Zimmerman arrested again

[Gulo Blue]

and attacked Zimmerman, completely unprovoked while Zimmerman was trying to extricate himself from the situation.

"Completely unprovoked"

I thought he was stalking him. Now he's not provoking him.

 

[Michchamp]

"Completely unprovoked"

I thought he was stalking him. Now he's not provoking him.

I think you misunderstand me... I'm saying what could possibly re-habilitate a self-defense claim, given that Zimmerman already pretty much gutted his own defense by following Martin around when the 911 operator said not to. It would take just such a ridiculous situation that spartanracist proposed: Zimmerman got out of his truck - merely to find an address - when Martin came out of nowhere and started violently beating him. Because that sort of thing happens.

My 0.02 on what happened:
I recall there was a witness Martin was on the phone with, and he described some creepy guy following him (Zimmerman). Now, there were questions about her credibility, especially after the lawyers here & cops got to her (though they seem circumstantial, e.g. she said she was underage, but she was actually 18, said she went to the hospital to see Martin, but did not, and do not actually refute her testimony of the phone conversation), but essentially, Martin knew someone was after him, that person was following him on foot, and the altercation started while he was on the phone. She testified hearing Zimmerman address Martin.

Zimmerman tried to stop Martin physically, grabbed his jacket or something like that. at the very least cornered him in an aggressive manner, got more than he bargained for, and pulled out his piece & shot Martin.

that's manslaughter at the very least. reckless homicide. you could make a case for murder 2 as well.

EDIT: her name was Rachel Jeantel, and the CSMonitor has more on her.

 

[Michchamp]

Jeantel apparently testified at trial, and the prosecution allowed what should've been their star witness - to completely undermine herself.

this is pretty nuts... this prosecutor totally blew the entire case against Zimmerman; eesh... Rick Scott appointed her (yikes). I think, given her history, it was intentional.

They allowed Jeantel's testimony to be beset by credibility issues & inconsistencies without redirecting to the basic fact that Martin was on the phone with her when Zimmerman started following him on foot.

Given that the police knew who she was and ignored her when making the decision to let Zimmerman go... man. These guys were terrible!

 

[Spartanmack]

it's really immaterial

only a hack ambulance chaser who thinks he's alan dershowitz - like toastchamp - would say this. Laughably stupid. You must have been absent the day they taught law at law school.

If a kid, with every opportunity to flee instead chooses to assault a guy he thinks is following him and he gets shot while beating that guy, possibly to death I think it's probably relevant that the started it. But Nancy Grace tells you things went down differently because like you, she was there...

 

[Gulo Blue]

I think you misunderstand me... I'm saying what could possibly re-habilitate a self-defense claim, given that Zimmerman already pretty much gutted his own defense by following Martin around when the 911 operator said not to. It would take just such a ridiculous situation that spartanracist proposed: Zimmerman got out of his truck - merely to find an address - when Martin came out of nowhere and started violently beating him. Because that sort of thing happens.

My 0.02 on what happened:
I recall there was a witness Martin was on the phone with, and he described some creepy guy following him (Zimmerman). Now, there were questions about her credibility, especially after the lawyers here & cops got to her (though they seem circumstantial, e.g. she said she was underage, but she was actually 18, said she went to the hospital to see Martin, but did not, and do not actually refute her testimony of the phone conversation), but essentially, Martin knew someone was after him, that person was following him on foot, and the altercation started while he was on the phone. She testified hearing Zimmerman address Martin.

Zimmerman tried to stop Martin physically, grabbed his jacket or something like that. at the very least cornered him in an aggressive manner, got more than he bargained for, and pulled out his piece & shot Martin.

that's manslaughter at the very least. reckless homicide. you could make a case for murder 2 as well.

EDIT: her name was Rachel Jeantel, and the CSMonitor has more on her.

I think a significant amount of time passed between the following/"you don't need to do that" and the attack. Enough for Zimmerman to lose Martin and go looking for him or go looking for an address or anything. (He got the number of digits wrong when he relayed an address to the police...which is strange.)

here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

7:11:59 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."
7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]
7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.
7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]
7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]
7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]
7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]

I don't want to argue Zimmerman's case because if I had to bet, I'd bet he's guilty, but the case just isn't clear cut like you make it out to be. The evidence isn't there to support your assumption that Zimmerman tried to stop Martin.

I didn't realize the fight went on that long though. 44-72 seconds is an eternity.

 

[Spartanmack]

Zimmerman already pretty much gutted his own defense by following Martin around when the 911 operator said not to.

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: We don't need you to do that
Zimmerman: OK

The call goes on for a bit longer with no mention of Martin, just Zimmerman giving the police directions on where to meet him. According to Zimmerman, he got out of his truck to look for an address and that he was not following Martin when Martin assaulted him. Zimmerman later takes and passes a lie detector test.

