Ukraine

[Michchamp]

MSM coverage of this has really dropped off the table. Global famine projected to start this summer/fall resulting from this putin mistake klaus wants us all to eat bugs.

well, Russia's pretty much winning easily, and many (or most) of the billions of dollars worth of weapons we're shipping their are disappearing and getting resold on the black market... who wants to draw attention to either thing?

 

[biggunsbob]

Episode 8

https://youtu.be/FZioTavNy3c

 

[sggatecl]

Putin's first address to nation since invasion 'delayed' - with leader set to announce escalation of war amid 'chaos' in Kremlin

A respected thinktank has described "panic" in the Kremlin over the situation in Luhansk and Donetsk; Russia is to hold referendums in occupied areas across Ukraine; and a new law in Moscow has mentioned mobilisation and martial law - suggesting Vladimir Putin could impose conscription.

 

[Michchamp]

if you want a fairer view of this conflict, try going with an Indian or Chinese source, I think.

if a country is a member of NATO, their media is wholly in the tank for propping up Ukraine so we can continue to send gobs of money to "support" them, of course by buying more bombs, shells, rockets, drones, etc. from our own arms dealers/contractors

 

[tomdalton22]

if you want a fairer view of this conflict, try going with an Indian or Chinese source, I think.

if a country is a member of NATO, their media is wholly in the tank for propping up Ukraine so we can continue to send gobs of money to "support" them, of course by buying more bombs, shells, rockets, drones, etc. from our own arms dealers/contractors

I don't really follow the Chinese news outlets, but aren't they pretty much run by the Chinese government?

 

[Michchamp]

I don't really follow the Chinese news outlets, but aren't they pretty much run by the Chinese government?

yeah. so?

ours are more or less run by our government, and our government & NATO are active participants in this conflict.

china and india aren't and have taken more neutral stances, ergo if you want a more unbiased view of what's happening, I'd look for english language sources from either of those countries.

 

[tomdalton22]

yeah. so?

ours are more or less run by our government, and our government & NATO are active participants in this conflict.

china and india aren't and have taken more neutral stances, ergo if you want a more unbiased view of what's happening, I'd look for english language sources from either of those countries.

Our news outlets aren't run by the government. I think our news agencies are definitely biased toward party affiliation, but not run by the government like the Chinese news organizations seem to be.

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't trust most of the popular press in the US but the idea that we should look to China for an unbiased or "fairer" view of anything made me laugh out loud.

 

[sggatecl]

if you want a fairer view of this conflict, try going with an Indian or Chinese source, I think.

if a country is a member of NATO, their media is wholly in the tank for propping up Ukraine so we can continue to send gobs of money to "support" them, of course by buying more bombs, shells, rockets, drones, etc. from our own arms dealers/contractors

That's a little too much tin foil for me to believe. I don't know much about Sky, seemed relatively harmless.

Reuters is basically reporting the same thing.

And you won't convince me that Reuters is in the business of propping up war a la CNN, Fox, etc.

I am curious though, do you have an Indian or Chinese source you frequent? I wouldn't even know where to look.

 

[Michchamp]

That's a little too much tin foil for me to believe. I don't know much about Sky, seemed relatively harmless.

Reuters is basically reporting the same thing.

And you won't convince me that Reuters is in the business of propping up war a la CNN, Fox, etc.

I am curious though, do you have an Indian or Chinese source you frequent? I wouldn't even know where to look.

The amount of stories of Ukrainian victories or heroics that have been retracted or quietly dropped since this began is well in the double digits now.

Unless it's being reported in a neutral state's media, I wouldn't automatically trust it. I've seen stories in the South China Morning Post viewed as credible by commentators with a more proven track record here. They have an article up now on Ukraine that doesn't mention a possible Russian draft, but does note there's increasing international opposition to Russia now that they're talking of annexing provinces further west than the first couple.

Note that if you look at a map, Zaporizhia is well inside Ukraine (or what was Ukraine), which belies some of the Ukrainian claims of driving Russians back.

