Upgrading the team 101

[batcave76]

1) Obtain a corner OF w/good OBP and glove (B Gardner) Most here agree, we don't want DY back. It will take someone like Turner IMO.
2) They have to pay Inge anyway, so platoon w/LHB. Maybe someone like FA- E Chavez.
3) #5 starter. They should be looking at a guy like FA- B Chen. Guy fits the bill.
4) Back-up catcher. This should be an easier move.
5) Take a flyer on someone like FAs- Grady or Nathan. Work the contract right, got nothing to lose.
6) 2nd base. The most important upgrade they face. No idea who they covet or how they get it done. But it's a position they have to improve significantly.
7) BP help. Every team can say as much.

 

[turok]

You missed finding a leadoff hitter, one that preferably plays a position of need, such as 2B.

Also...I would prefer a better than #5 LH SP, one that can be slotted at worst between Fister-Scherzer or #2-3...depending on the cost of improving @2B and/or in LF, although I tend to believe that Young will return, like him or not. Benchamitt should be toast, as he was a huge disappointment, esp. in the postseason, he made Inge (who definitely was a pleasant surprise in the postseason) look positively HOF!!!-ish.

Hopefully/likely? Perry and maybe Pauley, and less likely Schlereth will be gone, I dunno if David and/or Danny can improve, but Ryan certainly won't, since his eyesight is/has rapidly been failing, along with his skills as a RP. I wonder if Zumaya is finally over as a Tiger, or if he will be given yet another shot during ST, @ making their 25-man roster.

 

[Thumb]

You missed finding a leadoff hitter, one that preferably plays a position of need, such as 2B.

Also...I would prefer a better than #5 LH SP, one that can be slotted at worst between Fister-Scherzer or #2-3...depending on the cost of improving @2B and/or in LF, although I tend to believe that Young will return, like him or not. Benchamitt should be toast, as he was a huge disappointment, esp. in the postseason, he made Inge (who definitely was a pleasant surprise in the postseason) look positively HOF!!!-ish.

Hopefully/likely? Perry and maybe Pauley, and less likely Schlereth will be gone, I dunno if David and/or Danny can improve, but Ryan certainly won't, since his eyesight is/has rapidly been failing, along with his skills as a RP. I wonder if Zumaya is finally over as a Tiger, or if he will be given yet another shot during ST, @ making their 25-man roster.

Zumaya is going to be a non-roster invitee I would guess, but I would doubt he makes the 40 man roster out of ST unless he looks like the 2006 version.

They need to find a role for Pauley, Seattle had him long, middle, and even setting up, then he gets here and Leyland does not know what the fuck to do with him other than leave him sitting in the bullpen for weeks at a time then inserting him in bad situations and letting him look terrible, when he inherited quite a few bad situations iirc.

They probably wont dump Perry yet either, not until they are sure all the money they spent on him was wasted.

 

[tomdalton22]

1) Obtain a corner OF w/good OBP and glove (B Gardner) Most here agree, we don't want DY back. It will take someone like Turner IMO.
2) They have to pay Inge anyway, so platoon w/LHB. Maybe someone like FA- E Chavez.
3) #5 starter. They should be looking at a guy like FA- B Chen. Guy fits the bill.
4) Back-up catcher. This should be an easier move.
5) Take a flyer on someone like FAs- Grady or Nathan. Work the contract right, got nothing to lose.
6) 2nd base. The most important upgrade they face. No idea who they covet or how they get it done. But it's a position they have to improve significantly.
7) BP help. Every team can say as much.

Gardner isn't worth a prospect like Turner. I would be fine with keeping DY for another year. I would prefer they try and upgrade 2B and 3B. I would also like to see a #3 type pitcher brought in...not a #5. Chen had a good year but his career #s are more like a #5. Another setup man for the BP to give them the 7-8-9 inning. This seems like a luxury but I think a great BP is important.

 

[Rebbiv]

1) Obtain a corner OF w/good OBP and glove (B Gardner) Most here agree, we don't want DY back. It will take someone like Turner IMO.
2) They have to pay Inge anyway, so platoon w/LHB. Maybe someone like FA- E Chavez.
3) #5 starter. They should be looking at a guy like FA- B Chen. Guy fits the bill.
4) Back-up catcher. This should be an easier move.
5) Take a flyer on someone like FAs- Grady or Nathan. Work the contract right, got nothing to lose.
6) 2nd base. The most important upgrade they face. No idea who they covet or how they get it done. But it's a position they have to improve significantly.
7) BP help. Every team can say as much.

Gardner isn't worth a prospect like Turner. I would be fine with keeping DY for another year. I would prefer they try and upgrade 2B and 3B. I would also like to see a #3 type pitcher brought in...not a #5. Chen had a good year but his career #s are more like a #5. Another setup man for the BP to give them the 7-8-9 inning. This seems like a luxury but I think a great BP is important.

