Americans ' Distaste for both Trump and Clinton is record breaking

[Michchamp]

It's actually not a false accusation that muslims were seen celebrating 9/11 here in New Jersey as he said. You're refusal to accept this fact doesn't make the accusation false. ...

so this actually happened?

I'm not refusing to accept this "fact"?

it's more that there is no objective evidence that it occurred.

 

[Michchamp]

that's interesting. You asked me about his specific comments about illegal aliens, not Mexicans in general and his comment about certain, not all Muslims celebrating the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Those comments and his comment about temporarily halting immigration from muslim countries, specifically those engaged in civil wars are the only ones I'm aware of and I limited my comments to those. If you're trying to say I'm defending every statement he's ever made, nice try. Next time, post every statement or a link to these websites you're referring to (I can probably guess who is behind those).

that post was a response to vic, not you, which is why i quoted him, jackass.

 

[Spartanmack]

that post was a response to vic, not you, which is why i quoted him, jackass.

oh, so it was taken out of context? by the way, jackass, just because the Southern Poverty Law Center or some other left wing hate group posts and article says something is racist, that doesn't make it racist. It's sort of like with you - everything they disagree with is racist.

 

[Michchamp]

I understand that people are gullible, but I can't believe more people haven't picked up on that.

it's all pandering!

there was an article i read a couple months ago that details how Trump is basically following some Right-wing political strategist's playbook. I can't remember the guy's name, but the article says it's the same one Buchanan tried to follow in '92 & '96, but didn't quite have the stones to go all-in on the white-nationalism like Trump has. nor was Buchanan willing to make a clown of himself for media coverage.

The article is really worth reading, edit: but i cant fucking find it now!

basically the thinking is: fuck the GOP Establishment; all the things important to them: tax cuts for the wealthy, anti-regulation, cutting social security, free trade agreements, outsourcing jobs, cutting disability benefits, and social welfare... none of those things actually appeal to their voting base, who are the middle-and-lower class whites who have lost jobs and income due to pursuing those policies since Nixon was in the WhiteHouse. all those things are actually contrary their interests. and fuck the GOP Establishment for being foolish enough to convince themselves otherwise. What a candidate needs to do is point out the avg. white working man is poor, is screwed by the big corporations, and what not. he needs to admit it! and he needs to blame someone the avg. GOP voter can get enthusiastic about hating: minorities and foreigners.

Trump has simply followed the playbook to perfection. It is 1930's white nationalist populism; old-school fascism. The only difference between Trump and earlier generations is that he has twitter.

He's essentially done nothing but follow the playbook. he's never held office before, never governed anything, laid no groundwork for a political coalition, done no public service or organizing. Trump's actual domestic and foreign policies will be made up as needed. he had no agenda coming in.

 

[Michchamp]

oh, so it was taken out of context? by the way, jackass, just because the Southern Poverty Law Center or some other left wing hate group posts and article says something is racist, that doesn't make it racist. It's sort of like with you - everything they disagree with is racist.

if Donald Trump's statements on Mexicans, Blacks, muslims, etc aren't racist, that word has no meaning.

 

[Spartanmack]

so this actually happened?

I'm not refusing to accept this "fact"?

it's more that there is no objective evidence that it occurred.

you mean no evidence like coverage of it in the NY Post, the Washington Post, on CNN (by Chris Cuomo, no less), investigators saying the witnessed "swarms" of people celebrating on roof tops in Jersey City? Coverage of it on local Jersey City News like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=3auKMHkZJnQ

Is that the objective evidence that doesn't exist? remember in 2001, the most advanced cell phones maybe had a 3 megapixel point and shoot camera and the first iPhone didn't hit the market until 6 years later - there weren't video cameras everywhere like there are today. So just because we don't have video evidence of the celebrations, doesn't mean they didn't happen and the contemporaneous news coverage provides pretty objective evidence that they in fact did. But you have your mind made up (for you by organizations like the SPLC) that Trump is a racist, so he must be...

 

[Spartanmack]

if Donald Trump's statements on Mexicans, Blacks, muslims, etc aren't racist, that word has no meaning.

if the word has no meaning it's because of boys who cry wolf, like you, and label everything they disagree with as racist.

 

[tomdalton22]

it's one thing to hear this crap from an idiot on the internet, or a drunk uncle, but it is, or at least should be, unacceptable for someone who aspires to be a leader of society to make these kind of statements. for one, they're lazy, shoot-from-the-hip accusations that sweep all types of people up together, whtehr they fit those characteristics or not.

You seem to do this regarding republicans and religious people quite often. I assume that you are not a drunk uncle so you must be the former.

 

[Michchamp]

You seem to do this regarding republicans and religious people quite often. I assume that you are not a drunk uncle so you must be the former.

True, but I am not running for president. And as far as I know, neither is anyone else here. We are all just idiots on the internet. Or drunk uncles (like Vic or Tinsel)

 

[Michchamp]

if the word has no meaning it's because of boys who cry wolf, like you, and label everything they disagree with as racist.

...not that I've done that here, instead providing some pretty specific examples which you keep scurrying away from.

 

[TheVictors]

if the word has no meaning it's because of boys who cry wolf, like you, and label everything they disagree with as racist.

so an acquaintance in the neighborhood was talking about renting out a house he owns and how crazy the Denver rental market is. The house is located in what was a predominantly black neighborhood, but now more gentrified and diverse. this property owner basically said he wasn't going to rent to any black families but because of the "bullshit affirmative action," he had to at least take the applications. I asked how he was going to handle not being discriminatory in choosing who to rent to and he said he would just use credit scores as the reason.

