weird news: God spares atheist and her family from tornado

[KAWDUP]

Well I'm not really talking about a specific plan because I don't believe one or that even god exists. I'm just trying to understand/interpret what the people who do are talking about.

Kinda goes back to the Wolf Blitzer thing, if you thank god because you were spared, do you curse god for those that were not? Or was that part of the plan?

Why does it have to be either/or? Either he thanks God or he must curse God?

It can be restated in the following way: Either I thank my lucky stars, or I curse my lucky stars. In terms of meaning, they are similar. You feel thankful. What if I'm the type of person, who feels thankful when good things happen to me, or even when bad things don't happen to me? I can feel thankful, and say thanks to God directly, or thank the talented architects who built my house. For a believer, a case can be made for all of it coming from God, so yeah He certainly could be thanked in most situations. If you want to thank just the architects, that is cool too. I just don't see it as black or white.

A believer does not have to do either, and can still be a believer. It goes both ways, of course - I've heard many an atheist say "THANK GOD!!" in an excited utterance. Does that mean they can't possibly be an atheist?

If one believes in Free Will (not that anyone does or doesn't), it is difficult to rationalize that with absolute predetermination (I sort of equate that to what you meant by "part of the plan"). Sorry if I got that meaning wrong.

You can have a plan for your children and still watch it go terribly awry. Does that mean you didn't have a plan? or that your children didn't get to choose their own path?

Anyway, sorry for the long post - that is how I look at it. Wolf Blitzer didn't make a PC statement. Horrors. Hopefully he learned his PC lesson for the day. Last statement is not an attempt to be snarky - hope you don't take it that way.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Anyway, sorry for the long post - that is how I look at it. Wolf Blitzer didn't make a PC statement. Horrors. Hopefully he learned his PC lesson for the day. Last statement is not an attempt to be snarky - hope you don't take it that way.

I don't think it really is a non-PC statement - very few people are offended by passing references to God - the athiest in the clip indicated that people thanking God doesn't offend her; she appeared amused by the event, which amused Wolf Blitzer, which makes the clip amusing to watch, and a little ironic.

Except for the clip being amusing and ironic, it is actually a non-event.

 

[Michchamp]

just saw this: Pope says atheists are alright. so back off...

Red would be interested to know that Glenn Beck also thinks that interview in Oklahoma was a setup intended to disparage christians.

 

[tinselwolverine]

just saw this: Pope says atheists are alright. so back off...

Red would be interested to know that Glenn Beck also thinks that interview in Oklahoma was a setup intended to disparage christians.

Yeah, I saw that Beck clip (just saw it; didn't watch it) on that left wing pinko Fox News obsessed "webrag" that you linked to for the Blitzer/athiest clip...

 

[redandguilty]

just saw this: Pope says atheists are alright. so back off...

Red would be interested to know that Glenn Beck also thinks that interview in Oklahoma was a setup intended to disparage christians.

Did you point out to Glen it was faked on a green screen?

 

[zyxt9]

Well at some point in history, most all wars were waged in the name of a God or a given theocratic belief system. More people have died in the name of God than for any other reason over the course of time ... so it begs the question of what sort of Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent being you're talking about.

To some, a wrathful and angry God is simply smiting the Evil doers ...and this view is maintained by all sides, relative to who the Other is.

Civil War comes to mind as a war not fought over Religion, and that war killed more US soldiers and civilians than all other US wars combined.

How about the French and Indian War? Revolutionary War? War of 1812? Nope
Spanish/American War? Mexican War? Nope
Was World War I about religion? WWII? Korea? Vietnam? Nope.
How about the US invasions of Grenada, Panama, Barbary Coast??? Nope, not even those.
What about Gulf War I? No, that was about oil.

Looking outside the US, pretty much every Asian War has been due to something other than religion, has it not? Looking back through history, it sure seems the conquests of Alexander the Great were more about territory expansion than religious conquest. I think the same is true of the Roman Empire.

While I get that historically there have been many wars over religion, I disagree that a majority of wars have religious conquest as the primary cause. A shared religion might have been a reason one group was able to convince another to join in a specific fight, but that the bonds that formed alliances more than the cause of the war.

 

[KAWDUP]

just saw this: Pope says atheists are alright. so back off...

