Turns out WE actually live in the "shithole country"

[Michchamp]

Now, on a more positive note, how NON-SHITHOLE countries operate, a case study (Mongolia):

Mongolia has had the best COVID-19 response in the world. Not only do they have zero deaths, they have zero local transmissions. Mongolia didn?t flatten the curve or crush the curve ? they were just like ?fuck curves?. In Mongolia, there simply wasn't an epidemic at all.

And no, they didn?t just get lucky.

Starting in January, Mongolia executed a perfect public health response, and they have never let up the pressure since. COVID-19 did not just leave Mongolia alone. Mongolia kicked its ass.

For this all this hard work, however, they get little credit. Nobody?s talking about the ?Mongolian example?. Instead, we talk about total failures like Germany or Sweden. Like I?ve said, success is ZERO, and Mongolia is as zero as you can get.
​

WHOA! So how did they do this?

They just saw what was happening in Hubei, they coordinated with China and the WHO, and they got their shit together fast. That?s their secret, not the elevation. They just weren?t dumb.
...

Some people think the WHO is like a paramilitary organization, busting into countries, investigating, telling everyone what to do. That?s not how they work. They?re just there to help. You have to listen to them, and you have to let them in. Mongolia did. On January 22nd, the Mongolian Health Ministry held a press briefing with the WHO to announce that shit was real.
​

We all know what Trump and the diddlefucks in his cabinet were doing and saying back in January... hell even through the end of March. Even NOW.

It's all part of the public record.

January 26

Another thing to note, Mongolia had zero cases at this point. Everyone was looking at a global dumpster fire being like, ?well, my dumpster?s not on fire.? This was dumb. Mongolia was smart.

Three days after Hubei, the Mongolian cabinet held a special meeting, because they were taking this seriously. At this meeting, they decided to:

• Close universities
• Restrict vehicle crossings (not yet rail or air)
• Prohibit public events
• Release funds for medical equipment and personnel

Can you imagine our government functioning like that, instead of immediately letting the corporate lobbyists into the room to siphon off public money where they want, and cabinet members seizing medical equipment to sell to the highest bidder?

I SURE AS HELL CAN'T!

The rest of the article is even more infuriating when you compare what Mongolia did to what our Shithole Country did.

OH... and the article is dated May 18th. Think Mongolia just got lucky and has been hit hard since then?

Look at the Johns Hopkins data from today. Their line is still flat.

There is hope for humanity... you just won't find it in the United States.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Mongolia keeping the China flu out just proves the effectiveness of walls.


Hmmm...maybe Mexico should think about paying for one.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Mongolia keeping the China flu out just proves the effectiveness of walls.


Hmmm...maybe Mexico should think about paying for one.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NNYCIz59YTQ

 

[Spartanmack]

How shithole countries operate - a case study:

Email correspondence and interviews with more than a dozen state and local officials in Utah show that the health of the state’s businesses was prioritized over the health of the public, as officials stopped slowing the spread of the virus and instead calculated how many sick people its health system could bear.
...
​

And ignored how many would die...?

That's literally what EVERY state did, calculate how many sick people the health system could accommodate. That's why we got the lockdowns - because the math indicated hospitals would be overwhelmed but in reality very few actually were, most weren't even close. It's also what every other country in the world did. And those with lockdowns didn't necessarily fare better than those without them, like Sweden for example. Utah's experience has been a lot closer to Sweden's than it has to NY or NJ.

it's still shocking - even for cynics like me - to see how elected officials have openly expressed a total lack of concern for American lives... these are people who in theory should be accountable to voters, and they're perfectly comfortable publicly telling people to go die; they are willing to feed bodies into "the machine" to keep the gears greased.

With key health experts cut out of the decision-making process, including the state epidemiologist and local officials who were stripped of their ability to issue their own restrictions, the governor and the commission quickly swept aside restrictions meant to slow the virus’s advance in Utah. You can now hold indoor events with up to 3,000 people and outdoor events with up to 6,000. You can drink at bars, eat in restaurants and go to the movies.
...
And in Utah, infections are rising. The percentage of tests that come back positive is at 10% as of July 13, compared with 3% to 5% in April. On July 14, the state reported its highest number of deaths on a single day since the pandemic began. Since late May, the seven-day average of daily case counts statewide has quadrupled.

