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2024 Hall of Fame Ballot

Cam said:
That's the traditional perspective, but it's all so grey... Who cheated? Who didn't cheat?

Amid the Mitchell Report, the BALCO investigation, we still don't have all the answers. Guys like Bonds should be remembered regardless. I just think it's insane that we'll look back 100 years from now and talk about how great Larry Walker was... Over Bonds/Soda/McGwire/etc.
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The Mitchell Report had at least one coverup too. Big Papi was on the list and then removed through either intimidation or because some people liked him.
I don't want any steroid cheaters in the HOF or known gamblers. But we know there are a few who have already beaten the system and are in there. Plus the mlb network and espn have their people pushing for these know cheats. Look at who they have on tv Alex Rodriguez!!
 
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kalinecountry said:
The Mitchell Report had at least one coverup too. Big Papi was on the list and then removed through either intimidation or because some people liked him.
I don't want any steroid cheaters in the HOF or known gamblers. But we know there are a few who have already beaten the system and are in there. Plus the mlb network and espn have their people pushing for these know cheats. Look at who they have on tv Alex Rodriguez!!
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I feel like most people believe Big Papi was juicing. My understanding is that he wasn't in the Mitchell Report, but he was reported to have tested positive in 2003, which was when they first started testing. I've never understood why he's always gotten a pass for that though. I mean, we know Manny was using, and they were the heart of the Red Sox during those couple of World Series titles. Just feels safe to assume Big Papi was using right there with him.
 
tomdalton22 said:
The problem is, there are guys in the HOF that cheated
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I would imagine a lot of these guys that have gotten in the Hall of Fame are cheaters that just did a better job of not getting caught.

But if we're going way back, there's lots of talk of the rampant drug use (Greenies) in the MLB back in the 70s and 80s.
 
Cam said:
I would imagine a lot of these guys that have gotten in the Hall of Fame are cheaters that just did a better job of not getting caught.

But if we're going way back, there's lots of talk of the rampant drug use (Greenies) in the MLB back in the 70s and 80s.
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I think this has been argued that the greenies were like drinking a dozen cups of strong coffee to give you an energy boost, compared to the huge muscles these juicing players built up.
Kaline said that as he played into his mid 30's he had trouble playing the 2nd game of a double header had trouble to lift his arms, and he was given the game off, Father Time won again.
 
Cam said:
I feel like most people believe Big Papi was juicing. My understanding is that he wasn't in the Mitchell Report, but he was reported to have tested positive in 2003, which was when they first started testing. I've never understood why he's always gotten a pass for that though. I mean, we know Manny was using, and they were the heart of the Red Sox during those couple of World Series titles. Just feels safe to assume Big Papi was using right there with him.
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This red sox nation is like a cult and in denial that even manny juiced. They would say he juiced when he was with cleveland, or after he left the red sox, and david ortiz never did ever.
It became futile to argue with anyone about them.
 
kalinecountry said:
I think this has been argued that the greenies were like drinking a dozen cups of strong coffee to give you an energy boost, compared to the huge muscles these juicing players built up.
Kaline said that as he played into his mid 30's he had trouble playing the 2nd game of a double header had trouble to lift his arms, and he was given the game off, Father Time won again.
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Yeah, my understanding is that Greenies were like Adderall, but who really knows what they were taking? I mean, there's discussion of that going back to the players coming home after World War II.
 
kalinecountry said:
This red sox nation is like a cult and in denial that even manny juiced. They would say he juiced when he was with cleveland, or after he left the red sox, and david ortiz never did ever.
It became futile to argue with anyone about them.
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True, I can't deal with Red Sox fans, or Boston sports fans in general. Pats fans, Bruins fans, Celtics fans. They're all the same. Can't deal with them. :p
 
Cam said:
True, I can't deal with Red Sox fans, or Boston sports fans in general. Pats fans, Bruins fans, Celtics fans. They're all the same. Can't deal with them. :p
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Note: Kaline is a Celtics fan.
 
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Cam, Mitch and a few other of the guys here know this about me.

When we moved to Boston in '57 Dad's first job was in the building next to the old Boston Garden. On Saturdays I would take the bus and then the MBTA train to North Station and we would have lunch at the restaurant that was in the entrance and first floor of the Garden. Afterwards we would go up to the floor that Dad's high speed printer company was. What was special about this 7 floor stucco building was the Celrics front offices were there too, and I would see occasionally see Celtics players like Cousy, Sam and KC Jones, and my favorite Celtic's player John Havlicek. They were all nice to me and I got a couple of signatures that through the years were lost. This stayed with me and I followed them my entire life. We all loved the radio announcer and voice of the Celtics Johnny Most the greatest "Homer" announcer of all time and we would turn the tv volume down and listen to Most on the radio during Celtics games.

Pistons players I liked were Bailey Howell, Dave Bing and Bob Lanier.

I only liked and respected Joe Dumars from the bad boys, the rest of the starting lineup were thugs imo like Laimbeer and Mahorn.

I have nothing against them since and wish they will win at least 10 games this year and not have the worst record in NBA history.
 
kalinecountry said:
Heavy Hitters Ahead: The Next Five Years of BBWAA Hall of Fame Elections
Heavy Hitters Ahead: The Next Five Years of BBWAA Hall of Fame Elections.
Fangraphs

When I see C posey and 2B utley as getting in, it gives me cause for disappointment that worthy Tigers like Bill Freehan and Lou Whitaker don't get voted in by the Veterans Committee that consist of retired players.
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Buster is absolutely guaranteed since they just put in Mauer Power.

I wouldn't expect Utley to get in though. He had a pretty long career, but the accumulative stats really aren't there. A lot of injuries along the way.
 
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