Red would be interested to know that Glenn Beck also thinks that interview in Oklahoma was a setup intended to disparage christians.

A small excerpt:
Francis notes that the apostles were ?closed off by the idea of possessing the truth,? an arrogant certainty that no one group currently has a monopoly on. Where we find each other is in practicing tolerance for our differences, and in finding the commonality of our values. ?Doing good,? Francis says, ?is not a matter of faith.?

It?s not that faith, for the faithful, doesn?t matter. It?s that belonging to a church isn?t what saves us. It?s belonging to each other . . .

This is a tenet of my faith. I have built my world view more from this than anything else. Does it mean that I don't believe in Catholicism? Of course not. Anyway - I thought the Pope's statements were bold and fresh.

 

[tinselwolverine]

This is a tenet of my faith. I have built my world view more from this than anything else. Does it mean that I don't believe in Catholicism? Of course not. Anyway - I thought the Pope's statements were bold and fresh.

I knew there was a reason that you read Salon online.

 

[KAWDUP]

I knew there was a reason that you read Salon online.

Hey quit using my words against me. It is a dastardly librag and nothing else. :*)

I told you I try to get to most of the links people post. Difficult at work, but I get there when I can.

. . . and anway I didn't particularly like the article, just the quoted words from Pope Francis.

 

[TheVictors]

Civil War comes to mind as a war not fought over Religion, and that war killed more US soldiers and civilians than all other US wars combined.

How about the French and Indian War? Revolutionary War? War of 1812? Nope
Spanish/American War? Mexican War? Nope
Was World War I about religion? WWII? Korea? Vietnam? Nope.
How about the US invasions of Grenada, Panama, Barbary Coast??? Nope, not even those.
What about Gulf War I? No, that was about oil.

Looking outside the US, pretty much every Asian War has been due to something other than religion, has it not? Looking back through history, it sure seems the conquests of Alexander the Great were more about territory expansion than religious conquest. I think the same is true of the Roman Empire.

While I get that historically there have been many wars over religion, I disagree that a majority of wars have religious conquest as the primary cause. A shared religion might have been a reason one group was able to convince another to join in a specific fight, but that the bonds that formed alliances more than the cause of the war.

millions of "indigenous" people slaughtered in the name of Christianity, for not converting .... planes slammed into a building full of innocent people in the name of Allah ...

my point is that God -- in any form -- is not a violence-loving, war mongering Deity but many have justified violence in His name.

That's all.

And I'm sure there were plenty of Rebels praying to the same God as the Yankee counterparts before engaging in battle during the Civil War.

What's that saying, again .... "No atheists in a foxhole" ..?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Yeah, I saw that Beck clip (just saw it; didn't watch it) on that left wing pinko Fox News obsessed "webrag" that you linked to for the Blitzer/athiest clip...

Hey, I decided to go ahead and watch that Glen Beck clip; I've never seen his studio before, he has some really cool stuff, I especially liked that Route 66 road sign behind him.

You guys might not know this, but Route 66 t shirts are huge sellers down Hollywood Blvd; the route runs right through Hollywood and the route ends at Lincoln Blvd. and Olympic near Venice and Santa Monica Beaches, right where The U-Haul at the End of the Earth is located (the italics are to signify that it's a title to a WGA registered script that has of yet been produced into a film).

Because of that, and because a lot of people may live on or near the route (like Champ, who lives in the town where it originates) or just because people from across the country and around the world love the iconic song, or for whatever reason, those freakin' t shirts sell like hotcakes to the tourists down there.

I own a couple of them myself; one I cut the sleeves off and sometimes wear it to the boxing gym or on really, really hot days.

Beck isn't on TV anymore, is he? I thought he just had a radio show.

What is the studio about; is his show streamed on the internet?

Larry King started doing that when he got dumped by a cable news network.

 

[Michchamp]

I used to have a Route 66 t-shirt. I got it on a family vacation in California; oddly enough, I got it in northern CA though.

when I wore it at track practice, a bunch of older guys made fun of it. They had just read John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath for english class, a novel in which route 66 featured prominently. they said things like, "Why do you like Route 66 so much, are you an Okie?" or "Are you Ma Joad?"

I couldn't think of a clever response, other than, "What? No, I am not."

