Zimmerman arrested again

[Gulo Blue]

The media - some media - often portrays African Americans in these situations as angry, reactionary, ready to riot at a moment's notice.

This contributes to the us v. them narrative.

They of course, spend a lot less time examining WHY these people may be so angry...

Note: there were no riots after Zimmerman was acquitted.

Generally/historically that would be correct, but if I remember correctly, the media used younger pictures of Martin and edited Zimmerman's 911 call in a way that made him sound more focused on race than the actual call.

 

[Michchamp]

Generally/historically that would be correct, but if I remember correctly, the media used younger pictures of Martin and edited Zimmerman's 911 call in a way that made him sound more focused on race than the actual call.

they did fan the flames a bit. That sucks (it's not like I'm defending the media here), but it was completely unncessary, since the underlying conduct - Zimmerman stalking and killing and unarmed kid, the Sanford PD letting him go & then taking two weeks to even turn the case over to prosecutors - was shocking enough...

 

[Spartanmack]

Facts?

Here are the facts... Zimmerman, packing heat, stalked an unarmed black kid, despite being instructed not to by the 911 operator, then something happened, no one except Zimmerman & Martin (and Martin's dead) had any idea what that was, then Zimmerman shot and killed Martin.

No. Those are not the facts. The stalking is pure speculation. All the available evidence indicates that Zimmerman did not pursue Martin after he lost site of him. The 911 operator told him they don't need him to pursue Martin, to which Zimmerman said "OK". Then he gives vague directions on where the police can meet him because he didn't know the street name and address of his location. He got out of his car to get an address and street name so police could meet him at the site and was assaulted by a guy much bigger and stronger than him.

 

[Michchamp]

So did OJ's jury, Michael Jackson's jury, Robert Blake's jury.....because juries always get it right.

You are aware there is a difference between an 'acquittal' and being 'innocent'? A substantial difference that seems very lost on the ill informed.

as far as the actual trial went, the prosecution could be considered bumbling and incompetent. they initially over-charged Zimmerman (2nd degree murder), then at the last minute, tried to ram in a lesser manslaughter charge & a child abuse charge. The court allowed only the former, which itself was unfair to Zimmerman, and maybe could have given him grounds to appeal if the jury had convicted him of it.

I'm not sure Zimmerman intended to kill Martin from the get-go, though subsequent events have shown him to be a completely unhinged, violent person, but his conduct was certainly reckless enough to warrant a manslaughter charge & he should've been convicted of that (assuming it had been what they initially charged him with, and trial was conducted competently).

the prosecution's conduct here sure makes it seem like they sandbagged their own case. a lot of the witnesses they called supported Zimmerman's side of the story (!) and their best witness (the girl who was on the phone with Zimmerman) was poorly prepared to testify in court. When the prosecution wants to make sure someone is convicted... they don't make those same mistakes.

but hey... I guess at least they tried him in court. That was a small win for American society, and civilization in general.

 

[Michchamp]

No. Those are not the facts. The stalking is pure speculation. All the available evidence indicates that Zimmerman did not pursue Martin after he lost site of him. The 911 operator told him they don't need him to pursue Martin, to which Zimmerman said "OK". Then he gives vague directions on where the police can meet him because he didn't know the street name and address of his location. He got out of his car to get an address and street name so police could meet him at the site and was assaulted by a guy much bigger and stronger than him.

You call that an innocent guy looking for directions, I call it stalking.

I guess reasonable people can disagree on what a guy with a gun is doing following people around in his neighborhood, then shooting and killing them...

His side of the story seems reasonable. I know unarmed, lone teenagers often hide & then ambush guys, trying to kill them with their bare fists. Happens all the time in Sanford, FL apparently.

 

[tinselwolverine]

the prosecution's conduct here sure makes it seem like they sandbagged their own case. a lot of the witnesses they called supported Zimmerman's side of the story (!) and their best witness (the girl who was on the phone with Zimmerman) was poorly prepared to testify in court.

I think you mean the girl who was on the phone with/texting with Martin.

She was poorly prepared, and I have no idea why the prosecutor didn't bring a charge of criminal negligence against Zimmerman, for ignoring the recommendation of the 911 operator.

 

[Spartanmack]

You call that an innocent guy looking for directions, I call it stalking.

I guess reasonable people can disagree on what a guy with a gun is doing following people around in his neighborhood, then shooting and killing them...