Utah’s story is mirrored in states across the country, where leaders sidelined public health experts and forged ahead without meeting criteria scientists say are necessary to reopen.
​

by ignoring COVID-19, they're not helping "the economy," they're destroying it.

This is a totally dysfunctional, corrupted political system.

Not sure why your hair is on fire over this. Have you looked at the data out of Utah? or are you just screaming bloody murder because it's a red State that didn't initiate the policies you think they should have? Because it's not exactly a hot spot with almost 36k confirmed cases and 260 deaths, if you believe the 260 number isn't overstated. Compare that to states everyone is raving about like NY and NJ 413k/32.4k and 118k/15.7k, respectively. You're on here screaming about how those f'n Utah assholes want everyone to die while Cuomo and Murphy who literally killed thousands of people are being treated like heroes.

 

[mhughes0021]

Cali is beating new york now. They reported that only 7% of tests comming back as positive. % is obviously being driven down by the large number of testing they are doing here. We keep "shattering" daily records of new cases reported.

Just keep doing what youre doing americans....80% of the deaths comming from people over 65. Theyll all be gone and we will have all the 20-25 year old millenials left that just sit in their room with no drivers license beating off over a head set to some dude pretending to be a girl. Shithole country...

Meanwhile the chinese 20 - 25 yr olds have been working the last 20 years and are hacking into all of our Covid Vaccine databases.

 

[Michchamp]

That's literally what EVERY state did, calculate how many sick people the health system could accommodate. That's why we got the lockdowns - because the math indicated hospitals would be overwhelmed but in reality very few actually were, most weren't even close... .

Read more carefully... what you bolded happened AFTER the lockdowns, when they decided to open things back up.


And yes, I know that's what ever state did. That's why I called it a case study. More or less every state, except WA, has been equally bad, as big business runs amok and dictates policy for its own benefit even in Democratically governed states.


That's why we're a shithole country.

Not sure why your hair is on fire over this. Have you looked at the data out of Utah? or are you just screaming bloody murder because it's a red State that didn't initiate the policies you think they should have? Because it's not exactly a hot spot with almost 36k confirmed cases and 260 deaths, if you believe the 260 number isn't overstated. ...

just give it time.

 

[Michchamp]

I'll add, I think Ohio's response was actually decent, at least early on, from what I remember. DeWine seems like a reasonable Republitard.



So some of you don't attribute this all to partisan politics, I will happily note that Cuomo and DeBlasio managed an absolutely atrocious response, quite possibly the worse in the country, as evidenced by the pile of dead bodies.



Cuomo shipping people to nursing homes, then passing a bill to shield those same nursing homes from litigation (spartanmack, I'm sure u approve of that part tho) after they dumped money on him... awful. What a shithole country. The fact that even our "liberal" "anti-business" "pro-regulation" party - in a blue state no less - is beholden to big business and corporate money shows what a shithole country we are!

 

[Spartanmack]

Read more carefully... what you bolded happened AFTER the lockdowns, when they decided to open things back up.


And yes, I know that's what ever state did. That's why I called it a case study. More or less every state, except WA, has been equally bad, as big business runs amok and dictates policy for its own benefit even in Democratically governed states.


That's why we're a shithole country.






just give it time.

I didn't bold it, you did. But it doesn't matter - that is something they should be monitoring throughout the pandemic as they make decisions about what to open and when. the rest of this is pure nonsense. It's not at all clear that the lockdowns did anything for the virus - South Dakota had an outbreak that they were able to contain without a lockdown. Sweden, same thing. This is not big business run amok, it's the realization that we couldn't stay locked down much longer let alone, forever. it doesn't matter that you don't have the data on your side - you'll never be satisfied until everything is nationalized and we are actually living in a shithole country.

 

[Michchamp]

... It's not at all clear that the lockdowns did anything for the virus - South Dakota had an outbreak that they were able to contain without a lockdown. Sweden, same thing.....

