What if you had a pitcher that could run a 4.4 40?

[durtymrclean]

Would you make him a pinch runner on his off days in late and close situations to get some value out of his legs. Or would you play it safe to avoid injury to your pitcher, especially if he was an ace?

 

[Mitchrapp]

I wouldn't run him at all.

I do remember Jack Morris PR at times back in the day and he wasn't close to 4.4. Depends on the manager I guess..

 

[turok]

Tigers should have used the D-Train to PH on occasion, IMO. Especially on the road vs NL team. Might have gotten something instead of next to nothing out of his no-looksee 3-year, $29 million extension.

 

[tinselwolverine]

For me it would depend on his WAR, and a whole bunch of other sabermetric indexes that I have no idea what they are.

 

[turok]

A's once had a PR who never batted or played a field position: Herb Washington

 

[Mitchrapp]

A's once had a PR who never batted or played a field position: Herb Washington

105 games. You figure maybe give him a try, see if he could hit. Btw, he was not a particularly good at stealing bases..31 of 48.

 

[tomdalton22]

what if you had an aunt that had balls...she would be your uncle!

 

[byco42]

4.4, no. 4.39, I'd consider it. Baseball is a game of thousandths of inches.

 

[Mitchrapp]

4.4, no. 4.39, I'd consider it. Baseball is a game of thousandths of inches.

I crunched the numbers and though 4.39 is the number we all use, its technically 4.386 so it gets rounded up. Its all about the metric system.

 

[Rebbiv]

Would you make him a pinch runner on his off days in late and close situations to get some value out of his legs. Or would you play it safe to avoid injury to your pitcher, especially if he was an ace?

There is no value in doing this, plain and simple. First, speed doesn't always mean someone is a good/great base runner. Second, the amount of more runs he might generate (over the guy he pitch runs for) is maybe 1-2 runs every 10th time pinch running. And maybe 1-2 wins over the course of 100 times pinch running. Yet, if he pulls a hamstring or busts an ankle, the downside could be crippling.

Rarely do you see NL pitchers slide when running the bases. If they cannot make it standing up, they don't try.

So you play it SMART, and don't even use him as a pinch runner. Unless it is the last game of the World Series, you need the run and Ramon Santiago is the only other option.

 

[durtymrclean]

What if he was a reliever, doesnt even have to be a closer or shutdown guy. What if it was a guy like phil coke?

 

[Rebbiv]

What if he was a reliever, doesnt even have to be a closer or shutdown guy. What if it was a guy like phil coke?

That changes nothing. Again, if the game meant something, yes. Games in April, May, June = NO

 

[Thumb]

I agree with others that raw speed is not a tool all by itself.

Take Ajax, he's fast....but has poor baserunning instincts. Q. Berry was fast, and had great instincts, but that was all he had and that's why he's not in the majors.

So if it comes down to you have NOBODY else left, than sure, you might. But only as a last resort.

It's far more likely to use a pitcher as a PH then a PR. I believe in the last several years we have used Maroth and Porcello as PH'ers when Smokes didn't want to burn the final position player on his bench.

 

[tonyballs]

I wouldn't run him at all.

I do remember Jack Morris PR at times back in the day and he wasn't close to 4.4. Depends on the manager I guess..

I remember the Morris talk back in the day. he was supposedly faster than Gibby and Gibson could flat out fly.

 

[Rebbiv]

I remember the Morris talk back in the day. he was supposedly faster than Gibby and Gibson could flat out fly.

Of his 22 pinch running appearances, Morris scored 4 runs. 1 in 1979 and 3 in 1983.

1979 run = a loss, May 26th 5-7 to BAL in 16 innings. Morris pinch ran for Rusty Staub in the 9th and was the tying run. 2nd and 3rd and 1 out, Morris scored on an E1 ground ball.

1983 run1 = a loss, April 16th 1-3 to CHW. Morris pinch ran for Wockenfuss in the 7th and scored on a bases loaded Sac Fly giving the Tigers a 1-0 lead. DET gave up 3 in the bottom of the 8th.

1983 run2 = a win, July 10th 5-3 over OAK. DET trailed 3-0 in the 9th. Morris pinch ran for Wockenfuss. Lance Parris hit a Grand Slam to end the game.

1983 run3 = a win, July 17th 8-1 over SEA. Game was tied 1-1 going into the top of the 10th. Morris pinch ran after a leadoff walk to Glenn Wilson. He scored on a bases loaded, no out double by Brookens. DET scores 7 in the inning.


None of these runs were the difference in Morris' speed. Based on game conditions, the run would have scored regardless of who was on base.

So you run a guy 22 times, only to score 4 runs that probably would have scored anyways. Smart?

 

[Mitchrapp]

Of his 22 pinch running appearances, Morris scored 4 runs. 1 in 1979 and 3 in 1983.

1979 run = a loss, May 26th 5-7 to BAL in 16 innings. Morris pinch ran for Rusty Staub in the 9th and was the tying run. 2nd and 3rd and 1 out, Morris scored on an E1 ground ball.

1983 run1 = a loss, April 16th 1-3 to CHW. Morris pinch ran for Wockenfuss in the 7th and scored on a bases loaded Sac Fly giving the Tigers a 1-0 lead. DET gave up 3 in the bottom of the 8th.

1983 run2 = a win, July 10th 5-3 over OAK. DET trailed 3-0 in the 9th. Morris pinch ran for Wockenfuss. Lance Parris hit a Grand Slam to end the game.

1983 run3 = a win, July 17th 8-1 over SEA. Game was tied 1-1 going into the top of the 10th. Morris pinch ran after a leadoff walk to Glenn Wilson. He scored on a bases loaded, no out double by Brookens. DET scores 7 in the inning.


None of these runs were the difference in Morris' speed. Based on game conditions, the run would have scored regardless of who was on base.

So you run a guy 22 times, only to score 4 runs that probably would have scored anyways. Smart?

I don't think anyone was arguing smart or not but just point out that Morris PR a few times..

 

[Rebbiv]

I don't think anyone was arguing smart or not but just point out that Morris PR a few times..

I realize that Mitch. I was just giving Morris' stats as a pinch runner and the effect it had. I could very well have broken out Herb Washington's stats (105 games, 33 runs) and how useless even his 29 runs in 1974 were.