Big Ten Football Division Alignments

[Michchamp]

I don't agree with moving things around. we've only been doing this for 4 seasons (2014, 15, 16, 17). and this is arguably just a bad year; much worse year than the prior two.

sure it's unbalanced, and historically would be as well, but they tried weighing the divisions out, remember? Legends and Leaders? everyone hated it & complained, so they went with a strict geographic split.

FWIW, the last two championship games have been close; Iowa had a decent chance to beat State & I thought Wisconsin would win last year.

 

[thewolverines24]

Just get rid of divisions in all conferences. They are pointless. The two best teams should play each other for conference championships. Not the best team and some team that just happened to be in a shitty division.

 

[dubbsco]

You are trying man. Called you out for your BS comment that people around here were hunky dory with the divisions, and the best you can do is nitpicking the expression. I actually remember vividly the day the divisions were made and how people thought they were horribly stacked.

Move along. Time to pick your battles on a different one.

 

[hungry]

Let's move OSU and Michigan to the west. I've been saying since day one that Michigan should be in the West. Then maybe someday, they could be champions of the west.

 

[biggunsbob]

several people thought that. I argued against it and I don't recall a single uofm fan agreeing. sbee and johnny2x and a couple other MSU posters also were totally fine with it. Go back and take a look. Tinsel's here now saying it's not a big deal. Nobody seemed to care when they thought Harbaugh would have them competing for a NC every year - most thought it was more important to preserve the osu rivalry that no one outside osu/uofm cares about than worry about balance in the league. Now Harbaugh's not panning out as expected (at least not yet) and osu and psu are national contenders and suddenly we're seeing threads about how easy wisconsin has it.

Who Said michigan and Harbaugh would be competing for National titles Every Year lol with that mess he had ? Stop changing the subject to fit your hatred of Michigan you clown. Cant you just discuss thread without being such a ass all the time ?
So now it's Spartan fans who disliked like the divsional setup ? Harbaugh 's not panning out ? Who said that ? It's year 3 and he has one of the youngest teams in the ncaaa. I just think there is a easier way to get the best 2 teams I indy then this setup . It's probably not going to change but it's worth discussing

 

[Gulo Blue]

I don't give a crap about balance. I just want to see as many good games as possible. If we could trade Rutgers for Notre Dame, I'd do it.

 

[Spartanmack]

Who Said michigan and Harbaugh would be competing for National titles Every Year lol with that mess he had ? Stop changing the subject to fit your hatred of Michigan you clown. Cant you just discuss thread without being such a ass all the time ?
So now it's Spartan fans who disliked like the divsional setup ? Harbaugh 's not panning out ? Who said that ? It's year 3 and he has one of the youngest teams in the ncaaa. I just think there is a easier way to get the best 2 teams I indy then this setup . It's probably not going to change but it's worth discussing

LOL, nice try bob. first, I'm not changing the subject and second, I like michigan. I also didn't say now Spartan fans dislike the divisional setup.
I argued with a few of them on here about it back then as well. Try to keep up. Clearly, it's you who has a knee jerk reaction to disagree with everything I say - you and dubbs are cut from the same cloth.

 

[Spartanmack]

You are trying man. Called you out for your BS comment that people around here were hunky dory with the divisions, and the best you can do is nitpicking the expression. I actually remember vividly the day the divisions were made and how people thought they were horribly stacked.

Move along. Time to pick your battles on a different one.

dubbs, you make it so easy, I don't have to try. That's not nit picking, I was pointing out that you were wrong, even if you used the right expression. pay attention. And it's not all I can do, i just choose not to argue with you because of what Mark Twain said about arguing with people like you. Unfortunately, I keep forgetting that rule when it comes to bob.

 

[dubbsco]

Nah, we are just calling you out for making stuff up.

You like Michigan?? Get outta here with that BS.

Back to the ignore list with you. I tried. Same ol song and dance.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'm not digging into the root of this who said what about the divisions argument, but the way I remember it was that nobody really liked the divisions, but they were worlds better the Legends and Leaders. Getting Michigan and Ohio State in the same division was worth the imbalance problem.