The lockdowns most likely prevented NY/NJ level deaths from erupting across the country. Look at what's happened since then.

South Dakota... wha? It's in the middle of the country, and no one travels there. Of course they didn't get hit by a communicable disease outbreak primarily spread by international travelers when everyone else did. Great example.

And Sweden didn't contain it. That was pro-business nonsense getting spread by some Swedish business org.

I guess you've had your head stuck in a bucket since April, maybe? I've been reading much to the contrary during that time.

April 2020 - Graph shows Sweden?s coronavirus death toll rapidly increasing compared to other countries.

April 20, 2020 - Sweden has nearly 10 times the number of COVID-19-related deaths than its Nordic neighbors. Here's where it went wrong.

May 2, 2020 -Is Sweden's Covid-19 Handling a Failure or a Success? (short answer: failure. "Sweden's Covid-19 deaths per capita are 3 to 6 times its Nordic neighbors.") Just a few more deaths... that shouldn't trouble a "pro-lifer?"

May 7, 2020 -Sweden?s chief scientist admits lessons have been learned over no-lockdown policy (at least he admits it)

May 15, 2020 - Sweden Stayed Open. A Deadly Month Shows the Risks.

In fact staying open probably cost them a hell of a lot more...

June 22, 2020 -Sweden Tries Out a New Status: Pariah State - "Fearing the country?s lax approach to combating the coronavirus, Sweden?s Scandinavian neighbors have all closed their borders to Swedes."

Wonder what the economic costs of having your borders closed is? You're a math & economic genius (and expert on everything else)... I'm sure you can figure that out for us. Pretty please with a cherry on top?

 

[Spartanmack]

The lockdowns most likely prevented NY/NJ level deaths from erupting across the country. Look at what's happened since then.

South Dakota... wha? It's in the middle of the country, and no one travels there. Of course they didn't get hit by a communicable disease outbreak primarily spread by international travelers when everyone else did. Great example.

And Sweden didn't contain it. That was pro-business nonsense getting spread by some Swedish business org.

I guess you've had your head stuck in a bucket since April, maybe? I've been reading much to the contrary during that time.

April 2020 - Graph shows Sweden?s coronavirus death toll rapidly increasing compared to other countries.

April 20, 2020 - Sweden has nearly 10 times the number of COVID-19-related deaths than its Nordic neighbors. Here's where it went wrong.

May 2, 2020 -Is Sweden's Covid-19 Handling a Failure or a Success? (short answer: failure. "Sweden's Covid-19 deaths per capita are 3 to 6 times its Nordic neighbors.") Just a few more deaths... that shouldn't trouble a "pro-lifer?"

May 7, 2020 -Sweden?s chief scientist admits lessons have been learned over no-lockdown policy (at least he admits it)

May 15, 2020 - Sweden Stayed Open. A Deadly Month Shows the Risks.

In fact staying open probably cost them a hell of a lot more...

June 22, 2020 -Sweden Tries Out a New Status: Pariah State - "Fearing the country?s lax approach to combating the coronavirus, Sweden?s Scandinavian neighbors have all closed their borders to Swedes."

Wonder what the economic costs of having your borders closed is? You're a math & economic genius (and expert on everything else)... I'm sure you can figure that out for us. Pretty please with a cherry on top?

you have absolutely no basis for saying what the lockdowns likely did - the NY/NJ experience was among the absolute worst in the country and they were one of the first to lockdown.

Yeah, South Dakota. Despite being in the middle of the country where no one goes, they had an outbreak at a poultry plant - didn't hear about that? perhaps you've had your head in a bucket. Anyway, they were able to contain it without a massive lockdown. By the way, seems pretty odd to be so dismissive of the South Dakota experience for a guy who highlights Mongolia as the shining example of how to handle a pandemic.

As for Sweden, and Utah, maybe you should follow your own advice and give it time.

 

[Michchamp]

...

As for Sweden, and Utah, maybe you should follow your own advice and give it time.

Huh?

Sweden's so bad it's neighbors already closed borders with it. They need more time?