I've been following this whole thing more closely than just clicking stories in US media when they pop up, and don't really want to get into it, posting sources, b/c I don't feel like getting dragged into pointless arguments about it.

There are also a handful of US sources critical of our own government here and more in the weeds on what's going on: Scott Ritter, Larry Johnson, off teh top of my head.

Seth Harp wrote a couple articles critical of the claims about western veterans going over there, and got a lot of flack for that.

It's really surreal, to see some of the pro-Ukrainian posters on Reddit and Twitter drive off posts critical of Ukraine or mob/threaten others , and you realize your'fe seeing wartime propaganda happen in real time

 

[sggatecl]

It's really surreal, to see some of the pro-Ukrainian posters on Reddit and Twitter drive off posts critical of Ukraine or mob/threaten others , and you realize your'fe seeing wartime propaganda happen in real time

I don't touch Twitter but Reddit is about as left wing as it gets outside of a couple sub reddits. That doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[biggunsbob]

Russia recruiting prisoners possibly.

https://youtu.be/kYT-3hOYDBQ

 

[Michchamp]

Putin's first address to nation since invasion 'delayed' - with leader set to announce escalation of war amid 'chaos' in Kremlin

Apparently his call up of 300K reservists is confirmed (I read a translation from the Kremlin's site this morning). The rest of the language around it is highly subjective.

I do not take any western claims that Russia is escalating it seriously. We started it in 2014, and have a gun to the Ukrainians' (proverbial) back whenever they've tried to negotiate an end to it.

This was from May.

And as far as nuclear threats go, Ukraine has been the ones shelling the nuclear plant in Zaporizhia, which is now under Russian control, which is incredibly reckless, but the media here never reports who's doing the shelling.

The whole thing stinks.

Also I've read A LOT about how badly things are going for regular europeans due to the loss of Russia's cheap gas and oil (as part of their counter sanctions). That's not being reported amidst these constant declarations the Russians are about to collapse.

There really is a 1984-esque slant to all the propaganda.

I'm curious why the Russians are calling up reserves, since they're still easily holding all the Ukrainian territory they want, and winter's almost here with the potential mass riots in Europe against heating and fuel costs..

Possibly the Russians plan to take another bite of Ukraine & hold more?

 

[Michchamp]

Russia recruiting prisoners possibly.

https://youtu.be/kYT-3hOYDBQ

For context, Ukraine already did this in February and March. There was a lot of reporting on that.

 

[Spartanmack]

what are you talking about? The European energy crisis is being widely covered. Today alone there are headlines about Germany spending billions to nationalize a major gas importer after already pumping cash into it and 2 others to bail them out. Also in the headlines is the UK bailouts of energy sector companies all because of the disruption of Russian gas being taken off the market.

Literally every story talks about the shortages and rising cost of gas and energy in general and the impact on consumers throughout Europe. It has all been widely covered for weeks if not months already. What's not covered very much is WHY they're so dependent on natural gas from Russia. That of course is because Europe has almost completely abandoned nuclear energy (and coal) because of all the climate propaganda. They're listening to and making policy based on the tantrums of whiny high school kids and now they're pretending it's Putin's fault they are all going to freeze this winter. They've completely f'd themselves by knowingly making themselves totally dependent on corrupt egomaniacal sociopath for their energy needs. Most of the media doesn't talk about that because it doesn't fit their climate agenda.

The idea that the energy crisis in Europe isn't being covered is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[Michchamp]

what are you talking about? The European energy crisis is being widely covered. Today alone there are headlines about Germany spending billions to nationalize a major gas importer after already pumping cash into it and 2 others to bail them out. Also in the headlines is the UK bailouts of energy sector companies all because of the disruption of Russian gas being taken off the market.