His side of the story seems reasonable. I know unarmed, lone teenagers often hide & then ambush guys, trying to kill them with their bare fists. Happens all the time in Sanford, FL apparently.

Well, since you put it that way, it doesn't sound anywhere near as reasonable as a neighborhood watch captain who has a record of alerting police to suspicious activity but never once confronting any suspects, in a neighborhood with an escalating crime problem would go out on a "hunting trip" to kill black kids, but first call the cops before executing his first victim. At least he was smart enough to get the shit kicked out of himself first. Maybe all Floridians aren't inbred, stupid 2nd ammendment nut job republitards. At least the registered dems with concealed carry permits in the sunshine state are smart enough to first get beat nearly to death before murdering black babies - well, one of them is, anyway...

 

[Michchamp]

I think you mean the girl who was on the phone with/texting with Martin.

She was poorly prepared, and I have no idea why the prosecutor didn't bring a charge of criminal negligence against Zimmerman, for ignoring the recommendation of the 911 operator.

yeah, I meant Martin.

I don't know if Florida has a criminal negligence statute, what it entails, and whether disobeying a 911 operator would fall within its ambit.

 

[Michchamp]

Well, since you put it that way, it doesn't sound anywhere near as reasonable as a neighborhood watch captain who has a record of alerting police to suspicious activity but never once confronting any suspects, in a neighborhood with an escalating crime problem would go out on a "hunting trip" to kill black kids, but first call the cops before executing his first victim. At least he was smart enough to get the shit kicked out of himself first. Maybe all Floridians aren't inbred, stupid 2nd ammendment nut job republitards. At least the registered dems with concealed carry permits in the sunshine state are smart enough to first get beat nearly to death before murdering black babies - well, one of them is, anyway...

Whoa dude.

being on a jury and limiting one's deliberations to the facts in the record is one thing... but we're on the internet and there's this entire subsequent history of Zimmerman's conduct showing him to be an angry, wife-beating nutjob? I mean even viewing these incidents most favorably to Zimmerman, how likely is it that violent trouble just keeps finding him?

And THIS is the guy who's side you're ready to take? You believe his accounts?

Would you be okay with a guy like him "patrolling" your neighborhood?

Do you think the cops were right to just let him walk?

 

[Gulo Blue]

yeah, I meant Martin.

I don't know if Florida has a criminal negligence statute, what it entails, and whether disobeying a 911 operator would fall within its ambit.

Wasn't it worded ambiguously anyway? Like "you don't need to do that, sir." or something that wasn't an explicit command?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Whoa dude.

being on a jury and limiting one's deliberations to the facts in the record is one thing... but we're on the internet and there's this entire subsequent history of Zimmerman's conduct showing him to be an angry, wife-beating nutjob? I mean even viewing these incidents most favorably to Zimmerman, how likely is it that violent trouble just keeps finding him?

And THIS is the guy who's side you're ready to take? You believe his accounts?

Would you be okay with a guy like him "patrolling" your neighborhood?

Do you think the cops were right to just let him walk?

I think it's fair to consider the possibility that he became unzipped as a result of the attention this case got. You need to find evidence that he was unzipped beforehand. I vaguely remember there was evidence that he wasn't racist, but there might have been something odd in his past...can't remember what it was...other than the armed patrolling obviously. Neighborhood watch isn't supposed to be armed.

 

[Michchamp]

Wasn't it worded ambiguously anyway? Like "you don't need to do that, sir." or something that wasn't an explicit command?

I suppose.

But I don't think disobeying a 911 operator would ever be a crime. I believe filing false reports/abusing the 911 system is, but I don't think 911 operators are given some legal authority like the police are (where disobeying an official order can be a crime). that would be a state law, and you may be surprised to learn I am not familiar off-hand with the entire criminal codes of every state, let alone Illinois.

at best it would be evidence to undermine Zimmerman's self-defense claim. That is unless you're sympathetic to Zimmerman's side (since he's such a sympathetic human being...) and believe he was obeying the 911 operator, dutifully getting an address before walking back to his car, when out of nowhere, the huge, threatening teenager jumped on top of him and started wailing away, intending to kill him before going home to eat his Skittles and plan his next burglary/murder...

 

[Michchamp]

I think it's fair to consider the possibility that he became unzipped as a result of the attention this case got. You need to find evidence that he was unzipped beforehand. I vaguely remember there was evidence that he wasn't racist, but there might have been something odd in his past...can't remember what it was...other than the armed patrolling obviously. Neighborhood watch isn't supposed to be armed.

his wannabe cop history, officious armed-neighborhood-watch conduct was not unzipped enough for you?

