new favorite network again.

There?s not going to be a war with Iran.

 

[sggatecl]

There?s not going to be a war with Iran.

Define war.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Define war.

I quoted you ?if you aren?t terrified of the idea of starting this war...?

Are you claiming (defining) that a war has begun?

 

[Spartanmack]

Well they have hit some of our bases in Iraq. I am sure anybody could see this coming. Looks like this buffoon got us into a war. Anybody that bought that he did this to not start a war is dumber than he is.

Iran is the world's largest state sponsor of terror, that is undisputed by even the UN - only Iran disputes it even though they also brag about it. They have been attacking US interesting directly and indirectly throughout the region for years. This isn't war, this is basically just another Tuesday.

Would you prefer the US not act on intelligence indicating Soleimani was actively planning attacks against US interests and just let him act on those plans? If Americans died because of that and it came out we knew about it and we had a chance to kill him, how different would your posts be here? Would you be glad that US troops and civilians were left vulnerable to terrorist attack and lauding the president for showing restraint in allowing a terrorist to live so he could kill more Americans and more innocent civilians?