Vegas gunman kills 58, wounds 515 during outdoor music concert

[tinselwolverine]

Son of a bitch.

Long time Los Angeles city council vet Richard Alarcon knew the shooter since they were both eight years old.

They graduated together in 1971 from Polytechnic high school in the sun valley neighborhood of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley.

Alarcon said he never thought The shooter would be the kind of person who would ever do this.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yes, there are, and someone has already posted proof in this thread.

I personally know more than one person with a permit for a fully automatic firearm.

no there aren't. that's not proof of "many, many loopholes" and it's also misleading. the truth is machines guns in Nevada are subject to federal laws and regulations, under which machine guns have been banned since the 1980s. machine guns legally owned prior to the ban have been grandfathered by he federal government. it is the case that Nevada hasn't placed additional restrictions but they haven't created any loopholes to make them legal. you are simply wrong about this.

 

[tomdalton22]

so it appears that he didn't have any automatic "machine guns" but a bunch of guns that were fitted with "bump stocks". I never even knew such a thing was out there. What a country we live in.

 

[Thumb]

no there aren't. that's not proof of "many, many loopholes" and it's also misleading. the truth is machines guns in Nevada are subject to federal laws and regulations, under which machine guns have been banned since the 1980s. machine guns legally owned prior to the ban have been grandfathered by he federal government. it is the case that Nevada hasn't placed additional restrictions but they haven't created any loopholes to make them legal. you are simply wrong about this.

Again, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I suggest you research it further. It is still possible and 100% legal to own a fully automatic firearm, and it has nothing to do with them being grandfathered.

 

[turok]

Pretty good article on how deeply the NRA's tentacles reach into federal and state government. The CEOs of many gun, ammo, and aftermarket parts manufacturers sit on its board.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-nra-vs-america-20130131

 

[Spartanmack]

Again, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I suggest you research it further. It is still possible and 100% legal to own a fully automatic firearm, and it has nothing to do with them being grandfathered.

I suggest you read this, since clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. Right there in the table summarizing Nevada gun laws "Possession and ownership of an SBR, SBS, machine gun (selective-fire weapon), or silencer, all NFA items, are subject to federal purview and regulation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Nevada

Here's a good summary of the National Firearms act enacted in 1934, modified in 1968 by the Gun Control Act and in 1986 by the Firearms Owners Protection Act.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/02/actual-federal-laws-regulating-machine-guns-u-s/

Under the NFA, it is illegal for any private civilian to own any fully automatic weapons manufactured after May 19, 1986.

Emphasis added. So it's clear, private ownership of automatic weapons has EVERYTHING to do with them being grandfathered - even in Nevada.

Here's another quote to clarify what you're obviously confused about.

Only certain types of FFL/SOTs may make them, and then only for purchase by qualified state and federal agencies.

I don't believe the shooter here was a qualified state or federal agency or agent for that matter.

Here's an idea - next time, do a little research before you suggest other people "research it further." You may not end up looking like such an ignorant jackass. Also, maybe clean up the language a bit. It only makes you sound that much more ignorant.

 

[turok]

If I decided to go out with a big bang, instead of 100% in anonomity, K Street or NRA HQ would definitely be in my crosshairs. I would never consider mass-killing any fellow plebes. Better still is if I could successfully recruit others to participate. Don't even need to be a crack shot anymore, with all of the latest tech accessories and gizmos available to aid and assist. Just need plenty of cash and/or (stolen) credit.

Why care if its "legal" or not, when there is absolutely no intent to survive?

Owning the base assault rifles are key, and perfectly legal. But even if an ex-felon, commiting more felonies and willingly dying in the process, hardly matters.

Assault rifles and semi-autos/auto-bumps are mass people-killing weapons. Not for so-called "self defense". There are few if any examples of "heroic" killings of mass-murderers in public during a siege by private citizens. That is purely the stuff of Hollywood fantasy.

One of the acts who had performed just prior to that Vegas massacre stated that they had weapons in their trailer, but quickly realized how useless that they were vs a well-concealed killer located high above them. Not to mention the likelyhood that still arriving LEOs would mistake them for participating combatants. In fact one now former 2nd Amendment-supporting member has done a 180 vs gun control.

 

[Spartanmack]

If I decided to go out with a big bang, instead of 100% in anonomity, K Street or NRA HQ would definitely be in my crosshairs. I would never consider mass-killing any fellow plebes. Better still is if I could successfully recruit others to participate. Don't even need to be a crack shot anymore, with all of the latest tech accessories and gizmos available to aid and assist. Just need plenty of cash and/or (stolen) credit.

Why care if its "legal" or not, when there is absolutely no intent to survive?