I really like this bit though...

Zimmerman tried to stop Martin physically, grabbed his jacket or something like that. at the very least cornered him in an aggressive manner, got more than he bargained for, and pulled out his piece & shot Martin...

particularly in light of this bit...

it's really immaterial, since it's clear Zimmerman went out of the way to put himself in a violent situation. (except to internet lawyer wannabes like SpartanVag... who will make up anything and say anything no matter how preposterous it may be) and also since one side of the story was permanently silenced.

Your version of the events (btw, I didn't know you were there. were you there?) is pure speculation, not corroborated by any evidence or testimony - just your own presumption

that story seems ludicrous to me. Zimmerman should've taken his lumps and gone back to the gym.

Should have taken his lumps? People getting their heads bashed against concrete often suffer serious head trauma, permanent damage and even death. People die from fights all the time.

 

[Michchamp]

...
Your version of the events (btw, I didn't know you were there. were you there?) is pure speculation, not corroborated by any evidence or testimony - just your own presumption

...

So apparently I didn't make that obvious enough my saying "My 0.02" before writing my speculation of what I thought happened.

 

[tinselwolverine]

So apparently I didn't make that obvious enough my saying "My 0.02" before writing my speculation of what I thought happened.

Obviously not - 0.02 wtf is that?

$0.02 - oh...got it now.

 

[Spartanmack]

So apparently I didn't make that obvious enough my saying "My 0.02" before writing my speculation of what I thought happened.

apparently I didn't make it obvious enough that i'm pointing out your hypocrisy. Earlier in the thread, when I first gave my .02 indicating what I believed happened you attempted to discredit it by saying "I didn't know you were there. Were you there?" then you later claimed that version (which is corroborated by several investigations and a lie detector test), and the conclusion that a drug abusing, drug and gun dealing kid who portrayed himself as a thug was possibly indeed a thug, were "preposterous" stories which indicate nothing other than that anyone who believes it is racist. Then a couple posts later, despite not being there yourself, which apparently disqualifies anyone else's opinion, you concoct your own clearly biased story of how it went down with nothing to support your argument whatsoever, other than your own prejudice, as the only logical chain of events. And since you have no evidence, you go off on unhinged rants twisting what the opposition says proclaiming it to be preposterous and accusing me going off on unhinged rants.

You're like Al Sharpton - trying to win the argument by shouting the loudest and accusing others of being racist or unhinged lunatics dreaming up outrageous conspiracies...

 

[tinselwolverine]

Just heard on the radio, involved in a shooting earlier today; he suffered a minor gun shot wound.


EDIT: link

 

[Michchamp]

Just heard on the radio, involved in a shooting earlier today; he suffered a minor gun shot wound.


EDIT: link

yowza. the premiums on his life insurance policy were already probably pretty high...

bad luck and trouble seems to follow this guy.

 

[Thumb]

bad luck and trouble seems to follow this guy.

No, the problem is he goes looking for it, even when the police tell him not to.

 

[TheVictors]

sounds like the patron saint of Amendment 2 has some anger issues ...

"In September 2014, police in Lake Mary said a man claimed Zimmerman threatened to kill him during a road rage incident. He wasn't arrested in that incident. Then, in January, he was arrested on another domestic violence complaint after he allegedly threw a wine bottle at a girlfriend, his lawyer Don West told reporters at the time. She later recanted and charges were never filed, CNN affiliate WESH reported."




A client of mine in OC attended some Open/Carry Licensing deal where the Sheriff Dept instructor apparently kicked a guy out for being a 'hot head'


(He'd been seen driving aggressively to the Open/Carry meeting by officers attending and told to leave when identified)




And this is what it boils down to now, doesn't it? Yeah, people kill people ...but aren't angry people with guns more likely to kill people? Or at least shoot at them and try?

 

[Michchamp]

No, the problem is he goes looking for it, even when the police tell him not to.

I know, I was being facetious.

Waiting for Zimmerman's #1 fan to show up and tell us how he was a great guy, neighborhood watch captain hero!, with no history of violence or problems, until the bad bad Trayvon Martin attacked him and the resulting publicity sent Zimmerman's life into a downward spiral.

...

And this is what it boils down to now, doesn't it? Yeah, people kill people ...but aren't angry people with guns more likely to kill people? Or at least shoot at them and try?

No, no, no. Why would you think that? That's not even logical. You would let some bureaucrat in the State Police, or some government agency decide who gets to exercise their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT?!?!

Liberal communist scum...

 

[Michchamp]

Also, I'd like to bump this post:

I'm not implying that it is.

edit: I shouldn't even try to correct this. I admit it. I thought Chicago was state.

Red, it's been about 5 months since this thread was last commented on. do you know all 50 states now?