AL Starter Averages over last 3 years

80.57 RC/650 .747 OPS 1.36 WHIP 4.38 ERA

DET starters Away last 3 years

Verlander 62.29 RC/650 .647 OPS 1.16 WHIP 3.58 ERA
Fister 73.78 RC/650 .720 OPS 1.28 WHIP 4.08 ERA
Porcello 78.60 RC/650 .751 OPS 1.39 WHIP 4.49 ERA
Scherzer 82.10 RC/650 .761 OPS 1.36 WHIP 4.32 ERA

Penny 106.46 RC/650 .864 OPS 1.56 WHIP 5.70 ERA

Chen 78.72 RC/650 .736 OPS 1.32 WHIP 4.30 ERA

They aren't talking about Brad Penny type here. It is Bruce Chen. Not sure what your definitions of a #3 and #5 starter are. To me, average = #3, which Chen has been over the last 3 years.

Now, my concern with Chen is that he has pitched over 160 IP in a season just once in his career. And that was 2005. I would like more durability from a pitcher.

 

[thehippo73]

I will take a shot at filling these.

1. Grady Sizemore. He has a good glove and his body needs move to a corner spot. We have the depth to take this chance with Dirks and Raburn.

2. Wilson Betemit. Sure he didn't play well in the playoffs but he is good as anyone we are gonna platoon with Inge.

3. Mark Buerhle. I would rather have a 200 inning guy who has a great track record rather than Chen, who is not the most reliable. Although I do like Chen.

4. Kelly Shoppach. Good defensive catcher, terrible bat. But whoever fills this role will only catch once a week.

5. See #1

6. Maicer Izturis. He is a solid defender and decent with the bat. Make a trade involving DY to the Angels. It shouldn't take much more than DY.

7. George Sherrill. We need a another decent lefty out of the pen.

My other thought are making a run at Yoenis Cespedes. If we get him, trade A-Jax to Oakland in a package for Gio Gonzalez. That eliminates signing Buerhle.

 

[tomdalton22]

Gardner isn't worth a prospect like Turner. I would be fine with keeping DY for another year. I would prefer they try and upgrade 2B and 3B. I would also like to see a #3 type pitcher brought in...not a #5. Chen had a good year but his career #s are more like a #5. Another setup man for the BP to give them the 7-8-9 inning. This seems like a luxury but I think a great BP is important.

AL Starter Averages over last 3 years

80.57 RC/650 .747 OPS 1.36 WHIP 4.38 ERA

DET starters Away last 3 years

Verlander 62.29 RC/650 .647 OPS 1.16 WHIP 3.58 ERA
Fister 73.78 RC/650 .720 OPS 1.28 WHIP 4.08 ERA
Porcello 78.60 RC/650 .751 OPS 1.39 WHIP 4.49 ERA
Scherzer 82.10 RC/650 .761 OPS 1.36 WHIP 4.32 ERA

Penny 106.46 RC/650 .864 OPS 1.56 WHIP 5.70 ERA

Chen 78.72 RC/650 .736 OPS 1.32 WHIP 4.30 ERA

They aren't talking about Brad Penny type here. It is Bruce Chen. Not sure what your definitions of a #3 and #5 starter are. To me, average = #3, which Chen has been over the last 3 years.

Now, my concern with Chen is that he has pitched over 160 IP in a season just once in his career. And that was 2005. I would like more durability from a pitcher.

Is there any way to sort AL #5 starter stats? My guess is that there isn't much of a drop off from the league averages. My point...I want the Tigers to add a pitcher that is better than the league average.

 

[turok]

The FA Chen certainly fills the bill when it comes to a SP being called a "journeyman" --pitching for no less than 10 teams in his 13 seasons in the majors, only ~half where he pitched >100 innings. He may not have a lot of mileage on his arm, when compared to his number of years in MLB, but still..hmm..kinda wonder if the only issue with Chen would come up IF the Tigers can repeat as ALCD champs, or less likely WC clinchers, that being his degree of endurance, ability and effectiveness in the ensuing postseason, after pitching perhaps 150+ innings in the regular season.

The FA pickings are slim for LH SPs, when it comes to anyone not named CJ Wilson, who likely will be hotly bid for by at least the Red Sox and perhaps the Yankees, esp. in the Red Sox case, since Lackey apparently will miss all of next season having TJS, so Bahston may very well be where Wilson ends up @.

Perhaps the Tigers will not acquire anyone who will exactly blow us Tigers fans away this off-season, so if mild upgrades such as a Chen and also perhaps a Kelly Johnson type @2B, and a backup catcher, who may or may not come from outside the club, are going to be the only new pickups, along with retaining (ugh) Betemit and Young to platoon with Kringe and Dr. Shinebox/Mr. Mudhen on the leftside of the field, guess that is just what might happen.

 

[batcave76]

Alot of fans think Gardner isn't good euff to trade Turner for. I wonder what everyday OF would be good enuff to deal him for? 1 for 1 only. No packages or salary dump types.