 

[biggunsbob]

LOL, nice try bob. first, I'm not changing the subject and second, I like michigan. I also didn't say now Spartan fans dislike the divisional setup.
I argued with a few of them on here about it back then as well. Try to keep up. Clearly, it's you who has a knee jerk reaction to disagree with everything I say - you and dubbs are cut from the same cloth.

Keep up with what ? You lying again about posters on the board? Why would I do that? Your such a complete and utter nimcompop that it's exasperating even discussing anything with you. Stop lying like you always do. Or at least say national pundits ect. No one on this board thought Michigan was going to win national title after national title . Yeah we were excited when Jim came to Michigan and still are. It's year 3 and Michigan has one of the youngest teams in the ncaa and are 6-2. Like any fanbase we want more . Just like Spartan fans. Hopefully it will happen. Now either discuss the thread or just stop posting on the question. Do you like the divsional setup like it is or as a msu fan want something different.? Can you handle that without starting shit like you always do ?

 

[tinselwolverine]

several people thought that. I argued against it and I don't recall a single uofm fan agreeing. sbee and johnny2x and a couple other MSU posters also were totally fine with it. Go back and take a look. Tinsel's here now saying it's not a big deal. Nobody seemed to care when they thought Harbaugh would have them competing for a NC every year - most thought it was more important to preserve the osu rivalry that no one outside osu/uofm cares about than worry about balance in the league. Now Harbaugh's not panning out as expected (at least not yet) and osu and psu are national contenders and suddenly we're seeing threads about how easy wisconsin has it.

I guess this is a reasonable interpretation, of what I've been posting, although I think I've stated I'm open to a few minor adjustments.

I agree with MichChamp in post #21, it's kind of early in the game to panic and make any kind of wholesale changes.

In post #5, I enumerated various reasons that throwing the divisions out and going with the top two could create more problems than it solves.

In post #17, I express that a reasonable and fairly minor adjustment could be to flip a team in Michigan or Ohio or two with a team in Indiana or Illinois or two - the four states most in the center of the footprint.

I don't like the idea of moving any team further to the east or west of these states to the other division - maybe I'm geographically pedantic, but I don't like it.

This could help address imbalances without that much disrupting the geographical homogeny of the divisions.

In post #24, hungry is talking about flipping both Michigan and Ohio State with two western division teams - worth a thought...but...what if Nebraska gets back to its old self...which isn't far fetched given its tradition.

Then we got OSU, Michigan, Nebraska, and Wisconsin, plus throw in Iowa, instead of OSU, Michigan, Penn State and Michigan State - so does that just change the imbalance rather than fix it?

 

[lostleader]

How about they just leave it alone and UM plays better football and wins the division? Moving one team from the east to the west may help a little, but that is always subject to change. PSU, OSU, MSU, and UM are all decent to good currently. However MSU wasn't last year, UM wasn't in the not so distant past, same with PSU. And I think the majority of us hope that OSU will suck sometime soon. (maybe thats just me)

College football success changes like the wind. Maybe a team has a good decade or so, but you have to play for the ups and downs. It was like that not long ago, and history has a pattern of repeating itself.

Maybe I am wrong and Alabama, OSU, Clemson, and whoever you want to add will be great forever and us lowly UM fans will settle into a Wisconsin type role of football, where we are always decent but can't continuously run with the big dogs. I doubt that happens, but you never know.

So as Champ said, sample size is to small, so leave shit alone and just win the damn division and conference.

 

[Michchamp]

Tinsel makes some good points.

Gave me an idea. Now - AND THIS IS ONLY AN IDEA, SO NOBODY GET ALL BENT OUT OF SHAPE ABOUT IT - here's what you to in order to maximize balance between the divisions.

