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weird news: God spares atheist and her family from tornado

I think you have to want to blame war on religion to see it that way.


I'm not sure what you mean. Do you dispute what the "final solution" was supposed to be?

And I never said I blamed it on religion, that was Vic, I just pointed out that zyxt called WWII a "nope" when it came to religious reasons, and clearly there was religious motivation in that war.
 
I'm not sure what you mean. Do you dispute what the "final solution" was supposed to be?

And I never said I blamed it on religion, that was Vic, I just pointed out that zyxt called WWII a "nope" when it came to religious reasons, and clearly there was religious motivation in that war.

To point to that as a big driver of the war, I'd think you'd need the Axis powers and the Allies to be of two opposing religions. The targeting of the Jews was an excuse to give the people and it was driven by culture and ethnicity at least as much as it was by religion. Being non-religious or of some other faith but Jewish by heritage didn't get you a pass. That war was clearly about power and empire, not religion.
 
Wolf wasn't being "PC" and that term is so loosely anf gratuitously thrown about. -

Being "PC" means choosing words carefully so as to obfuscate the intended message, not every instance where some dillhole with a mic says something stupid.
 
Wolf wasn't being "PC" and that term is so loosely anf gratuitously thrown about. -

Being "PC" means choosing words carefully so as to obfuscate the intended message, not every instance where some dillhole with a mic says something stupid.

That's not how I use the term. I use PC to mean that certain phrases are used and certain phrases are avoided specifically because of political or cultural changes that have happened over time. There has to be some phase used where a typical person would have used a different phrase in the past, but today, using it would be a faux pas.
 
It's the media of today. Play pat-a-cake with a child and ask the presumptious question. If Wolf is a journalist; I'm Superman.

Was Wolf Blitzer the guy who kept putting his cigarette butts in your can of Coca Cola when you were covering the UAW strikes during the 1984 World Series as a videographer for CNN?
 
To point to that as a big driver of the war, I'd think you'd need the Axis powers and the Allies to be of two opposing religions. The targeting of the Jews was an excuse to give the people and it was driven by culture and ethnicity at least as much as it was by religion. Being non-religious or of some other faith but Jewish by heritage didn't get you a pass. That war was clearly about power and empire, not religion.

Yep, not to mention the ethnic cleansing of gays and lesbians and many other groups. Hitler was about racial superiority, not religious superiority, when it came to his ethnic cleansing of the "Jewish problem". Hitler had zero religious goals for invading other nations, those were purely nationalistic power and the fact Jews lived within the regions just meant he had to find more efficient methods of solving the "problem".

Furthermore, Jews who had converted to Christianity were treated no differently than Orthodox Jews, therefore evidence points to it being far more a racial issue than religious based.

Then there is the decision by Thumb to exclude the other Axis powers who fought in WWII in the attempt to maintain that WWII was religious based. This is often the part that is so easily overlooked by those who wish to perpetuate the "religion causes all wars" belief. Scholarly estimates indicate Japan actually killed more Chinese than Hitler killed Jews in their attempted purging of Chinese. Hitler also targeted Russian cities and attempted to kill as many Russians as possible to an even larger extent according to these studies.

It does not take long to see that Race has traditionally provided a much stronger motivation for war and killing than Religion. The murkiness between defining Muslims and Jews by Race vs Religion clouds that picture a great deal, so I feel it is best to remove that from the equation. I'm certain those who wish to view Religion as the cause for all wars will scream about how wrong that is; however, it can be argued that the hatred between Muslims and Jews has its origins in Race going back to the decision by Abraham to keep the maternal line for his ancestry. The Muslims claim Abraham's lineage is paternal based. This begins the blood feud, blood being a racial thing, not religious thing. To top off this argument is the fact the religion of Islam was begun with the Prophet Muhammed which was thousands of years after Abraham. Race, not religion, perpetuated the hatred for those millenium. Religion eventually became the excuse by which to perpetuate the hatred since, but the underlying reasons continue to be racially motivated. So while religion has undeniably played a role, the primary driver was and continues to be racial, but it currently is masked by the religious aspect. Again, it is very murky and I can understand the religious side of this debate, but I personally believe the historical racial reasons are the true reasons and motivating factor.

Outside of the Crusades, it is far more common that Race and Greed have been the primary drivers for war. Even the Europeans coming to the New World supposedly to convert the Indigenious People was more about attempts to claim land and thereby Natural Resources (primarily gold). The attempted conversion of the Indians and often slaughter of innocents in the name of religion was all secondary as the Europeans would not have cared one bit about the Native Americans if they hadn't been so focused on trying to acquire any and all riches contained in the New World. No government would have sent their people to the New World if they did not believe there would be financial benefits. Spain granted Columbus his voyages solely in the hopes he would find a shorter route to the Far East and thereby make for more profitable trade. Converting or killing Native Americans in the name of religion eventually was a convenient excuse to grab the land and the potential wealth.

Deaths from war:

Race and Greed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Religion

I realize that isn't what is taught in college though.
 
... I received a D for her class ...

that's a lot of excuses you have there...

are you sure you didn't receive a D because you look like this?

nb5mu.jpg
 
that's a lot of excuses you have there...

are you sure you didn't receive a D because you look like this?

nb5mu.jpg

No excuse, I know exactly why I got the grade and I didn't even go over her head to whine and try to change it. I chose not to back down and roll over in order to get a better grade, but that doesn't change the reason I got the grade was due to me having the ability to debate her effectively with a view contrary to hers and she took offense.
 
