Trump's immigration plan estimated to cost $235 BILLION

[Spartanmack]

No, what will happen is produce will double since you can't pay pepe $25 a day to work his ass off so the cost of healthy food will rise. we'll continue to subsidize corn so all the doctors treating type 2 diabetes can afford the expensive vegetables

But your team says that raising the minimum wage doesn't cause inflation or unemployment - michturd specifically told us that econ 101 doesn't work in the real world. Who was it who said "you can't have it both ways"? Oh yeah, that was you. Or are you saying that raising migrant farmers to the minimum wage will double the cost of produce but increasing the minimum wage itself will have no discernible affect? Maybe you're saying raising wages is only inflationary when it's limited to a single industry and when you to it at a macro level, prices are unaffected. Man, I had no idea how complicated economics can be.

By the way, where do you get your numbers from? How do you know it will double and not triple or worse? Are those estimates from the "nonpartisan" CBO or were they pulled out of your ass, or maybe you read it in an article from one of those mouth breathers like Matt Taibbi or Ezra Klein.

 

[Sbee]

But your team says that raising the minimum wage doesn't cause inflation or unemployment - michturd specifically told us that econ 101 doesn't work in the real world. Who was it who said "you can't have it both ways"? Oh yeah, that was you. Or are you saying that raising migrant farmers to the minimum wage will double the cost of produce but increasing the minimum wage itself will have no discernible affect? Maybe you're saying raising wages is only inflationary when it's limited to a single industry and when you to it at a macro level, prices are unaffected. Man, I had no idea how complicated economics can be.

By the way, where do you get your numbers from? How do you know it will double and not triple or worse? Are those estimates from the "nonpartisan" CBO or were they pulled out of your ass, or maybe you read it in an article from one of those mouth breathers like Matt Taibbi or Ezra Klein.

my point is that you can't have it both ways with illegals. You can't want them all thrown out of the country and then complain when everything costs more, your food, lawn care, greens fees, hotel rooms, etc. saying it will double is an estimate but again, the prices we pay for goods and services are artificially low due to illegal immigrant labor. there are 3 million migrant workers in the country, 48% of them illegal. I don't know if you average american is going to spend 9 hours carrying big buckets weighing up to 40lbs around all day for about 15k per year.

 

[tinselwolverine]

there are 3 million migrant workers in the country, 48% of them illegal. I don't know if you average american is going to spend 9 hours carrying big buckets weighing up to 40lbs around all day for about 15k per year.

Why can't the 52% who are legal just double up and carry 80 pounds around all day?

 

[Gulo Blue]

I don't know if you average american is going to spend 9 hours carrying big buckets weighing up to 40lbs around all day for about 15k per year.

That's part of it. That $15k is only worth it to anyone if they have someone in another country to send it to where the value of a dollar is different. The price of labor here is impacted by the cost of living there. Apply a little econ 101 to that situation and where does it leave us?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Why can't the 52% who are legal just double up and carry 80 pounds around all day?

They can if we build them exoskeletons.

 

[Sbee]

But your team says that raising the minimum wage doesn't cause inflation or unemployment - michturd specifically told us that econ 101 doesn't work in the real world. Who was it who said "you can't have it both ways"? Oh yeah, that was you. Or are you saying that raising migrant farmers to the minimum wage will double the cost of produce but increasing the minimum wage itself will have no discernible affect? Maybe you're saying raising wages is only inflationary when it's limited to a single industry and when you to it at a macro level, prices are unaffected. Man, I had no idea how complicated economics can be.

By the way, where do you get your numbers from? How do you know it will double and not triple or worse? Are those estimates from the "nonpartisan" CBO or were they pulled out of your ass, or maybe you read it in an article from one of those mouth breathers like Matt Taibbi or Ezra Klein.

also, i do believe that raising the minimum wage will cause some level of inflation and unemployment, not sure to what degree but obvious goods and services costs will go up and that will drive the CPI up. Some employers may have to let some staff go or raise prices. Again, I've always been on the side of paying the true costs of goods and services. I'd like to see an economy where full time employees would have a wage that would not qualify for any kind of public assistance so the taxpayer wouldn't be subsidizing their compensation. it should be paid for by the company based on the costs paid by the consumer.

this is all about the age old economic question of what % of revenues should go to ownership and what should go to labor. I think over time that gets out of proportion and needs some kind of adjustment given the wealth gap we have now, I just don't have a great strategy as to how to implement a system where that happens I don't like subsidizing the profits of highly profitable companies through my tax dollars, you shouldn't either.

 

[tinselwolverine]

They can if we build them exoskeletons.

And I suppose Donald Trump is going to make the Mexican government pay for THAT, too?

 

[Gulo Blue]

And I suppose Donald Trump is going to make the Mexican government pay for THAT, too?

They'll be made in China. Trump says he knows how to deal with them.

 

[Michchamp]

And I suppose Donald Trump is going to make the Mexican government pay for THAT, too?