Literally every story talks about the shortages and rising cost of gas and energy in general and the impact on consumers throughout Europe. It has all been widely covered for weeks if not months already. What's not covered very much is WHY they're so dependent on natural gas from Russia. That of course is because Europe has almost completely abandoned nuclear energy (and coal) because of all the climate propaganda. They're listening to and making policy based on the tantrums of whiny high school kids and now they're pretending it's Putin's fault they are all going to freeze this winter. They've completely f'd themselves by knowingly making themselves totally dependent on corrupt egomaniacal sociopath for their energy needs. Most of the media doesn't talk about that because it doesn't fit their climate agenda.

The idea that the energy crisis in Europe isn't being covered is complete and utter nonsense.

Uh... okay? Yeah, I agree with you. Maybe try reading a full sentence instead of arguing against sentence fragment here or there

 

[tinselwolverine]

There are anti-war protesters in Moscow.

No word whether the protesters have grown long hair, are wearing bell bottom jeans and sandals and are singing Dylan songs.

Maybe it?s because they?re not.

Or maybe they are and Western media/governments don?t want that reported, for some reason.

 

[Spartanmack]

Uh... okay? Yeah, I agree with you. Maybe try reading a full sentence instead of arguing against sentence fragment here or there

OK, you're hear telling everyone you have to read news from India and China to get the real story then here's what you said about the energy crisis in Europe:

Also I've read A LOT about how badly things are going for regular europeans due to the loss of Russia's cheap gas and oil (as part of their counter sanctions). That's not being reported amidst these constant declarations the Russians are about to collapse.

In that same post you also said...

I do not take any western claims that Russia is escalating it seriously...

and

And as far as nuclear threats go, Ukraine has been the ones shelling the nuclear plant in Zaporizhia, which is now under Russian control, which is incredibly reckless, but the media here never reports who's doing the shelling.

There really is a 1984-esque slant to all the propaganda.

I really don't think the issue is that I didn't do a thorough read of your bullshit. Seems more like you made up some shit to pretend that people who read western media are in the dark about everything including the second order effects of the conflict (i.e. the European energy crisis) because it's not being covered and you're you're here to correct that because you read Indian news sources and CCP propaganda. You got called out for your bullshit and as usual, rather than admit your error, you resort to an ad hominem attack of the person who called out your bullshit.

I'm curious why the Russians are calling up reserves, since they're still easily holding all the Ukrainian territory they want, and winter's almost here with the potential mass riots in Europe against heating and fuel costs..

Possibly the Russians plan to take another bite of Ukraine & hold more?

If you're really that curious, maybe you should consider the possibility that the Chinese Communist Party propaganda machine isn't really better than what others are reading.

 

[Michchamp]

OK, you're hear telling everyone you have to read news from India and China to get the real story then here's what you said about the energy crisis in Europe:



In that same post you also said...



and



I really don't think the issue is that I didn't do a thorough read of your bullshit. Seems more like you made up some shit to pretend that people who read western media are in the dark about everything including the second order effects of the conflict (i.e. the European energy crisis) because it's not being covered and you're you're here to correct that because you read Indian news sources and CCP propaganda. You got called out for your bullshit and as usual, rather than admit your error, you resort to an ad hominem attack of the person who called out your bullshit.



If you're really that curious, maybe you should consider the possibility that the Chinese Communist Party propaganda machine isn't really better than what others are reading.

Okay, well, I've been following this for a long time, had in-laws there, been there several times observing the changes in the country first-hand both before and after Euro-Maidan, so I really don't care whether you agree with me or not, or want to argue.

 

[Spartanmack]

Okay, well, I've been following this for a long time, had in-laws there, been there several times observing the changes in the country first-hand both before and after Euro-Maidan, so I really don't care whether you agree with me or not, or want to argue.

Congratulations but what does traveling to Ukraine have to do with you telling lies about the western media not covering the European energy crisis? Why are you trying to pretend that I?m disagreeing with your take on changes in the country when I haven?t said anything about that - just that you?re full of shit about the coverage of the energy crisis because you are. You?re propagandizing while complaining about propaganda. It?s kinda funny, actually.

Edit: and by the way, you follow a lot of stuff for a really long time and still manage to get so many things so wrong - time in on a topic doesn?t really bolster your credibility.