 

[mhughes0021]

Huh?

Sweden's so bad it's neighbors already closed borders with it. They need more time?

Sweden literally just broadcasted to the rest of the world "dont do what we did...it was a mistake."

Countries like that were hoping for herd immunity. Scientists are now finding there is no such thing with antibodies in most people going away in around 90 days.

 

[Gulo Blue]

https://www.wilx.com/2020/07/28/nor...nd-breakfast-over-confederate-flag-confusion/

The link is a sufficient summary.


norwegian-flag-removed-from-saint-johns-bed-and-breakfast-over-confederate-flag-confusion

 

[Michchamp]

https://www.wilx.com/2020/07/28/nor...nd-breakfast-over-confederate-flag-confusion/

The link is a sufficient summary.


norwegian-flag-removed-from-saint-johns-bed-and-breakfast-over-confederate-flag-confusion

I wish articles like this started including more evidence:

?We started to have this concern that it was deterring people away from coming to our bed and breakfast,? Offbecker said. ?That they would see it and make this judgement.?

Offbecker said she was trying to represent her heritage, but it?s not worth the frustration. She said they have received cruel emails and phone calls over the confusion of the flag.
​

Really? How many? From who? Until we know, it's better to ignore this.


I'm not putting this on one side or another until I know more.

 

[Spartanmack]

Huh?

Sweden's so bad it's neighbors already closed borders with it. They need more time?

Sweden literally just broadcasted to the rest of the world "dont do what we did...it was a mistake."

Countries like that were hoping for herd immunity. Scientists are now finding there is no such thing with antibodies in most people going away in around 90 days.

I don't think anyone from Sweden ever said anything like that - in fact, they probably said the opposite based on their results.

Based on this table updated Feb 2, 2023 Sweden's per capita death rate from COVID is 47th in the world, 18% below the average for the European union and well below heavy lock down states in Europe like the UK, Italy, Spain and France. Sweden is a model for how to deal with the pandemic without destroying your economy, families, businesses, etc and not set kids development and education back years.

Interesting to note - In October of 2021 Sweden halted the use of Moderna's COVID vaccine for anyone under 30. In January of 2022, Sweden stopped recommending any COVID vaccines for kids under 12. They probably did that because they read my posts on DSF because they never would have if they were following the science.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't think anyone from Sweden ever said anything like that - in fact, they probably said the opposite based on their results.

Based on this table updated Feb 2, 2023 Sweden's per capita death rate from COVID is 47th in the world, 18% below the average for the European union and well below heavy lock down states in Europe like the UK, Italy, Spain and France.

Interesting to note - In October of 2021 Sweden halted the use of Moderna's COVID vaccine for anyone under 30. In January of 2022, Sweden stopped recommending any COVID vaccines for kids under 12. They probably did that because they read my posts on DSF because they never would have if they were following the science.

Sweden has fewer people and tourism than those other places, and is less densely populated.

If You compare Sweden to the other Nordics - a more reasonable measure of whether the lockdowns worked, and the numbers are a lot less favorable.

This is from August 2021:

It (Sweden) now has up to 10 times as many COVID-19 deaths per capita as its Nordic neighbors.

...

Sweden has recorded more COVID-19 cases per capita than most countries so far: Since the start of the pandemic, roughly 11 out of every 100 people in Sweden have been diagnosed with COVID-19, compared with 9.4 out of every 100 in the UK and 7.4 per 100 in Italy. Sweden has also recorded around 145 COVID-19 deaths for every 100,000 people ? around three times more than Denmark, eight times more than Finland, and nearly 10 times more than Norway.​

And of course, nowhere locked down very heavily, despite what whiners like you claimed. There was still plenty of commerce going on all this time, and everyone was more or less going back to normal, albeit masked within a year, and unmasked over the last year or two.

Fuck, Texas was back to normal like 6 months into 2020. no masks even at schools in 2021-22.

It's unbelievable you're trying to claim not taking preparations against an airborne virus you breathe in from other people in enclosed spaces saves more lives than taking precautions (ie masks, and lockdowns) against it. Just mind boggling how anyone could think that. It makes absolutely no sense. It's like magical thinking.

