Berry arrested for DUI

[Mitchrapp]

Well, I never said he was good. Difference between good and solid IMO lol

I thing good=solid.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I'm not sure I'd call the 24th best as solid.

Really??

24th out of approx. 160 CB's isn't solid?? Thats inside the top 15% of all NFL corners.

Other 24th performers....

24th in Receptions - Nate Burelson......i'd say he is a solid WR
24th in Rec Yards - Reggie Wayne......i'd say he is pretty solid
24th in Rushing - LaGarret Blount......solid RB
24th in Passing - Kyle Orton.....pretty much the epitome of a solid NFL QB.
24th in Sacks - Brian Orakpo, Charles Johnson, Osi Umenyiora, or LaMarr Woodley...take your pick.

Berry may not be great....but there is no chance in hell he gets cut over a DUI (unless something worse comes out).

 

[Mitchrapp]

Really??

24th out of approx. 160 CB's isn't solid?? Thats inside the top 15% of all NFL corners.

Other 24th performers....

24th in Receptions - Nate Burelson......i'd say he is a solid WR
24th in Rec Yards - Reggie Wayne......i'd say he is pretty solid
24th in Rushing - LaGarret Blount......solid RB
24th in Passing - Kyle Orton.....pretty much the epitome of a solid NFL QB.
24th in Sacks - Brian Orakpo, Charles Johnson, Osi Umenyiora, or LaMarr Woodley...take your pick.

Berry may not be great....but there is no chance in hell he gets cut over a DUI (unless something worse comes out).

Well, its not quite like that. I guess you can make any stat look good.

 

[Diggler Cometh]

Really??

24th out of approx. 160 CB's isn't solid?? Thats inside the top 15% of all NFL corners.

Other 24th performers....

24th in Receptions - Nate Burelson......i'd say he is a solid WR
24th in Rec Yards - Reggie Wayne......i'd say he is pretty solid
24th in Rushing - LaGarret Blount......solid RB
24th in Passing - Kyle Orton.....pretty much the epitome of a solid NFL QB.
24th in Sacks - Brian Orakpo, Charles Johnson, Osi Umenyiora, or LaMarr Woodley...take your pick.

Berry may not be great....but there is no chance in hell he gets cut over a DUI (unless something worse comes out).

We'd better lock him up with a 7 year ext if he's truly that good... Shows what I know. I thought he would be in the Arena league by next year...

 

[grandy]

We'd better lock him up with a 7 year ext if he's truly that good... Shows what I know. I thought he would be in the Arena league by next year...

IMO, he's better suited for a career in demolition derby.

 

[mhughes0021]

you guys are looking at those numbers the wrong way lol. Hes not the 24th best CB just cause he was graded that way by some website lol. He was WELL below 24th in tackles. Well below 24th in passes defensed. Well below 24th in INTs. Well below 24th in games played. Well below 24th in games started. And he was First in dropped picks in a wild card game. First in acting like a douchebag to his fans. And hes been excellent at getting injured. How that for stats! lol

 

[lp4ever41]

you guys are looking at those numbers the wrong way lol. Hes not the 24th best CB just cause he was graded that way by some website lol. He was WELL below 24th in tackles. Well below 24th in passes defensed. Well below 24th in INTs. Well below 24th in games played. Well below 24th in games started. And he was First in dropped picks in a wild card game. First in acting like a douchebag to his fans. And hes been excellent at getting injured. How that for stats! lol

Tackles is not a good stat for a corner to be leading. And Wright matched Revis in INTs last year. The point is, with corners, you can't just evaluate stats. You need people who watch the film and evaluate each play. The numbers in the article I posted aren't stats, they're GRADES. And that website has infinitely more credibility than anyone on this board, and about as much credibility as you're gonna find online. If you don't believe me, ask Rotoworld.

 

[lp4ever41]

I thing good=solid.

K. I guess I consider solid similar to average.

 

[tonyballs]

Our CB's are garbage. Therefore, Berry being the dumbass that he is, still won't get cut. They can't afford to lose CB's.