That's not how I use the term. I use PC to mean that certain phrases are used and certain phrases are avoided specifically because of political or cultural changes that have happened over time. There has to be some phase used where a typical person would have used a different phrase in the past, but today, using it would be a faux pas.

I agree with your definition but that speaks to the broad application of the term.

On the one hand, I'd say it's more than a faux pas to use certain derrogatory, insulting or threatening words in a modern, educated and sensible time. Then there's the example of someone being "PC" when they use certain words or expressions in front of one audience but more "blunt" terms in front of another. And finally, there's the way in which "PC" is used to mock things in public like same sex couples on a TV show or an interracial marriage as being .... "a bunch of PC bullshit."

Being "PC" is no different than what someone like my grandfather would have told me to be - I don't see how Wolf Blitzer was being "PC" in saying what he said ...he was just being a douche who didn't have his teleprompter from which to read.
 
I suppose I made a rather shallow post in light of the detailed responses. But there is a truth somewhere in the middle - the motivation may have been race or greed but many times religion has been invoked or otherwise intertwined with race to be historically the same.

I think the example of WWII and Hitler shows how you can have an ethnic group and religion summarized as one being Jewish. There are orthopractic (that's probably not a word) and religious traditions as well as cultural and ancestoral aspects and Hitler certainly isolated the people - and across borders into Poland and Italy and so forth - based on religion. Modern day Arian groups and the KKK justify violence and crime with religion ...in a pretty lame attempt to veil pure racism.

But you're right based on my first post about it ...and kicked my ass a bit. Heh
 
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... I received a D for her class ...

that's a lot of excuses you have there...

are you sure you didn't receive a D because you look like this?

nb5mu.jpg


No excuse, I know exactly why I got the grade and I didn't even go over her head to whine and try to change it. I chose not to back down and roll over in order to get a better grade, but that doesn't change the reason I got the grade was due to me having the ability to debate her effectively with a view contrary to hers and she took offense.

Sheesh, you guys are funny...

And YOU, MichChamp...

You have GOTTA stop using my image on your internet posts...
 
That's not how I use the term. I use PC to mean that certain phrases are used and certain phrases are avoided specifically because of political or cultural changes that have happened over time. There has to be some phase used where a typical person would have used a different phrase in the past, but today, using it would be a faux pas.

the term "PC" became sort of a conservative dog whistle to rile up the base... people didn't like your racist comment? Complain that they are too "PC"?

Some un-American liberal college professor makes a point about how it's racist to call your team the Redskins? Mention the phrase "political correctness run amok" to wind up the base and watch 'em go!

I liked using the literal interpretation of the term. for example, during the Bush years saying the refusal to call torture TORTURE when we did it was an example of "being too PC" or "I know it's not PC to admit we tortured people..."

it resulted in a lot of confusion:

*in a redneck voice* "No no... PC don' mean what you're saying, it means what we're saying."
 
I suppose I made a rather shallow post in light of the detailed responses. But there is a truth somewhere in the middle - the motivation may have been race or greed but many times religion has been invoked or otherwise intertwined with race to be historically the same.

I think the example of WWII and Hitler shows how you can have an ethnic group and religion summarized as one being Jewish. There are orthopractic (that's probably not a word) and religious traditions as well as cultural and ancestoral aspects and Hitler certainly isolated the people - and across borders into Poland and Italy and so forth - based on religion. Modern day Arian groups and the KKK justify violence and crime with religion ...in a pretty lame attempt to veil pure racism.

But you're right based on my first post about it ...and kicked my ass a bit. Heh

It's all good, I understand the view and you are right about religion being used to veil pure racism, but I would re-emphasize the point of how it also is used to veil pure greed. Ironic how that happens when most religions preach about peace and loving your fellow human and not coveting things like money and power. I get how religion is used as a tool toward goals that would actually be qualified as "evil doings" by that very religion. People do very perverse things to gain power and wealth.
 
the term "PC" became sort of a conservative dog whistle to rile up the base... people didn't like your racist comment? Complain that they are too "PC"?

Some un-American liberal college professor makes a point about how it's racist to call your team the Redskins? Mention the phrase "political correctness run amok" to wind up the base and watch 'em go!

I liked using the literal interpretation of the term. for example, during the Bush years saying the refusal to call torture TORTURE when we did it was an example of "being too PC" or "I know it's not PC to admit we tortured people..."

it resulted in a lot of confusion:

*in a redneck voice* "No no... PC don' mean what you're saying, it means what we're saying."

How often do you talk to people that speak in a redneck voice?
 
Then there is the decision by Thumb to exclude the other Axis powers who fought in WWII in the attempt to maintain that WWII was religious based. This is often the part that is so easily overlooked by those who wish to perpetuate the "religion causes all wars" belief. Scholarly estimates indicate Japan actually killed more Chinese than Hitler killed Jews in their attempted purging of Chinese. Hitler also targeted Russian cities and attempted to kill as many Russians as possible to an even larger extent according to these studies.


Sorry but I never claimed it was "religious based". I just said religion was a large part. It doesn't have to work multiple ways either. Red said it needed to be the reason between the Axis and Allies for going to war, but I disagree, the reasons for two sides going to war don't always have to be the same.

And it also doesn't mean that Italy, Japan, or any other minor axis contributors had to have those motivations either, and hence the reason I excluded them.
 
Seems to me that God opposes war in principle, but will accommodate our thirst to wage it. Mark Twain captured this quite nicely in his short story "The War Prayer."
 
Seems to me that God opposes war in principle, but will accommodate our thirst to wage it. Mark Twain captured this quite nicely in his short story "The War Prayer."

Guess I need to read the Twain prayer. I don't get what you mean.
 
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