We officially don't torture anymore. Again.

[Mitchrapp]

*you're

I meant to write you..like you dum.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Is it similar to lemon wedges and dill?

Oh.

I thought it was intentional, referring to the sole of a shoe that's being worn by someone who is stomping the crud out of a prisoner - good for the sole.

Especially Islamic prisoner, because I think Islamics consider showing the sole of the shoe to somebody as being monumentally offensive.

So it would be doubly insulting to torture someone through stomping on their heads and faces.

 

[Thumb]

I meant to write you..like you dum.

 

[zyxt9]

Does this mean politicians will no longer be allowed to voice their opinions? Their speeches, commercials, soap boxing, grandstanding, etc. Has to fall under international torture statutes.

 

[Spartanmack]

No, it's silly. So because we allow people the option to legally have an abortion, we should also torture people? That doesn't make sense.

You really are an idiot.

 

[byco42]

I don't believe that Michchamp quite understood my point. I don't think it's actually ever occurred to him that babies in the womb are legally tortured when they experience first hand the horrifying effects of death by abortion, and I say that with no malice. There are elected officials in our own government walking around with the same disconnect. Ironically, they claim that the choice is "agonizing" for the woman pregnant.

 

[Thumb]

I don't believe that Michchamp quite understood my point. I don't think it's actually ever occurred to him that babies in the womb are legally tortured when they experience first hand the horrifying effects of death by abortion, and I say that with no malice. There are elected officials in our own government walking around with the same disconnect. Ironically, they claim that the choice is "agonizing" for the woman pregnant.

And none of that has anything to do with the topic. Apples and Oranges.

But just because you keep bringing it up, I'm not sure torture applies in the case of abortion, since at that point in development, they don't even have a conscience, or a functioning nervous system.

On the other hand, many babies born in the western world are circumcised within days of birth, many as part of some religious promise made 4000 years ago. Let me know when you start to complain about that okay?

 

[tinselwolverine]

I'm still complaining.

That shit hurt.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't believe that Michchamp quite understood my point. I don't think it's actually ever occurred to him that babies in the womb are legally tortured when they experience first hand the horrifying effects of death by abortion, and I say that with no malice. There are elected officials in our own government walking around with the same disconnect. Ironically, they claim that the choice is "agonizing" for the woman pregnant.

No, I understand what you're trying to say, it's just that in my opinion, your "point" is completely contrived... the two things have nothing in common and bear no relation to eachother.

 

[zyxt9]

I'm still complaining.

That shit hurt.

lol

at least for the bris ceremony the baby has the chance to get drunk for the first time...so he's got that going for him...

 

[Spartanmack]

This is what I started to explain to him...

I don't believe that Michchamp quite understood my point. I don't think it's actually ever occurred to him that babies in the womb are legally tortured when they experience first hand the horrifying effects of death by abortion, and I say that with no malice. There are elected officials in our own government walking around with the same disconnect. Ironically, they claim that the choice is "agonizing" for the woman pregnant.

But then I realized he still wouldn't get it and say something like this...

No, I understand what you're trying to say, it's just that in my opinion, your "point" is completely contrived... the two things have nothing in common and bear no relation to eachother.

So I just typed this...

You really are an idiot.

It's neither contrived or unrelated. You're complaining that torture is cruel, inhuman and barbaric. Abortion is cruel, inhuman and barbaric but unlike torture, abortion is perpetrated against the most innocent and defenseless. You vilify people for the former and you defend the latter with casual indifference to the suffering of the defenseless.

 

[byco42]

No, I understand what you're trying to say, it's just that in my opinion, your "point" is completely contrived... the two things have nothing in common and bear no relation to eachother.

They have a lot in common. Both involve doing severe harm on a human person, and only one of them always dies. And, in the end, nothing good results. Oh, and both are "justified" and "for the greater good" and while one "deserves" it and the other doesn't, both are treated as sub-human in the process. Torture, abortion -- both are functions to the same ultimate indifference to the divine nature of people.

 

[Michchamp]

They have a lot in common. Both involve doing severe harm on a human person, and only one of them always dies. And, in the end, nothing good results. Oh, and both are "justified" and "for the greater good" and while one "deserves" it and the other doesn't, both are treated as sub-human in the process. Torture, abortion -- both are functions to the same ultimate indifference to the divine nature of people.