Owning the base assault rifles are key, and perfectly legal. But even if an ex-felon, commiting more felonies and willingly dying in the process, hardly matters.

Assault rifles and semi-autos/auto-bumps are mass people-killing weapons. Not for so-called "self defense". There are few if any examples of "heroic" killings of mass-murderers in public during a siege by private citizens. That is purely the stuff of Hollywood fantasy.

One of the acts who had performed just prior to that Vegas massacre stated that they had weapons in their trailer, but quickly realized how useless that they were vs a well-concealed killer located high above them. Not to mention the likelyhood that still arriving LEOs would mistake them for participating combatants. In fact one now former 2nd Amendment-supporting member has done a 180 vs gun control.

that's a bizarre first paragraph - you should share this with the ATF and maybe they can get your name on a list to make sure you can't buy a firearm. As for the "good guy with a gun never stops mass shootings" that's only true if you ignore all the times it's happened. Here are a few examples, mostly from the last 10 years...

http://controversialtimes.com/issue...hootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/

 

[Michchamp]

If I decided to go out with a big bang, instead of 100% in anonomity, K Street or NRA HQ would definitely be in my crosshairs. I would never consider mass-killing any fellow plebes. Better still is if I could successfully recruit others to participate. Don't even need to be a crack shot anymore, with all of the latest tech accessories and gizmos available to aid and assist. Just need plenty of cash and/or (stolen) credit.

Why care if its "legal" or not, when there is absolutely no intent to survive?

Owning the base assault rifles are key, and perfectly legal. But even if an ex-felon, commiting more felonies and willingly dying in the process, hardly matters.

Assault rifles and semi-autos/auto-bumps are mass people-killing weapons. Not for so-called "self defense". There are few if any examples of "heroic" killings of mass-murderers in public during a siege by private citizens. That is purely the stuff of Hollywood fantasy.

One of the acts who had performed just prior to that Vegas massacre stated that they had weapons in their trailer, but quickly realized how useless that they were vs a well-concealed killer located high above them. Not to mention the likelyhood that still arriving LEOs would mistake them for participating combatants. In fact one now former 2nd Amendment-supporting member has done a 180 vs gun control.

the statement from the guitarist of the crappy country music band that was playing is pretty revealing. he basically realized during the shooting that all the self-defense "good guy with a gun" tropes used to push gun sales are complete bullshit. link.

it's sad that people like him, and a lot of our other fellow Americans, aren't able to come to their senses on this issue until they actually live through a mass shooting on their own.

also, I know we're not supposed to hope for this kinda thing, but I gotta say, if someone DID go shoot up the NRA HQ, it would be a just result. after all the horror, death, and families torn apart the NRA's pro-gun sales propaganda has sown, you'd almost have to be sick to feel bad for them if they were all shot. but I have to assume the security at and around the NRA HQ is second to none. I don't think anyone will ever get close.

 

[Michchamp]

the conservative Federalist magazine had a story about how everyone should wait at least 72 hours after a mass shooting before it's okay to "talk about gun control."

some smart ass on twitter applied this rule to an actual calendar of mass shootings in America over the passed year (defined as 5 or more people shot in a single incident), and found that according to the 72 hour rule, there are only EIGHT (8) days a year where it's okay to talk about gun control in America. EIGHT. on average, we have mass shootings almost every other day. on one hand, that's surprising, on the other hand, more shootings IS THE ONLY LOGICAL RESULT WHEN EVERY OTHER FUCKING, SELF-ABSORBED, EMOTIONAL IDIOT YOU KNOW OWNS A GUN.

 

[turok]

the statement from the guitarist of the crappy country music band that was playing is pretty revealing. he basically realized during the shooting that all the self-defense "good guy with a gun" tropes used to push gun sales are complete bullshit. link.

it's sad that people like him, and a lot of our other fellow Americans, aren't able to come to their senses on this issue until they actually live through a mass shooting on their own.

also, I know we're not supposed to hope for this kinda thing, but I gotta say, if someone DID go shoot up the NRA HQ, it would be a just result. after all the horror, death, and families torn apart the NRA's pro-gun sales propaganda has sown, you'd almost have to be sick to feel bad for them if they were all shot. but I have to assume the security at and around the NRA HQ is second to none. I don't think anyone will ever get close.

Shooting up NRA HQ was meant as snark, and hypothetical, as it might instead turn them into RW martyrs for the cause. Prohibition failed, the war on terrorism/drugs fails, all b/c of $$$ and corruption. Gun control would create a huge black market for ammo, since few would willingly give up their personal arsenals/stashes of assault weapons.

