Back to the trade:

[Mitchrapp]

I feel better and better getting AJ and Max. Awesomeness.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

that trade was a total win.

no question.

Don't forget Phil Coke loll.

 

[Mitchrapp]

that trade was a total win.

no question.

Don't forget Phil Coke loll.

That might take it back to being even. Lol. I have a new hatred for Coke after this season.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

The tigers have gotten some good innings out of him....he's sucked this last half of 2012 but all in all a plus.


Salaries aside and just player for player I'd rather have Ajax/Scherzer versus Granderson/Ejax.


Maybe it's homerism but the age differential is the key.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The tigers have gotten some good innings out of him....he's sucked this last half of 2012 but all in all a plus.


Salaries aside and just player for player I'd rather have Ajax/Scherzer versus Granderson/Ejax.


Maybe it's homerism but the age differential is the key.

And the fact Granderson turned himself into a .225 hitter, a bad defensive player and a home run guy that would drop to about 25 playing here. Granderson is way, way overrated.

 

[Thumb]

The trade was a win for everyone but Arizona really.

Yankees are happy with Grandy.

Were happy with Ajax and Max, (were)somewhat content with Coke, and could care less about Schlereth.

D'Backs had EJax, and he's gone, and all they have now is Kennedy.

Detroit easily came out on top though

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Dude I know plenty of Yankee fans and they all hate Granderson now after this year.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The trade was a win for everyone but Arizona really.

Yankees are happy with Grandy.

Were happy with Ajax and Max, (were)somewhat content with Coke, and could care less about Schlereth.

D'Backs had EJax, and he's gone, and all they have now is Kennedy.

Detroit easily came out on top though

I had forgotten about that dude. What the hell is he up too?

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

Dude I know plenty of Yankee fans and they all hate Granderson now after this year.

he's back to not being able to hit lefties after showing some real strides last year.

hard to pay 15 million for a guy that struggles that badly in that area.

I would have to say it was one of the largest reasons detroit traded him.

 

[Rebbiv]

.762 OPS versus LHP as a lefthanded hitter is hardly "struggling".

AL LHB vs LHP

2012 = .669 OPS

2011 = .675 OPS

2010 = .669 OPS


FYI....Granderson career OPS versus LHP = .699

 

[Rebbiv]

Dude I know plenty of Yankee fans and they all hate Granderson now after this year.

I have lived in NY for the past 8+ years. I have no clue what Yankee fans you know, but they certainly are not the majority.

 

[johnny2x2x]

There is no doubt that the Tigers got the better end of that trade. Granderson has regressed and is turniing into Rob Deer at the plate. He's an above average CF, nothing more. I don't think a GM in the league would trade Jackson for Granderson straight up.

Scherzer has top of the rotation stuff and is one of the better young pitchers in the leauge. EJ is a decent inning eater, but is at best a #3 pitcher.

We got the 2 best players and they're young to boot. It's almost as good of a trade as Maybin and Miller for Cabrera.

 

[wheels002]

I have a few friends who live in NY and are die hard Yankee fans. They don't hate Grandy but they are starting to get frustrated because he K's way to much especially with runners on. He also isnt making as many wow plays in CF that he used to. Much like he was here Grandy is very hit and miss. When he is hot he is very hot but when he is cold you cant hit water if he fell out of a boat. Thats why the Yanks struggle more now than in the past. The once great hitters they had have all gotten old and not as reliable as they once were.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

rebbiv do you have splits on granderson OPS away versus lefties?


for the record his OPS versus lefties in 2009 was .483. which is my whole point in the tigers pulling the trigger on that trade. His OPS versus lefties was .640ish in 2010. so only in the last two seasons has his OPS shown above league average. He still only hit .218 this year and how much of that was aided by playing in NY?

and comparing him to the rest of the league is nice and all but he's a 15 million dollar a year player so he should be well above league average in that regard. If you need a hit on the road versus a lefty Granderson is just about the last guy in that lineup you'd want at the plate. For 15 million a year.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Granderson changed his game. He wants to hit home runs and that's okay but his average suffers, his defense is worse (at one time I thought he was a hell of a CF), at least until I saw a real CF in AJ. He's a 25 hr guy in Comerica that struggles to hit for average and couldn't cover the spacious OF.

With age, money, talent etc. I'd take AJ straight up over Grandy.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

it's easy to say it's a trade that both teams won..the yankees got a player who couldn't be more suited to play there for a team that can absorb salary while the tigers ended up with the younger, cheaper, and better defender of the two.

For me it's just hard to say a guy like granderson is a 15 million dollar a year player when he can be tremendously limited in certain situations and in 2009 Granderson was the worst everyday player versus lefties by a large margin. It was a move detroit had to make to get the return on value that granderson was still able to command despite his shaky 2009 campaign.

 

[Rebbiv]

it's easy to say it's a trade that both teams won..the yankees got a player who couldn't be more suited to play there for a team that can absorb salary while the tigers ended up with the younger, cheaper, and better defender of the two.