Ya heard me....

 

[lionsFTW]

LP you can't win this fight. This is not a shot at anyone on the other side but arguing advanced metrics with people who give them no weight/understand nothing about them is like arguing science with devoutly religious people. Both sides will never agree on a happy medium (nor should they????).

 

[lp4ever41]

LP you can't win this fight. This is not a shot at anyone on the other side but arguing advanced metrics with people who give them no weight/understand nothing about them is like arguing science with devoutly religious people. Both sides will never agree on a happy medium (nor should they????).

Yeah, I know, but I can't help myself sometimes lol. At least there are some people on this board who can appreciate some more in-depth analysis.

 

[zyxt9]

LP you can't win this fight. This is not a shot at anyone on the other side but arguing advanced metrics with people who give them no weight/understand nothing about them is like arguing science with devoutly religious people. Both sides will never agree on a happy medium (nor should they????).

You mean like the astrophysicist who proclaimed the other day that G-d is not needed for the Big Bang, that it can all be explained by the Laws of Physics...then proceeded to say (paraphrasing), "Of course, one has to wonder how the Laws of Physics came into being, and the likely answer there is some sort of Divine Spark. However, that begs the question how did the Divine Spark come to be there. It becomes an endless chase of what caused the next thing to exist at that point, so I've chosen to say the chasing ends at the Laws of Physics."

This really caused me to LMFAO because the story made it appear the guy was proclaiming definitively the non-existence of G-d when in reality he is proclaiming his personal decision to stop the "endless search" at the Laws of Physics. Still it pretty much sums up the fact it becomes a matter of choice. Either you believe the Laws of Physics have somehow always been there or that a "Divine Spark" brought them into existence, which begins anew the questions of what caused that to exist. Ultimately, the choice is yours to make.

Likewise, you either believe the advanced metrics or you believe what you have witnessed with your own eyes and believe to be truth. Either way, the metrics will never be able to tell the complete truth as they are nothing more than stats and one's perceptions will never be able to provide a truthful, non-biased actuality. One ends up having to blend the two to come to a belief that one is comfortable in having and defending in a debate, all the while knowing it is impossible to have a 100% accurate point of view.

 

[Mitchrapp]

You can read the article about the +WPA or the NFL Stats' +EPA or whatever else they say and it all boils down to maybe Berry can crack the starting lineup, FOR THE LIONS.

I don't need metrics to tell me our secondary sucked. So whoop de doo, he can crack the starting lineup for the Lions.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

You can read the article about the +WPA or the NFL Stats' +EPA or whatever else they say and it all boils down to maybe Berry can crack the starting lineup, FOR THE LIONS.

I don't need metrics to tell me our secondary sucked. So whoop de doo, he can crack the starting lineup for the Lions.

Barry Sanders couldn't crack the starting lineup for his college team until someone graduated (Thurman Thomas)......so......did he suck??

Adrian Peterson backed up Chester Taylor in Minnesota for a 1/2 a year......did HE suck??

Fuck, Jerry Rice sat behind Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon his rookie year.....what's your fuckin point??

Listen, nobody here said Berry is a great corner. The grades provided give validity to the argument that he is a solid NFL corner. It carries more weight that your "he sucks, he got burnt a couple times" evaluation.

Does it me he is the 24th best CB in the league. Nope. Just means that, as graded by that website, he was the 24th best CB in the league last year. Just last year. Not every year. Not all time.

Does Berry need to stay healthy this year? Hell yes.
Does he need to PROVE he belongs in the discussion of solid NFL starters? Yep.
Can he get better? Yep.
Should we cut him because of a DUI? Nope.

The numbers provided by the people who do that shit for a living point to the fact that we have a young, solid, EXTREMELY CHEAP CB that might progress into a good NFL corner. I for one hope he backs up all his talk and becomes a force in this league.

He fucked up. He'll pay for it one way or another.