So ...is Chris racist? he clearly doesn't want to rent to a black family for whatever reason but can point to (hopefully, in his case) worse credit scores by black applicants as his reason...

I'd call this covert racism, and by far the most common form of "racism" there is.

 

[tomdalton22]

True, but I am not running for president. And as far as I know, neither is anyone else here. We are all just idiots on the internet. Or drunk uncles (like Vic or Tinsel)

lol...I probably fall into both categories

 

[Gulo Blue]

lol...I probably fall into both categories

I was just going to say something about being a drunk idiot on the internet...but then I realized that I'm also an uncle.

 

[Spartanmack]

...not that I've done that here, instead providing some pretty specific examples which you keep scurrying away from.

which ones have I scurried away from? the only specific examples you've mentioned were the comments about illegal aliens and muslims celebrating 9/11 which I addressed twice. The others are vague statements about internet sites compiling quotes from Trump going back to the 80s. If anyone is scurrying away from anything, it's you by not providing specifics then claiming you provided the specifics. You don't provide links to any of them so I didn't address them. That's not skirting. Also, I'm not supporting Trump so I'm not going to scrutinize statements he made in 1988, find the full context and quotes (since I'm sure the SPLC or whatever libtard website you're referring to only provides a snipet of the remarks) and make arguments to defend the guy. But with regard to the 2 statements you specifically mentioned, those were not racist generalizations. They were specific to a certain subset of people engaging in the behavior he was describing.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'd call this covert racism, and by far the most common form of "racism" there is.

I think a person can get to the same place either way. This guy realizes that he doesn't want a black family there; he probably knows he's racist. But there are also people that would be looking for an excuse, find the credit scores, and decide that's a good qualifier and not realize that what they were looking for was an excuse to go with their bias. Then there are people that would know up front, it's a safer bet to go with someone with a high credit score. They could end up making the same decision without being racist at all.

Either way, I suspect the far more impactful form of racism is in this covert range of maybe aware, maybe unaware bias, which you can't easily separate from similar decisions made by people with little to no bias.

 

[Spartanmack]

so an acquaintance in the neighborhood was talking about renting out a house he owns and how crazy the Denver rental market is. The house is located in what was a predominantly black neighborhood, but now more gentrified and diverse. this property owner basically said he wasn't going to rent to any black families but because of the "bullshit affirmative action," he had to at least take the applications. I asked how he was going to handle not being discriminatory in choosing who to rent to and he said he would just use credit scores as the reason.

So ...is Chris racist? he clearly doesn't want to rent to a black family for whatever reason but can point to (hopefully, in his case) worse credit scores by black applicants as his reason...

I'd call this covert racism, and by far the most common form of "racism" there is.

if he said he wasn't going to rent to any black families, yes he is racist. And I'd call that overt, direct, blatant racism covered up by covert discrimination (using credit scores to racially discriminate). The fact that he's saying it to a white guy and not the people he's actually discriminating against doesn't alter the character of his racism.

 

[TheVictors]

I think a person can get to the same place either way. This guy realizes that he doesn't want a black family there; he probably knows he's racist. But there are also people that would be looking for an excuse, find the credit scores, and decide that's a good qualifier and not realize that what they were looking for was an excuse to go with their bias. Then there are people that would know up front, it's a safer bet to go with someone with a high credit score. They could end up making the same decision without being racist at all.

Either way, I suspect the far more impactful form of racism is in this covert range of maybe aware, maybe unaware bias, which you can't easily separate from similar decisions made by people with little to no bias.

I'm just saying that racism/discrimination is alive and well and while some throw the accusations around too loosely -- eg, you're an Anti-Dentite -- things have simply changed so that we can less overtly and institutionally apply it.

What is it that was said about a show like All in the Family ..? Archie Bunker would never be able to get away with saying such things now on TV ...so which is worse? An overt and open racist or one that hides behind a veil?

 

[TheVictors]

if he said he wasn't going to rent to any black families, yes he is racist. And I'd call that overt, direct, blatant racism covered up by covert discrimination (using credit scores to racially discriminate). The fact that he's saying it to a white guy and not the people he's actually discriminating against doesn't alter the character of his racism.

completely agree. I think he felt comfortable telling us fellow whiteys that he wasn't going to rent to any [blacks] because he assumed we would all share his opinion about people of that race as tenants.. I've been told more racist jokes than I care to remember and half of them because I've got blue eyes, fair skin and blonde/gray hair. It's uncomfortable.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'm just saying that racism/discrimination is alive and well and while some throw the accusations around too loosely -- eg, you're an Anti-Dentite -- things have simply changed so that we can less overtly and institutionally apply it.

What is it that was said about a show like All in the Family ..? Archie Bunker would never be able to get away with saying such things now on TV ...so which is worse? An overt and open racist or one that hides behind a veil?

I never watched All in the Family, but these days, it seems like main characters can be pretty horrible people. I'm trying to think of a modern, well-liked, racist. I'm drawing a blank on a really good example. George and Lucille Bluth from Arrested Development?

 

[tomdalton22]

I never watched All in the Family, but these days, it seems like main characters can be pretty horrible people. I'm trying to think of a modern, well-liked, racist. I'm drawing a blank on a really good example. George and Lucille Bluth from Arrested Development?

The bikers on S.O.A.