For me it's just hard to say a guy like granderson is a 15 million dollar a year player when he can be tremendously limited in certain situations and in 2009 Granderson was the worst everyday player versus lefties by a large margin. It was a move detroit had to make to get the return on value that granderson was still able to command despite his shaky 2009 campaign.

2009 versus LHP (100 PAs)

R. Winn .384 OPS

G. Parra .470 OPS

C. Rasmus .474 OPS

Granderson .484 OPS



Players of note since 2009 vs LHP (575 min PA)

D. DeJesus 48.27 RC/650 .595 OPS

A. Ethier 52.23 RC/650 .608 OPS

C. Crawford 68.05 RC/650 .673 OPS

M. Bourn 70.16 RC/650 .674 OPS

J. Morneau 71.75 RC/650 .713 OPS

Granderson 75.73 RC/650 .718 OPS

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

2009 versus LHP (100 PAs)

R. Winn .384 OPS

G. Parra .470 OPS

C. Rasmus .474 OPS

Granderson .484 OPS



Players of note since 2009 vs LHP (575 min PA)

D. DeJesus 48.27 RC/650 .595 OPS

A. Ethier 52.23 RC/650 .608 OPS

C. Crawford 68.05 RC/650 .673 OPS

M. Bourn 70.16 RC/650 .674 OPS

J. Morneau 71.75 RC/650 .713 OPS

Granderson 75.73 RC/650 .718 OPS

so basically you're resorting to cherrypicking stats rather than contesting the assertion that granderson is not worth 15 million dollars.

the fact you were trying to find someone who was actually worse than granderson in 2009 versus lefties is rather comical...and that bunch combined makes far less than granderson by himself.

Even in New York Yankee Land production is nice but what ROI are you getting on your money. Merely throwing numbers out there without regard to the money being shelled out is not realistic from evaluating a GM's decision. Even in your list of Morneau etc...outside of Ethier those players either make less than granderson or are significantly underperforming due to injury or otherwise (morneau/crawford) so comparing granderson to shitty contracts doesn't justify granderson's.

 

[Rebbiv]

so basically you're resorting to cherrypicking stats rather than contesting the assertion that granderson is not worth 15 million dollars.

the fact you were trying to find someone who was actually worse than granderson in 2009 versus lefties is rather comical...and that bunch combined makes far less than granderson by himself.

Even in New York Yankee Land production is nice but what ROI are you getting on your money. Merely throwing numbers out there without regard to the money being shelled out is not realistic from evaluating a GM's decision. Even in your list of Morneau etc...outside of Ethier those players either make less than granderson or are significantly underperforming due to injury or otherwise (morneau/crawford) so comparing granderson to shitty contracts doesn't justify granderson's.

I wasn't "cherry picking"!

Where do you get the $15 Mil for Granderson? His contract has him making $10 Mil in 2012 and $13 Mil in 2013. And you infer I listed just players of the same salary range.

The fact is that most LHP have trouble with LHP. More-so than RHB have against RHP. Whether it is Shin-Soo Choo (.695 Career), Alex Avila (.682 Career), Colby Rasmus (.626 Career), Casey Kotchman (.654 Career), Jason Heyward (.665 Career), Alex Gordon (.700 Career), James Loney (.658 Career), Brett Gardner (.697 Career), Adam Lind (.607 career) or Eric Hosmer (.588 Career). Based on sample size, some years these guys do better than others. But in the end, just like hitting w/RISP, over a career, the numbers stabilize.

Joe Mauer vs LHP (.750 career)

2009 = .910
2010 = .711
2011 = .562
2012 = .754

Luis Gonzalez vs LHP (.784 Career)

1996 = .532
1997 = .694
1998 = .736 (year with Tigers)

1999 = .899 (1st year with D-Backs and change in stance)
2000 = .781
2001 = 1.038



I will also point out that hitting against LHP only comprises about 25% of the season.


All of this negativity to a player that is very much earned his salary.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

Granderson is due 15 million next year with the additional 2 million vesting from performance bonuses.

This thread is about whether or not the tigers won the trade...my point is that granderson costs significantly more than what jackson has to this point and based on that compared to production means the tigers netted more value...you can sit and discuss granderson's individual production on its own merits but to ignore his incredibly horrific 2009 season versus lefties is to ignore one of the biggest determinants for trading him in the first place. The fact he plays in the most friendly ballpark for left handed power hitters masks his issues that are very much still there. 2009 wasn't merely an outlier...it was the kind of struggles that very much put into question his long term value. We weren't talking a few points off league average (in regards to lefties) we're talking the worst in the entire league.

i'm not saying granderson doesn't have good value (he had a very nice season last year) but you and I both know if he was still a tiger he wouldn't be putting out that kind of production and based on what he was trending towards it was looking bleak.

going forward granderson's continuing regressing defensive skills along with his limitations we're discussing very much puts into question his value...fortunately for him and NY it's the best situation for him.