 

[turok]

the conservative Federalist magazine had a story about how everyone should wait at least 72 hours after a mass shooting before it's okay to "talk about gun control."

some smart ass on twitter applied this rule to an actual calendar of mass shootings in America over the passed year (defined as 5 or more people shot in a single incident), and found that according to the 72 hour rule, there are only EIGHT (8) days a year where it's okay to talk about gun control in America. EIGHT. on average, we have mass shootings almost every other day. on one hand, that's surprising, on the other hand, more shootings IS THE ONLY LOGICAL RESULT WHEN EVERY OTHER FUCKING, SELF-ABSORBED, EMOTIONAL IDIOT YOU KNOW OWNS A GUN.

Didn't bookmark it, but I read yesterday that there have been 1.5x as many mass shootings here in Murka so far, as have passed days in this year.

 

[turok]

Perhaps the gun lobby's wettest of wet dreams will come to pass in the near future, when every man, woman, and child will become sufficiently paranoid enough to turn their abodes into heavily fortified fortresses, and will be loathe to venture out in public, sans full body armor, combat boots, helmet, small/large arms+ammo-belts and clips.

 

[Spartanmack]

the conservative Federalist magazine had a story about how everyone should wait at least 72 hours after a mass shooting before it's okay to "talk about gun control."

some smart ass on twitter applied this rule to an actual calendar of mass shootings in America over the passed year (defined as 5 or more people shot in a single incident), and found that according to the 72 hour rule, there are only EIGHT (8) days a year where it's okay to talk about gun control in America. EIGHT. on average, we have mass shootings almost every other day. on one hand, that's surprising, on the other hand, more shootings IS THE ONLY LOGICAL RESULT WHEN EVERY OTHER FUCKING, SELF-ABSORBED, EMOTIONAL IDIOT YOU KNOW OWNS A GUN.

that's if you count all the multiple shooter, multiple victims incidents including gang war shootouts. Even uber liberal Mother Jones says there were 7 mass shootings in the US so far in 2017. Too many, but even if you use the 72 hour rule, there are plenty of days to talk about the issue.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...s-vegas-mass-shooting-273rd-year-or-seventh-/

 

[Michchamp]

Mother Jones could be considered "uber liberal" in the past, but not now, under the current awful editor and staff she has assembled.

the real Mother Jones is rolling over in her grave.

 

[Spartanmack]

Again, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I suggest you research it further. It is still possible and 100% legal to own a fully automatic firearm, and it has nothing to do with them being grandfathered.

nothing but crickets since my response to this. are you still researching further or just pretending you never said this?

 

[Thumb]

nothing but crickets since my response to this. are you still researching further or just pretending you never said this?

I read it last night, and decided not to reply because it's useless to argue with you. If you like, go ahead and carve a notch or whatever little system you use to tally your internet arguments, I'm not going to bother, other than to say it's really funny how you say it's one way, though I know for a fact (personally) that it is not. Toodles

 

[Thumb]

nothing but crickets since my response to this. are you still researching further or just pretending you never said this?

I will however commend you for finally making a post you didn;t feel the need to edit 498027812653429817 times.

keep it up 'lil sparty

 

[Spartanmack]

Again, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I suggest you research it further. It is still possible and 100% legal to own a fully automatic firearm, and it has nothing to do with them being grandfathered.

I read it last night, and decided not to reply because it's useless to argue with you. If you like, go ahead and carve a notch or whatever little system you use to tally your internet arguments, I'm not going to bother, other than to say it's really funny how you say it's one way, though I know for a fact (personally) that it is not. Toodles

This is cute. When presented with the INDISPUTABLE facts, you still claim to know for a fact that it's the other way but can find NO evidence to support it other than you know someone who owns a machine gun which if you read the law you'd know isn't necessarily illegal in all cases. But if that gun was manufactured post May 19, 1986 and that gun isn't owned by an approved state or federal agency that he or she is a member of, it most certainly is illegal, even in Nevada. If you could come up with anything in law that proves me wrong (as I've done to disprove your misunderstanding of gun laws), I'll happily concede. But you're more of a "I'm taking my ball and I'm going home" kind of guy when it comes to fact based arguments. This isn't about keeping score, it's about having the facts to back up your argument and admitting when you're wrong. Funny that you're the guy who is always throwing around the "little man behind a keyboard" accusations. Well, take your ball and run home little man. I'll continue to live in the factual world. Toodles.

 

[Spartanmack]

I will however commend you for finally making a post you didn;t feel the need to edit 498027812653429817 times.

keep it up 'lil sparty

there it is again - the good 'ol editing posts deflection. It's totally irrelevant but maybe it will make people forget that you've been proved to be utterly ignorant of the topic and completely wrong.