 

[batcave76]

Gardner isn't worth a prospect like Turner. I would be fine with keeping DY for another year. I would prefer they try and upgrade 2B and 3B. I would also like to see a #3 type pitcher brought in...not a #5. Chen had a good year but his career #s are more like a #5. Another setup man for the BP to give them the 7-8-9 inning. This seems like a luxury but I think a great BP is important.

The team is set w/4 starters. They still need a 5th. Whether a guy like Chen sets up in the rotation as a 4 or 5....?


AL Starter Averages over last 3 years

80.57 RC/650 .747 OPS 1.36 WHIP 4.38 ERA

DET starters Away last 3 years

Verlander 62.29 RC/650 .647 OPS 1.16 WHIP 3.58 ERA
Fister 73.78 RC/650 .720 OPS 1.28 WHIP 4.08 ERA
Porcello 78.60 RC/650 .751 OPS 1.39 WHIP 4.49 ERA
Scherzer 82.10 RC/650 .761 OPS 1.36 WHIP 4.32 ERA

Penny 106.46 RC/650 .864 OPS 1.56 WHIP 5.70 ERA

Chen 78.72 RC/650 .736 OPS 1.32 WHIP 4.30 ERA

They aren't talking about Brad Penny type here. It is Bruce Chen. Not sure what your definitions of a #3 and #5 starter are. To me, average = #3, which Chen has been over the last 3 years.

Now, my concern with Chen is that he has pitched over 160 IP in a season just once in his career. And that was 2005. I would like more durability from a pitcher.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I dont want a 5th starter. Someone that puts up a 4.5 ERA and we all say "he's okay for a fifth starter". Why not go get a third. No law that says you have to have a 5th type in a 5 man rotation.

 

[batcave76]

Mitch[/color]]I dont want a 5th starter. Someone that puts up a 4.5 ERA and we all say "he's okay for a fifth starter". Why not go get a third. No law that says you have to have a 5th type in a 5 man rotation.

I guess it boils down to $ and yrs. It would be interesting to see how Det rates as far as the salaries per yr of their 4 starters.

 

[jimrice]

I thought Turner was going to be the fifth starter? I expect the team to go into the year with that assumption and possibly change course at the trade deadline.

I'd like to see a reliable bullpen arm or two.

Of course, the crown jewel would be a second baseman that can lead off.

I don't expect a much different look to third base. Inge+left handed platoon help

 

[Mitchrapp]

Turner is only 20, right? I wouldn't mind him sitting another year or two.

 

[batcave76]

I thought Turner was going to be the fifth starter? I expect the team to go into the year with that assumption and possibly change course at the trade deadline.

I'd like to see a reliable bullpen arm or two.

Of course, the crown jewel would be a second baseman that can lead off.

I don't expect a much different look to third base. Inge+left handed platoon help

I see Turner as 1 of few options that will bring a nice bounty.

 

[Thumb]

Mitch[/color]]Turner is only 20, right? I wouldn't mind him sitting another year or two.

Yea, Turner is not ready for MLB level in 2012.

He has not even has a full season of AAA yet, let him mature naturally and not spoil him by rushing him up early.

I have more faith in Coke as a 5th starter right now than I do in Turner, we need to get a SP this offseason, Chen or Buerhle would be nice.

 

[jimrice]

[quote="Mitch":v7x2a7t3]Turner is only 20, right? I wouldn't mind him sitting another year or two.

Yea, Turner is not ready for MLB level in 2012.

He has not even has a full season of AAA yet, let him mature naturally and not spoil him by rushing him up early.

I have more faith in Coke as a 5th starter right now than I do in Turner, we need to get a SP this offseason, Chen or Buerhle would be nice.[/quote:v7x2a7t3]

Turner might not be ready. As mentioned previously, Chen is not a full year pitcher most times. He'd be OK. I suspect Buerhle is looking for his last big deal and wants multiple years. Unless the Tigers are thinking about giving up on Porcello, I don't see him as a fit in Detroit. Clearly, Turner is coming in 2011 or 12.

 

[batcave76]

[quote="Mitch":0k9yv7pm]Turner is only 20, right? I wouldn't mind him sitting another year or two.

Yea, Turner is not ready for MLB level in 2012.

He has not even has a full season of AAA yet, let him mature naturally and not spoil him by rushing him up early.

I have more faith in Coke as a 5th starter right now than I do in Turner, we need to get a SP this offseason, Chen or Buerhle would be nice.[/quote:0k9yv7pm] Chen or Buehrle is like deciding on whether to go to Hawaii or Toledo for Xmas vacation.

 

[spockmaster]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/tigers-notes-carroll-young-infielders.html


not unexpected, but DD confirmed he's going to tender young a contract. fuck.

 

[jimrice]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/tigers-notes-carroll-young-infielders.html


not unexpected, but DD confirmed he's going to tender young a contract. fuck.

The bright side is that they don't seem to be interested in a long term extension, just the arbitration year.