you be the scorekeeper

[hellifino]

and settle a gentleman's bet for me.


here's the situation, you got the bases loaded and a guy hits a blooper over shortstop, he makes it to 1st safely, but the guy on 3rd trying to score trips and breaks his ankle, the left fielder throws to the catcher who tags him out. here's the question... does the guy who hit it get credited with a base hit or do they give him a fielders choice?

 

[Mitchrapp]

Bases loaded the runner does not need to be tagged, a force-out. No base hit.

 

[byco42]

^^^^^^ Not so sure about that. There might be some interpretation regarding whether or not the batter/runner would have been safe anyway. The fielder's choice option assumes that the fielder actually had a choice to retire the batter/runner in the first place.

 

[tomdalton22]

Runner was out so it is a FC. It doesn't matter if he breaks his leg or if he is a fat ass and got thrown out at home. Also, there was no error on the play.

 

[byco42]

Actually, it is not an FC, having reviewed the rule. An FC only applies to a ground ball to an infielder. An exception would be in determining if a batter/runner reached an extra base AFTER he got a hit because a fielder chose to attempt to retire a runner at a different base. IE: Single to center, runner on second, and the CF elects to throw home to get the runner, and the batter/runner advances to second on the throw home.

 

[hellifino]

^^^^^^ Not so sure about that. There might be some interpretation regarding whether or not the batter/runner would have been safe anyway. The fielder's choice option assumes that the fielder actually had a choice to retire the batter/runner in the first place.

the batter was already safe at 1st from the bloop into the outfield, the runner at 3rd was called out when the outfielder noticed that he fell down and wasn't getting up, so he threw to the catcher who stepped on homeplate for the force out. this has to be scored a hit. imo

 

[byco42]

the batter was already safe at 1st from the bloop into the outfield, the runner at 3rd was called out when the outfielder noticed that he fell down and wasn't getting up, so he threw to the catcher who stepped on homeplate for the force out. this has to be scored a hit. imo

Yes. Agreed. See post #5

 

[tomdalton22]

the batter was already safe at 1st from the bloop into the outfield, the runner at 3rd was called out when the outfielder noticed that he fell down and wasn't getting up, so he threw to the catcher who stepped on homeplate for the force out. this has to be scored a hit. imo

i don't think it matters. If AJ gets to first before someone gets forced out at 2nd it isn't a hit....is it? I don't think it is a hit

 

[Thumb]

I believe in order for anything to be scored a hit, all men on base must advance safely, while the batter reaches base, without a fielding error.

I think Mitch is right, if would fall under FC, because it's a rare play, and there is no time limit on a fielders choice play, so even though going home got the runner after everyone else was safe, I think that's how they would score it.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I remember when Chet Lemon had a nice hitting streak going and he hit a slow grounder to SS or 3B. No way they were going to get him out but Enos Cabell was on 2nd at the time and ran into an out at 3rd base. Bad base-running.

Lemon was not awarded a hit and I don't see this any different, just because the batter hits a blooper over the shortstop. IMO, its still a fc and no hit.

 

[tomdalton22]

I don't think there is any way you could justify it being a hit.

 

[byco42]

The rule clearly limits an FC to a ground ball. It's a hit for the batter.

Rule 2.00: FIELDER’S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner.

EDIT: I was corrected that a hit was the correct call later in this thread.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The rule clearly limits an FC to a ground ball. It's a hit for the batter.

2.00: FIELDER?S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner.

Call it a force out then if you like but it doesn't seem like a base hit.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Have you ever seen a hit to the outfield but the base runner on first thought it was going to be caught but when it dropped in he was thrown out at 2nd. The batter was never awarded a hit, this is no different.

 

[Thumb]

The rule clearly limits an FC to a ground ball. It's a hit for the batter.

Rule 2.00: FIELDER?S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner.

The rules also say the Infield fly rule is limited to a popup on the infield, yet I have seen them call it when the ball makes it 15-20 feet onto the OF grass.

I would say it's scorekeepers discretion as to what manner of out they want to call it, but it can't be ruled a hit.

 

[tomdalton22]

The rule clearly limits an FC to a ground ball. It's a hit for the batter.

Rule 2.00: FIELDER’S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner.

(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error
(2) batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which such runner is advancing and is called out on appeal. The official scorer shall charge the batter with an at-bat but not a hit; (3) pitcher, the catcher or any infielder handles a batted ball and puts out a preceding runner who is attempting to advance one base or to return to his original base, or would have put out such runner with ordinary effort except for a fielding error. The official scorer shall charge the batter with an at-bat but not a hit; (4) fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner and, in the scorer's judgment, the batter-runner could have been put out at first base; or Rule 10.05(b) Comment: Rule 10.05(b) shall not apply if the fielder merely looks toward or feints toward another base before attempting to make the putout at first base.

Not a hit

 

[byco42]

Have you ever seen a hit to the outfield but the base runner on first thought it was going to be caught but when it dropped in he was thrown out at 2nd. The batter was never awarded a hit, this is no different.

Rule 10.05: The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error.

This addresses your correct observation. But in the OPs situation, it would not be an FC, because the OF could not have retired the batter-runner with ordinary effort. The rules call it only a "time at bat" for this circumstance and for when a preceding runner misses the next base he is eligible to occupy after the batter-runner initially gets a hit. It would be stricken upon successful appeal.

I love the rules of baseball and this has helped me learn something new.

 

[byco42]

(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error
(2) batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which such runner is advancing and is called out on appeal. The official scorer shall charge the batter with an at-bat but not a hit; (3) pitcher, the catcher or any infielder handles a batted ball and puts out a preceding runner who is attempting to advance one base or to return to his original base, or would have put out such runner with ordinary effort except for a fielding error. The official scorer shall charge the batter with an at-bat but not a hit; (4) fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner and, in the scorer's judgment, the batter-runner could have been put out at first base; or Rule 10.05(b) Comment: Rule 10.05(b) shall not apply if the fielder merely looks toward or feints toward another base before attempting to make the putout at first base.

Not a hit

And, in this situation posed by the OP, it's not a fielders choice, either.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'm not so sure tripping is not under ordinary effort. Okay, double negative. But you get my drift. Not like he was shot in the back trying to score, he just tripped.

 

[byco42]

I'm not so sure tripping is not under ordinary effort. Okay, double negative. But you get my drift. Not like he was shot in the back trying to score, he just tripped.

It's the fielder's ordinary effort I'm talking about.