Did going back and repeating 3rd grade help?

 

[Spartanmack]

I know, I was being facetious.

Waiting for Zimmerman's #1 fan to show up and tell us how he was a great guy, neighborhood watch captain hero!, with no history of violence or problems, until the bad bad Trayvon Martin attacked him and the resulting publicity sent Zimmerman's life into a downward spiral.



No, no, no. Why would you think that? That's not even logical. You would let some bureaucrat in the State Police, or some government agency decide who gets to exercise their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT?!?!

Liberal communist scum...

Just so I understand this correctly, we're supposed to take a step back and see the impact slavery, abolished 250 years ago, Jim Crow laws, unfair lending practices - all abolished 40+ years ago, and institutionalized racism in policing have had on black people in America today - as an explanation, if not a justification for why people are rioting, burning businesses and targeting police for murder. BUT, a guy who also happens to be a disadvantaged ethnic minority, has been investigated by multiple law enforcement agencies who haven't proved anything he's accused of (they've actually disproved the accusations), whose story has been misrepresented from the beginning, and has received countless death threats because of it that he's had to go into hiding - that guy is inherently violent, and it has nothing to do with the circumstances of his life for the past 3 years despite the fact he has no history of violence prior to the tragic incident.

Just look at this story - the guy was shot and the headlines all say "George Zimmerman involved in shooting". Have you ever seen a headline that says the victim was involved in a shooting? The bias is amazing.

You're such a racist, how do you live with yourself?

 

[tinselwolverine]

No, the problem is he goes looking for it, even when the police tell him not to.

I would have stayed in my car like the 911 guy advised him to.

I tend to follow the advice of police and law enforcement when it's offered; I'm funny that way.

Just a gut feeling but my guess is his life wouldn't suck nearly as much if he lived his life and made decisions from that perspective, for whatever reason it is that his life has sucked so much since that night.

 

[Michchamp]

Just so I understand this correctly, we're supposed to take a step back and see the impact slavery, abolished 250 years ago, Jim Crow laws, unfair lending practices - all abolished 40+ years ago, and institutionalized racism in policing have had on black people in America today - as an explanation, if not a justification for why people are rioting, burning businesses and targeting police for murder. BUT, a guy who also happens to be a disadvantaged ethnic minority, has been investigated by multiple law enforcement agencies who haven't proved anything he's accused of (they've actually disproved the accusations), whose story has been misrepresented from the beginning, and has received countless death threats because of it that he's had to go into hiding - that guy is inherently violent, and it has nothing to do with the circumstances of his life for the past 3 years despite the fact he has no history of violence prior to the tragic incident.

Just look at this story - the guy was shot and the headlines all say "George Zimmerman involved in shooting". Have you ever seen a headline that says the victim was involved in a shooting? The bias is amazing.

You're such a racist, how do you live with yourself?

This is some convoluted reasoning (if you can call it reasoning.)

You're trying to say Zimmerman (whatever the hell his background is) faced the same sort of police harassment and societal prejudice & racism that poor African Americans have had to deal with, which is simply absurd.

If anything, the slap on the wrist he received for assaulting an officer in '05 and domestic assault later that year should indicate he was not.

Not to mention the fact that the police just let him go (!) after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin... and only after a nationwide protest and threatened federal civil rights investigation did the state of Florida indict him.

 

[Spartanmack]

This is some convoluted reasoning (if you can call it reasoning.)

You're trying to say Zimmerman (whatever the hell his background is) faced the same sort of police harassment and societal prejudice & racism that poor African Americans have had to deal with, which is simply absurd.

If anything, the slap on the wrist he received for assaulting an officer in '05 and domestic assault later that year should indicate he was not.

Not to mention the fact that the police just let him go (!) after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin... and only after a nationwide protest and threatened federal civil rights investigation did the state of Florida indict him.

No, that's not what I'm saying but I'm not suprised you don't get it. I'm clearly saying he's actually faced the real threat of violence daily since the incident. He's had to look over his shoulder everywhere he goes because of all the death threats he's gotten - because of a biased media that has an agenda and therefore ignore the facts of the case to push an unsupported narrative that fools like you eat up. As opposed to your excuse making for why people are burning down their own cities because of things like slavery, jim crow, unfair lending practices etc, etc that they never actually experienced. That was pretty clear but again, I'm not surprised you don't get it.

And the police didn't just "let him go (!)". Zimmerman was brought into the station, interrogated without an attorney and did a walkthrough of the crime scene the next day with investigators. After determining they didn't have enough evidence for charges at the time, they then released him.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Also, I'd like to bump this post:



Red, it's been about 5 months since this thread was last commented on. do you know all 50 states now?

Did going back and repeating 3rd grade help?

I know way more than 50.