 

[mhughes0021]

Tackles is not a good stat for a corner to be leading. And Wright matched Revis in INTs last year. The point is, with corners, you can't just evaluate stats. You need people who watch the film and evaluate each play. The numbers in the article I posted aren't stats, they're GRADES. And that website has infinitely more credibility than anyone on this board, and about as much credibility as you're gonna find online. If you don't believe me, ask Rotoworld.

Well I dont know what games they were watching but if they watched any of our games none of our DBs belong in the top 24 of anything. agree to disagree but imo berry is on my short list of starters id love to replace along with Peterman, Raiola, Best, Avril, Levy and Spievey.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Barry Sanders couldn't crack the starting lineup for his college team until someone graduated (Thurman Thomas)......so......did he suck??

Adrian Peterson backed up Chester Taylor in Minnesota for a 1/2 a year......did HE suck??

Fuck, Jerry Rice sat behind Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon his rookie year.....what's your fuckin point??

Listen, nobody here said Berry is a great corner. The grades provided give validity to the argument that he is a solid NFL corner. It carries more weight that your "he sucks, he got burnt a couple times" evaluation.

Does it me he is the 24th best CB in the league. Nope. Just means that, as graded by that website, he was the 24th best CB in the league last year. Just last year. Not every year. Not all time.

Does Berry need to stay healthy this year? Hell yes.
Does he need to PROVE he belongs in the discussion of solid NFL starters? Yep.
Can he get better? Yep.
Should we cut him because of a DUI? Nope.

The numbers provided by the people who do that shit for a living point to the fact that we have a young, solid, EXTREMELY CHEAP CB that might progress into a good NFL corner. I for one hope he backs up all his talk and becomes a force in this league.

He fucked up. He'll pay for it one way or another.

You missed the point. Houston or whoever is ahead of Berry in the Depth chart is no Thurman Thomas or Adrian Peterson. That was a horrible horible analogy.

And I didn't say he should be cut but he hasn't a done a thing to make me think he is a quality CB.

 

[lionsFTW]

Likewise, you either believe the advanced metrics or you believe what you have witnessed with your own eyes and believe to be truth. Either way, the metrics will never be able to tell the complete truth as they are nothing more than stats and one's perceptions will never be able to provide a truthful, non-biased actuality. One ends up having to blend the two to come to a belief that one is comfortable in having and defending in a debate, all the while knowing it is impossible to have a 100% accurate point of view.

Exactamente!

1) None of us are professional scouts who watch tons of tape.
2) None of us are a professional NFL statitician.

We can pair the eye test with our best understanding of the numbers to try and come up with our best guess as to whats accurate. Some put too much weight in one or the other and that's really fine, I guess. It's the ones who completely dismiss one or the other that should get written off quite quickly in a debate as their logic tends to be easily broken down or contain too many fallacies.

But yeah, you hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph.

 

[mhughes0021]

Yeah, I know, but I can't help myself sometimes lol. At least there are some people on this board who can appreciate some more in-depth analysis.

If he put up those grades with Eric Wrights sample size then maybe ill give him some credit for having a decent year......but he didnt.

 

[lionsFTW]

Mitch, he's played like 15 total games in his career. The pyramids weren't built in a week my friend!

That's not meant to say Berry is the next Reivis or anything. Just that you basing his ceiling off the sample size we currently have is like saying what some MLB rookies ceiling's going to be off of his first 300 career at bats. Slow down and let the man grow a little.

Edit: There's an incredible amount of variance in everything around us. Don't jump to conclusions from one or two bad games played by a guy who's basically in his first year.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Mitch, he's played like 15 total games in his career. The pyramids weren't built in a week my friend!

That's not meant to say Berry is the next Reivis or anything. Just that you basing his ceiling off the sample size we currently have is like saying what some MLB rookies ceiling's going to be off of his first 300 career at bats. Slow down and let the man grow a little.

Edit: There's an incredible amount of variance in everything around us. Don't jump to conclusions from one or two bad games played by a guy who's basically in his first year.

Okay, for a first year player he was - not too sucky. Better?