 

[Michchamp]

Ironically, the catholic church would not have approved of Steinbeck's socialist message, even though it is entirely consistent with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

One of the most prominent voices of the church was Fr Charles Coughlin, who broadcast his ardent anti-communist and anti-socialist radio show from Royal Oak, MI.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Ironically, the catholic church would not have approved of Steinbeck's socialist message, even though it is entirely consistent with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

One of the most prominent voices of the church was Fr Charles Coughlin, who broadcast his ardent anti-communist and anti-socialist radio show from Royal Oak, MI.

I read East of Eden and I read Of Mice and Men.

I had always sort of meant to get around to reading The Grapes of Wrath but I read so much fictional literature when I was younger that I grew tired of doing it.

I could watch the movie with Henry Fonda I guess.

I did read a synopsis online, it wasn't very uplifting.

But the synopsis didn't say anything about Route 66, in my recollection.

 

[zyxt9]

millions of "indigenous" people slaughtered in the name of Christianity, for not converting .... planes slammed into a building full of innocent people in the name of Allah ...

my point is that God -- in any form -- is not a violence-loving, war mongering Deity but many have justified violence in His name.

That's all.

And I'm sure there were plenty of Rebels praying to the same God as the Yankee counterparts before engaging in battle during the Civil War.

What's that saying, again .... "No atheists in a foxhole" ..?

Oh, I agree with all of this, without doubt. I just remember in college being "educated" about how all wars are due to religion and having a very heated debate. For some reason that prof only lasted one year...and I received a D for her class despite a B+ from all testing (for some reason I scored in high 90s on all factual testing and considerably lower on anything thesis related) going into the final thesis. Apparently that thesis only warranted about a 10% grade. I never knew my writing was so terrible! lol

 

[TheVictors]

ha!

 

[Thumb]

Civil War comes to mind as a war not fought over Religion, and that war killed more US soldiers and civilians than all other US wars combined.

How about the French and Indian War? Revolutionary War? War of 1812? Nope
Spanish/American War? Mexican War? Nope
Was World War I about religion? WWII? Korea? Vietnam? Nope.
How about the US invasions of Grenada, Panama, Barbary Coast??? Nope, not even those.
What about Gulf War I? No, that was about oil.

Looking outside the US, pretty much every Asian War has been due to something other than religion, has it not? Looking back through history, it sure seems the conquests of Alexander the Great were more about territory expansion than religious conquest. I think the same is true of the Roman Empire.

While I get that historically there have been many wars over religion, I disagree that a majority of wars have religious conquest as the primary cause. A shared religion might have been a reason one group was able to convince another to join in a specific fight, but that the bonds that formed alliances more than the cause of the war.

WWII was in large part a religious war. the most anti-semitic event in modern history, where Hitler and Himmler tried to wipe out an entire race/religion.

Also wars have been being fought since man stopped swinging from trees, and you only focused on the last 170 years or so of it.

 

[redandguilty]

WWII was in large part a religious war. the most anti-semitic event in modern history, where Hitler and Himmler tried to wipe out an entire race/religion.

Also wars have been being fought since man stopped swinging from trees, and you only focused on the last 170 years or so of it.

I think you have to want to blame war on religion to see it that way.

 

[byco42]

... and Wolf Blitzer sticks his foot in his mouth, but she handles the situation with aplomb.

linky.

It's the media of today. Play pat-a-cake with a child and ask the presumptious question. If Wolf is a journalist; I'm Superman.

When the media becomes part of the story rather than relating it, these things occur.

I could never imagine finding cause for appearing on any media outlet for any reason for any amount of money, because these bozos would not be interested in what I have to say, even if I had saved the life of President Obama.

 

[byco42]

Religious people always say god has a plan for everyone. When a child dies from Leukemia you always hear this, so I guess if you lived in Moore, Oklahoma his plan was either for you to get ripped to shreds by an EF5 tornado or thank him for sparing you and killing others.

He must sit up in heaven and light a cigar George Peppard style and say "I love it when a plan comes together".

Try and separate God from the people to try to define Him and His purpose. It's no discredit to God that this occurs.

How can God permit a tornado to level a small town, or an explosion to blow up an eight-year-old boy, or an abusive, alcoholic parent raise a child, or a volcano to kill 36,000 people, or any of the thousands of injustices that have occured since I began writing this post?

Is that really his plan? No. His "plan" has nothing to do with any of that.