First, you have the teams all play eachother over the summer in one big round robin (13 games each) from May to August. Call this The "Qualfication schedule." then you rank them all from 1-14, and split the divisions between odds, and evens. then they play the regular college football season when it starts at the end of August. problem solved.

and the ADs and Big Ten can even televise and sell tickets for Qualification games and make dump trucks for of money, which they love. and fans get 13 more games to watch and bitch about.

everybody wins! except for the players, but they already get scholarships, so who gives a shit about them?

 

[hungry]

Tinsel makes some good points.

Gave me an idea. Now - AND THIS IS ONLY AN IDEA, SO NOBODY GET ALL BENT OUT OF SHAPE ABOUT IT - here's what you to in order to maximize balance between the divisions.

First, you have the teams all play eachother over the summer in one big round robin (13 games each) from May to August. Call this The "Qualfication schedule." then you rank them all from 1-14, and split the divisions between odds, and evens. then they play the regular college football season when it starts at the end of August. problem solved.

and the ADs and Big Ten can even televise and sell tickets for Qualification games and make dump trucks for of money, which they love. and fans get 13 more games to watch and bitch about.

everybody wins! except for the players, but they already get scholarships, so who gives a shit about them?

dum

 

[lostleader]

Tinsel makes some good points.

Gave me an idea. Now - AND THIS IS ONLY AN IDEA, SO NOBODY GET ALL BENT OUT OF SHAPE ABOUT IT - here's what you to in order to maximize balance between the divisions.

First, you have the teams all play eachother over the summer in one big round robin (13 games each) from May to August. Call this The "Qualfication schedule." then you rank them all from 1-14, and split the divisions between odds, and evens. then they play the regular college football season when it starts at the end of August. problem solved.

and the ADs and Big Ten can even televise and sell tickets for Qualification games and make dump trucks for of money, which they love. and fans get 13 more games to watch and bitch about.

everybody wins! except for the players, but they already get scholarships, so who gives a shit about them?

I like it. No digging up history about how great one team was in the past or has been recently, because this is totally new. Solves the problem.

 

[Spartanmack]

I guess this is a reasonable interpretation, of what I've been posting, although I think I've stated I'm open to a few minor adjustments.

I agree with MichChamp in post #21, it's kind of early in the game to panic and make any kind of wholesale changes.

In post #5, I enumerated various reasons that throwing the divisions out and going with the top two could create more problems than it solves.

In post #17, I express that a reasonable and fairly minor adjustment could be to flip a team in Michigan or Ohio or two with a team in Indiana or Illinois or two - the four states most in the center of the footprint.

I don't like the idea of moving any team further to the east or west of these states to the other division - maybe I'm geographically pedantic, but I don't like it.

This could help address imbalances without that much disrupting the geographical homogeny of the divisions.

In post #24, hungry is talking about flipping both Michigan and Ohio State with two western division teams - worth a thought...but...what if Nebraska gets back to its old self...which isn't far fetched given its tradition.

Then we got OSU, Michigan, Nebraska, and Wisconsin, plus throw in Iowa, instead of OSU, Michigan, Penn State and Michigan State - so does that just change the imbalance rather than fix it?

yeah, I just meant you thought it wasn't that big of a deal - neither strongly for leaving or changing it. And I wouldn't say I was panicking - I've been opposed to the split since the beginning. I think what we're seeing is going to be the norm, actually the norm could very well get more out of balance if Harbaugh improves his big game record.

I don't see Nebraska ever being as good as they were in the mid 90s - at least not on a consistent basis. They have no recruiting base, they're in a crap division with no historical rivals, it's harder to cheat in the B1G, etc, etc. And I also don't think Wisconsin will ever be like uofm, osu or psu. At best, they'll be a consistent upper 2nd tier B1G team. So assuming harbaugh does what he's expected to do, the B1G and NCAA continue to turn a blind eye to osu and psu is out of the woods, you'll consistently have the 3 best teams in conference in the East plus MSU will likely be on par with Wisconsin (maybe not this year, but I think we'll get back to being consistently competitive).

my suggestion would be to split up OSU and michigan and pair them osu/psu/nebraska or iowa then mich/msu/wisc or something like that then split the others as evenly as possible based on whatever criteria makes most sense. If it will keep folks from throwing tantrums over the the split, you can protect the rivalry b/w mich and osu like they did with the legends division. I'm also not opposed to scrapping the divisions, maybe establishing 1 or 2 protected rivalries per team like the olden days if necessary then letting the 2 teams with the best records play for the title. There would likely be some bizarre tie-breakers and years where a lesser team got a break from their schedule but that's the case now, especially for the teams in the west that get soft inter-division schedules.