 

[Spartanmack]

Sweden has fewer people and tourism than those other places, and is less densely populated.

If You compare Sweden to the other Nordics - a more reasonable measure of whether the lockdowns worked, and the numbers are a lot less favorable.

This is from August 2021:

It (Sweden) now has up to 10 times as many COVID-19 deaths per capita as its Nordic neighbors.

...

Sweden has recorded more COVID-19 cases per capita than most countries so far: Since the start of the pandemic, roughly 11 out of every 100 people in Sweden have been diagnosed with COVID-19, compared with 9.4 out of every 100 in the UK and 7.4 per 100 in Italy. Sweden has also recorded around 145 COVID-19 deaths for every 100,000 people ? around three times more than Denmark, eight times more than Finland, and nearly 10 times more than Norway.​

And of course, nowhere locked down very heavily, despite what whiners like you claimed. There was still plenty of commerce going on all this time, and everyone was more or less going back to normal, albeit masked within a year, and unmasked over the last year or two.

Fuck, Texas was back to normal like 6 months into 2020. no masks even at schools in 2021-22.

It's unbelievable you're trying to claim not taking preparations against an airborne virus you breathe in from other people in enclosed spaces saves more lives than taking precautions (ie masks, and lockdowns) against it. Just mind boggling how anyone could think that. It makes absolutely no sense. It's like magical thinking.

What's unbelievable is you're using almost 2 year old data and making arguments like Sweden should only be compared to other nordic countries. We live in a global society. Sweden has the 22nd largest economy in the world and gets plenty of international travel, exchange of goods, etc and Norway and Denmark are half the size of Sweden. It's hilarious that you're making this meaningless, nonsensical "Sweden gets less tourism" argument when you're the guy who tried to highlight Mongolia as the gold standard for dealing with a pandemic. Did you forget about that?

If you're going to compare them to anyone, try using deaths rather than infections since COVID has a really high survival rate. And it's 2023, try using data that isn't 2 years old. Then maybe even a partisan idiot like yourself can see that what you and the other moron said about Sweden was dead wrong.

Also, I'm not claiming anything like what you say I am. I'm pointing out that the precautions you demanded didn't get better results than other better, more targeted precautions that didn't also have very serious negative consequences. Good straw man though.

 

[Spartanmack]

It's unbelievable you're trying to claim not taking preparations against an airborne virus you breathe in from other people in enclosed spaces saves more lives than taking precautions (ie masks, and lockdowns) against it. Just mind boggling how anyone could think that. It makes absolutely no sense. It's like magical thinking.

LOLOLOLOL, god timing in this one?

A few gems from the piece?

?Results indicated that surgical masks reduced the risk of catching 'Covid or a flu-like illness' by just five percent - a figure so low it may not be statistically significant.?

?The researchers said harms caused by masks - including hampering children's schooling - were poorly measured in the studies, meaning any small benefit on infection rates may be outweighed.?

? Some of the researchers involved in the Cochrane review previously analyzed the evidence on masks in November 2020.

That review was criticized because it did not include any studies from the Covid pandemic due to limited research at the time.?

? A separate Danish study in the spring of 2020 with over 6,000 participants found that wearing a mask made no statistical difference to whether or not people got Covid. But its researchers struggled to find a prominent journal willing to publish the results.?

 

[tomdalton22]

LOLOLOLOL,

I do believe that wearing a mask did very little to prevent the person wearing it from getting covid. I do think that people that had covid and wore a mask was beneficial in helping to limit the spread to other people.

I also believe that the lockdowns weren't necessary and the entire thing was handled very poorly.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Sweden literally just broadcasted to the rest of the world "dont do what we did...it was a mistake."

Countries like that were hoping for herd immunity. Scientists are now finding there is no such thing with antibodies in most people going away in around 90 days.

No, they didn?t.

Not in the least.

You claimed they made the same statement two years ago and it wasn?t true then and it isn?t true now.

You cannot post a link supporting your claim because it?s just bull crap.

Just like you couldn?t two years ago.