I think it's maybe the nature of human life, when one becomes a person, feeling, and abortion is a discussion for an unrelated thread.

of course, here no one who's pro-choice is advocating people have abortions, merely maintaining they should have that right to decide for themselves, and no one else should judge them for it, because they haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

on the other hand, you have people advocating that other people be tortured, people who may in fact be innocent of any crime (I'm sure you're well aware of the issues they've faced detaining innocent people at Gitmo, or who get swept up in Afghanistan and sent to Bagram, or "rendered" to third party's for torture), and despite the lack of evidence the practice actually produces useful intelligence.

 

[byco42]

I think it's maybe the nature of human life, when one becomes a person, feeling, and abortion is a discussion for an unrelated thread.

The science you worship believes that it's at the moment of conception. And those human beings need someone to speak for them.

of course, here no one who's pro-choice is advocating people have abortions, merely maintaining they should have that right to decide for themselves, and no one else should judge them for it, because they haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

I do not judge the people involved in the abortion industry as evil, but the act in and of itself is. They are not the enemy; they are merely pawns of it.

on the other hand, you have people advocating that other people be tortured, people who may in fact be innocent of any crime (I'm sure you're well aware of the issues they've faced detaining innocent people at Gitmo, or who get swept up in Afghanistan and sent to Bagram, or "rendered" to third party's for torture), and despite the lack of evidence the practice actually produces useful intelligence.

Innocent ... that's the one adjective you can ascribe to the unborn.

 

[Michchamp]

Well, you've convinced me. Taking one situation completely out-of-context, and ignoring the arguments for and against each one, I can now see no good reason why we shouldn't torture people, since we permit abortion.

you win this round, sharp guy.

 

[byco42]

Well, you've convinced me. Taking one situation completely out-of-context, and ignoring the arguments for and against each one, I can now see no good reason why we shouldn't torture people, since we permit abortion.

you win this round, sharp guy.

I oppose torture and abortion. There is no sound argument for either practice. Inhumane treatment is inhumane treatment.

 

[Michchamp]

I oppose torture and abortion. There is no sound argument for either practice. Inhumane treatment is inhumane treatment.

For the record, I oppose both as well.

Isn't it ironic though... here I am, Mr. Big Government Liberal Who Everybody Hates, saying the government should stay out of people's private business, and it's ability to do some action (here, torture people it feels should be tortured, without convicting them - or even charging them! - with any crime, or even showing probable cause to justify why they needed to be tortured after the fact!!!!) should be restricted.

 

[byco42]

For the record, I oppose both as well.

Isn't it ironic though... here I am, Mr. Big Government Liberal Who Everybody Hates, saying the government should stay out of people's private business, and it's ability to do some action (here, torture people it feels should be tortured, without convicting them - or even charging them! - with any crime, or even showing probable cause to justify why they needed to be tortured after the fact!!!!) should be restricted.

I'm going to PM you a story later. I am not opposed to "big" government. I am a proponent of limited government. This government is unlimited.

 

[Sbee]

The science you worship believes that it's at the moment of conception. And those human beings need someone to speak for them.

I do not judge the people involved in the abortion industry as evil, but the act in and of itself is. They are not the enemy; they are merely pawns of it.



Innocent ... that's the one adjective you can ascribe to the unborn.

the concept of personhood is widely debated in science and religion. this is the crux of the abortion debate and it's not settled. Some also think that personhood begins much earlier than conception, that birth control is evil as well because it prevents human beings from coming into existence.

the moment of personhood and having a soul is entirely subjective.

 

[Spartanmack]

the concept of personhood is widely debated in science and religion. this is the crux of the abortion debate and it's not settled. Some also think that personhood begins much earlier than conception, that birth control is evil as well because it prevents human beings from coming into existence.

the moment of personhood and having a soul is entirely subjective.

Picking and choosing science for a convenient defense of abortion is subjective. When a fertilized egg becomes uniquely human is not subject to debate. At conception, it has it's own unique human DNA and by the time a woman knows she is pregnant the baby has a measurable heartbeat. Not to mention, many abortions are performed well beyond the point where the baby has a developed central nervous system and can absolutely feel pain. Arguments from viability outside the womb, all the way up to Peter Singer's insane "philosophy" is just arbitrary nonsense that pro abortionists masquerade as science to justify this barbaric practice.