 

[Gulo Blue]

wikipedia scan bullets

-at the time of the shooting, he was 1 credit shy (and working on that one credit) of getting an associate's degree in criminal justice.

-a year before the shooting, he participated in a protest/forum about a white Sanford police shooting of a black homeless man, saying that he witnessed "disgusting behavior" while in a ride along program. The police say they had no record of him being in that program.

-Zimmerman had 7 prior interactions with police. Anger issues. Pushed an undercover police officer. Took anger management classes. Mutual restraining orders with ex-fiancee. Accused of threatening his estranged wife's father with a gun. Accussed of pointing a shotgun at a girlfriend. Roadrage a->followed and threatened another driver. And he threw a bottle at a girlfriend.

edit: not 7 prior interactions, only the 1st 2.

 

[Gulo Blue]

his wannabe cop history, officious armed-neighborhood-watch conduct was not unzipped enough for you?

No. People are allowed to want to be cops. And whether or not being armed is a rational or irrational decision really depends on the place and conditions.

I got the list above wrong. He had 2 interactions with police before the shooting. When he was 21 he shoved the officer and had the mutual restraining order. All the other stuff came after.

He was unzipped as a 21 year old, but then he took anger management classes and for 7 years, didn't do anything to make the wiki article.

 

[Spartanmack]

Whoa dude.

being on a jury and limiting one's deliberations to the facts in the record is one thing... but we're on the internet and there's this entire subsequent history of Zimmerman's conduct showing him to be an angry, wife-beating nutjob? I mean even viewing these incidents most favorably to Zimmerman, how likely is it that violent trouble just keeps finding him?

And THIS is the guy who's side you're ready to take? You believe his accounts?

Would you be okay with a guy like him "patrolling" your neighborhood?

Do you think the cops were right to just let him walk?

You do realize his life has been turned upside down by a largely misreported case. He has had to move, go into hiding and faced numerous death threats on top of repeated investigations into the case after 3 law enforcement agencies concluded it was self defense and a jury acquitted him of all charges. And in the one subsequent run in w/ the law where any violence was alleged, the complainant recanted and said he didn't hit her or point a weapon at her. Prior to the unfortunate incident, he has no history of violence whatsoever. Not one conviction, arrest or even complaint against him. Contrast that with Trayvon's previous behavior and ask yourself which side you want to take (which side a reasonable person would likely believe - we all know you'd take the side of the black kid and assume the white guy who isn't white is a card carrying Tea Party Republican). This experience may have changed him but if you're going to throw out Trayvon's record before the incident and then convict Zimmerman based on his behaviors AFTER what he's gone through, perhaps you're not as good a lawyer as you think...

 

[Michchamp]

... Prior to the unfortunate incident, he has no history of violence whatsoever. Not one conviction, arrest or even complaint against him. ...

Oh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman#Other_encounters_with_police

 

[Gulo Blue]

Prior to the unfortunate incident, he has no history of violence whatsoever. Not one conviction, arrest or even complaint against him.

He was arrested for shoving that police officer.

 

[tinselwolverine]

wikipedia scan bullets

-at the time of the shooting, he was 1 credit shy (and working on that one credit) of getting an associate's degree in criminal justice.

-a year before the shooting, he participated in a protest/forum about a white Sanford police shooting of a black homeless man, saying that he witnessed "disgusting behavior" while in a ride along program. The police say they had no record of him being in that program.

-Zimmerman had 7 prior interactions with police. Anger issues. Pushed an undercover police officer. Took anger management classes. Mutual restraining orders with ex-fiancee. Accused of threatening his estranged wife's father with a gun. Accussed of pointing a shotgun at a girlfriend. Roadrage a->followed and threatened another driver. And he threw a bottle at a girlfriend.

That last one is total bullcrap; he was tossing her a bottle of Jack Daniels so she could have a swig of it. She was already drunk and she totally wiffed on it; clocked her right in the schnozolla.

She was supposed to have been a softball player for the Lady Gators too.

SEC is so over rated.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Gulo Blue]

Sounds like he got the gun in response to neighborhood pit bulls, as advised by Seminole County Animal Services. He was going to get pepper spray, but they said it wouldn't work fast enough.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425