Plays well wiht the "dey took er JOBS!" crowd, of which the pandering to seems to be all-important if you're running for the GOP nom these days.

 

[Sbee]

I love the comment about bringing manufacturing back from China, those jobs are long gone and not coming back.

 

[Spartanmack]

also, i do believe that raising the minimum wage will cause some level of inflation and unemployment, not sure to what degree but obvious goods and services costs will go up and that will drive the CPI up. Some employers may have to let some staff go or raise prices. Again, I've always been on the side of paying the true costs of goods and services. I'd like to see an economy where full time employees would have a wage that would not qualify for any kind of public assistance so the taxpayer wouldn't be subsidizing their compensation. it should be paid for by the company based on the costs paid by the consumer.

this is all about the age old economic question of what % of revenues should go to ownership and what should go to labor. I think over time that gets out of proportion and needs some kind of adjustment given the wealth gap we have now, I just don't have a great strategy as to how to implement a system where that happens I don't like subsidizing the profits of highly profitable companies through my tax dollars, you shouldn't either.

But you can't have it both ways - if you pay everyone what it costs to live (nearly impossible unless you also control how many kids they have and what they buy), then in some cases you'd have to force employers to pay more than the labor is worth. The true cost of labor is not what it costs to feed and house workers and their families - at least not directly. It will factor into the decisions of providers of labor but ultimately it comes down to what they're willing to accept for their efforts.

I've never come across the question of how to divide revenues between owners and labor in any of my economics studies. If that question is indeed age old, it's being posed by politicians or more accurately, central planners, not economists. Labor is an input like oil, steel, cotton, etc. It should clear at the intersection of supply and demand. I don't look at welfare as a profit subsidy for corporations. To me it's a negative consequence of the destruction of the manufacturing sector in this country. As unions and other forces drove up the price of labor and high corporate taxes further hurt American competitiveness, skilled labor jobs left the country. Now people want to make cashier and stock boy jobs career positions and are blaming WalMart and Target for the swelling welfare rolls. It's absurd.

 

[Spartanmack]

They can if we build them exoskeletons.

We can bring in porters from Nepal - 40lbs would be a day at the beach for them and $15k lifetimes worth of earnings.

 

[Michchamp]

We can bring in porters from Nepal - 40lbs would be a day at the beach for them and $15k lifetimes worth of earnings.

that's great?

 

[sggatecl]

Link. But subtract $20BB from the cost if he somehow gets Mexico to agree to pay for the wall he wants to build... seems realistic. I'm sure they'll just fork over the money because of his amazing negotiation skills.

$20BB - est. cost of the wall
$15BB - est. cost to staff up ICE to completely monitor the border, wall, etc. (on top of their already ~$6BB budget)
$200BB - est. cost to round up, process, and deport every immigrant estimated to be currently residing in the US.

someone should tell Trump he can't run the US government like he runs his businesses... you can't just build and buy what you want, then file a Chapter 11 and not pay for it. This is all so absurd he gets away with throwing these soundbites out and enjoys positive PR for them. Like the saying about underestimating the intelligence of the American public goes, there are just too few critical thinkers & skeptics out there. heck, among some portions of the GOP base, both those qualities are considered negative, if not bad and evil.

AAAAaaand so the GOP Clown Car shows no signs of slowing down anytime soon...

Quite possibly the worst idea since Abe Lincoln saying "I'm sick of staying in, let's go catch a show."

 

[Spartanmack]

that's great?

That's sarcasm.

 

[Sbee]

Quite possibly the worst idea since Abe Lincoln saying "I'm sick of staying in, let's go catch a show."

None of this is feasible, taking the wages of illegal immigrants to fund the wall? This is just a glimpse of the kind of policy you'd see from trump, but your average angry old white guy doesn't want to be bothered by those details.

 

[Spartanmack]

You mean your average angry old white guy like Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal - those angry old white guys? Or do you mean angry old white guys like Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Al Gore or Hillary Clinton. Is it willful ignorance or just a convenient disregard for facts and reality so you can perpetuate absurd stereotypes?

 

[Sbee]

You mean your average angry old white guy like Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal - those angry old white guys? Or do you mean angry old white guys like Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Al Gore or Hillary Clinton. Is it willful ignorance or just a convenient disregard for facts and reality so you can perpetuate absurd stereotypes?

It has more to do with their message than their demographic, but old white guys love the republican party. Romney won men, whites, those making over 100k, voters 45-64 and over 65. the older you are and whiter you are the more likely you are to vote for a republican, I don't see that as really up for debate.

 

[Gulo Blue]

but old white guys love the republican party.

Your perception is probably outdated.

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/party-identification-trends-1992-2014/#generation

 

[Sbee]

Your perception is probably outdated.

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/party-identification-trends-1992-2014/#generation

I don't see a lot in those numbers that contradicts what I think. Are you saying that old white guys lean left?