Back to the trade:

[Mitchrapp]

Granderson is an average OF with no ability other than to hit home runs. Greatly helped by the stadium he plays in.

 

[mhughes0021]

AJ needs to continue to improve. He still Ks waaaaaayyyyy too much to be a lead off guy. definitely can after showing real strides this year. Hopefully he continues to get better at the plate and the average this year wasnt an anomoly.

 

[Rebbiv]

Granderson is due 15 million next year with the additional 2 million vesting from performance bonuses.

This thread is about whether or not the tigers won the trade...my point is that granderson costs significantly more than what jackson has to this point and based on that compared to production means the tigers netted more value...you can sit and discuss granderson's individual production on its own merits but to ignore his incredibly horrific 2009 season versus lefties is to ignore one of the biggest determinants for trading him in the first place. The fact he plays in the most friendly ballpark for left handed power hitters masks his issues that are very much still there. 2009 wasn't merely an outlier...it was the kind of struggles that very much put into question his long term value. We weren't talking a few points off league average (in regards to lefties) we're talking the worst in the entire league.

i'm not saying granderson doesn't have good value (he had a very nice season last year) but you and I both know if he was still a tiger he wouldn't be putting out that kind of production and based on what he was trending towards it was looking bleak.

going forward granderson's continuing regressing defensive skills along with his limitations we're discussing very much puts into question his value...fortunately for him and NY it's the best situation for him.

Solely on cost did DET win this trade. Granderson, despite many objections from here, has out-performed Jackson to date. Now, add Scherzer, Coke and Schlereth into the mix, then yes, to date, DET got the better of the trade.


Granderson vs LHP

2006 (164 PA) .671 OPS 24.2% PA vs LHP
2007 (133 PA) .494 OPS 19.7% PA vs LHP
2008 (159 PA) .739 OPS 25.3% PA vs LHP
2009 (199 PA) .484 OPS 28.0% PA vs LHP

2010 (174 PA) .647 OPS 33.0% PA vs LHP
2011 (219 PA) .944 OPS 31.7% PA vs LHP
2012 (247 PA) .762 OPS 36.1% PA vs LHP


From 06-09, DET as a team averaged 25.6% PA vs LHP. From 10-12, NYY as a team has averaged 32.6% PA vs LHP.


Last 3 years Away (assumes park neutral)

Granderson 93.71 RC/650 .332 OBP .475 SLG .807 OPS 20.83 PA/HR

Jackson 79.58 RC/650 .333 OBP .404 SLG .737 OPS 53.16 PA/HR


We can only speculate what Granderson stats would be if he had played in DET the last 3 years. Pretty sure it would have been above average, with a higher BAVG and less HRs, but still around 30 or so. Keep in mind, it is known that Comerica increases BAVG.


I would also offer the counter to Granderson's supposed decline in defense. I believe there is no accurate stat that can determine that. UZR/150 is flawed based on park adjustments and data pertaining to OF hit data. Having decent fielders to your left or right can impact your UZR/150. One way or the other, someone is being deducted for a base hit that falls in.


Granderson UZR/150 vs LF and RF playing next to him and OPP BAVG for balls to the OF

2006 13.6 vs -2.1 LF -7.4 RF .555 OPP BAVG
2007 14.6 vs -1.1 LF 8.0 RF .554 OPP BAVG
2008 -11.9 vs -5.8 LF -14.8 RF .558 OPP BAVG
2009 -1.4 vs 1.4 LF -1.6 RF .558 OPP BAVG

2010 7.9 vs 24.5 LF 0.1 RF .535 OPP BAVG
2011 -5.3 vs 25.4 LF 10.5 RF .550 OPP BAVG
2012 -18.2 vs 12.3 LF -1.4 RF .569 OPP BAVG

Jackson
2010 5.7 vs 10.4 LF -4.8 RF .545 OPP BAVG
2011 8.0 vs -0.3 LF -5.0 RF .543 OPP BAVG
2012 4.7 vs -7.1 LF -17.5 RF .568 OPP BAVG


As a comparison, Miguel Cabrera has a .626 BAVG to balls hit to the OF.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

They changed his swing and approach in NY to be better suited for that short porch. Problem is he has regressed in fielding and the rest of his hitting has been regressed thanks to that new HR approach. He seriously is becoming a 1 dimensional player, after being considered a 5 tool guy. And his 1 dimension, his power may be misleading thanks to that short porch.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

on sheer production alone yes granderson has put up better numbers than jackson...his 2011 season was quite good.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Dude batted .220 and was an average CF. When people bring up Trout for MVP, even here, the defense is always brought up. I don't know what AJ will do next season but give me a consistent .300 hitter that plays a superior CF over a low average, nothing CF that happens to hit home runs. I'll take AJ every day.

I don't need to see any WAR, UZR/150 or other numbers that try to justify who had the better 2012 season. It was AJ and it wasn't even close. Too many times, Grandy was non-existence.