 

[Spartanmack]

Tinsel makes some good points.

Gave me an idea. Now - AND THIS IS ONLY AN IDEA, SO NOBODY GET ALL BENT OUT OF SHAPE ABOUT IT - here's what you to in order to maximize balance between the divisions.

First, you have the teams all play eachother over the summer in one big round robin (13 games each) from May to August. Call this The "Qualfication schedule." then you rank them all from 1-14, and split the divisions between odds, and evens. then they play the regular college football season when it starts at the end of August. problem solved.

and the ADs and Big Ten can even televise and sell tickets for Qualification games and make dump trucks for of money, which they love. and fans get 13 more games to watch and bitch about.

everybody wins! except for the players, but they already get scholarships, so who gives a shit about them?

only one problem, the summer isn't long enough for a 13 game schedule.

 

[Spartanmack]

How about they just leave it alone and UM plays better football and wins the division? Moving one team from the east to the west may help a little, but that is always subject to change. PSU, OSU, MSU, and UM are all decent to good currently. However MSU wasn't last year, UM wasn't in the not so distant past, same with PSU. And I think the majority of us hope that OSU will suck sometime soon. (maybe thats just me)

College football success changes like the wind. Maybe a team has a good decade or so, but you have to play for the ups and downs. It was like that not long ago, and history has a pattern of repeating itself.

Maybe I am wrong and Alabama, OSU, Clemson, and whoever you want to add will be great forever and us lowly UM fans will settle into a Wisconsin type role of football, where we are always decent but can't continuously run with the big dogs. I doubt that happens, but you never know.

So as Champ said, sample size is to small, so leave shit alone and just win the damn division and conference.

i see your point but it's only kind of bad for uofm, osu, psu and a little worse for msu. but is it fair to IU when they field their best team in 20 years (not saying they have this year, but if/when they do) and Iowa or Purdue aren't as good in that same year, yet they have a much better chance of making it to the conference championship than IU?

Sure, I'm primarily concerned with MSU but there are 3 teams that are getting f'd year in and year out.

 

[tinselwolverine]

yeah, I just meant you thought it wasn't that big of a deal - neither strongly for leaving or changing it. And I wouldn't say I was panicking - I've been opposed to the split since the beginning. I think what we're seeing is going to be the norm, actually the norm could very well get more out of balance if Harbaugh improves his big game record.

No, you're not panicking. Panicking is thinking about throwing out the geographic divisions altogether, and going with the "top two," which again, could create more problems than it solves.

I read one post - I forget who posted it, and it doesn't really matter - that all the conferences should throw out their divisional structures and just also go with the top two...well...

Shouldn't that actually be up to those conferences themselves?

More problematic is the current playoff structure, and that could fixed with something so simple and that makes too much sense that it likely will never be adopted.

Go to an eight team play off. The five conference champions of the power five divisions all qualify - period. Three at large teams then qualify. I'd rather have a BCS like decider for the final three qualifiers - the formula is established at the beginning of the season and adhered to...that's why I like it...throw out subjectivity of the committee - but either way.

Using the same BCS type formula (or the stupid committee), the three highest ranked conference champions host the three at large qualifiers in real actual home games at home, with the highest ranked conference champion hosting the lowest ranked at large qualifier, and so forth. The fourth and fifth ranked conference champions play with the fourth ranked host.

And then we go to the four team playoff utilizing the bowl system, exactly the way it is.