buyers or sellers?

[johnny2x2x]

I think the Tigers will look at 3 way deals if we are sellers. Trade Price, Cespedas, and Soria to big spending contenders who will send prospects to a 3rd team in total rebuild mode who then ship a major league player or two to the Tigers, say a #3 starter, and a top reliever, and maybe a corner outfielder. And ideally have the players we get be unde contract for 2 or more seasons.

I am of the thought that 10-4 after the break and before the deadline and we buy, anything 8-6 or worse and we sell. Doubt we stand pat.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I just have a different mentality than you. I am not a fan of players...I am a Tigers fan. If I thought that trading one of the best players on the team would make the team better I would be 100% for the trade. I root for the Tigers...the team!

Don't get me wrong. I do like some of the players. I really liked Max. I love watching Miggy hit. I REALLY liked JV when he was dominating the AL. I am starting to really like Iggy in the field. Growing up I liked Tram, Lou, Gibby, Jack & LP. But I guess I have too much of a business outlook on sports. Players come and go but the team comes first.

But there are times when trading a player is the worse thing you can do. You say retrospect, but then you need to look at what Kaline brought besides his great hitting and defense. In retrospect there is not one player in my lifetime who has meant more to an organization.

Btw, I read this when I was kid and every since then I'm always proud that Willie was a favorite:

In 1970 Kaline was nearly a victim of a freak accident on the baseball field. On May 30, 1970, in a game at Milwaukee's County Stadium, Kaline collided with center fielder Jim Northrup as they both pursued a flyball. Kaline fell to the warning track injured. Alertly, left fielder Willie Horton rushed over and quickly recognized that Kaline had swallowed his own tongue and was turning blue. Horton reached in cleared Kaline's airway, saving his life.

 

[kalinecountry]

But there are times when trading a player is the worse thing you can do. You say retrospect, but then you need to look at what Kaline brought besides his great hitting and defense. In retrospect there is not one player in my lifetime who has meant more to an organization.

Btw, I read this when I was kid and every since then I'm always proud that Willie was a favorite:

In 1970 Kaline was nearly a victim of a freak accident on the baseball field. On May 30, 1970, in a game at Milwaukee's County Stadium, Kaline collided with center fielder Jim Northrup as they both pursued a flyball. Kaline fell to the warning track injured. Alertly, left fielder Willie Horton rushed over and quickly recognized that Kaline had swallowed his own tongue and was turning blue. Horton reached in cleared Kaline's airway, saving his life.

Post of the day.

let me add again that the Tigers had the best catcher in the American League.
Not only do you piss the shit out of the fan base you destroy the clubhouse.

I have always said that I will take Kaline over outfielder that played in his era not nmes Aaron Mantle or Mays. Kaline over Clemente and Yaz; same great defense, plus Kaline was the same magician in centerfield, had more power, better obp/plate discipline, yaz had 2 great seasons, a few good ones, Kaline was consistently great year in and year out. Crunch the numbers for Kaline to play the same games/atbats as yaz and he beats him in every statistical numbers except doubles and walks.
Kaline's only weakness as a player was his inability to stay healthy, like the Mick.

 

[byco42]

why? Trading Kaline at the end of his career for Perez and Bench? In hindsight you wouldn't do that?

1966 is NOT the END of Kaline's career. And like the Reds would have traded Perez and Bench for Kaline from 1970 on!

Face it: You're wrong on this one. On Kaline and Cabrera.

 

[kalinecountry]

you never know. The 49ers traded Joe Montana who many consider the best player in the history of the NFL. As far as status in a sport, superior to AK.

I think in my scenario, having Johnny Bench as a Tiger for 20 years (arguably the best catcher in the past 50 years) wouldn't make people forget AK but most fans would look at Tigers management and think they made a good choice.

Now, these are just hypothetical scenarios...just for fun and conversation.

Again, WTF are you talking about having Bench for 20 years??
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/benchjo01.shtml
1967 to 1983 17 years, year 1 cup of coffee, and last 3 or 4 he was toast.
Done at age 35.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kalinal01.shtml
Kaline played until 1974.

Your questions and thoughts on all this 'are not' fun and conversation.

idk who you learned your business acumen from but you are an island unto yourself on this and most other things with your 'GM's mind".
Matt Millen would have done these types of trades and we all know how we feel about him.

 

[af1991]

Sell. Price and sell high on JD. VMart, Cespedes, Kinsler, Soria et al to plug parts and pieces....especially in the bullpen.

0 Tiger prospects in the top 50 (July 2015). 1 Tiger prospect in the top 100 (January 2015). It's time to get some top tier, young, affordable talent.

http://espn.go.com/blog/keith-law/insider/post?id=4096

http://espn.go.com/mlb/insider/stor...5-including-kris-bryant-byron-buxton-more-mlb

 

[swami45]

It would be pretty dumb to trade JD when he is making peanuts. Vmart is untradable, Kinsler can block a trade.

If you want to blow the team up and hope we can compete again in 5 years its probably already too late for that.

Best way to get top 100 prospects is to draft and develope them, something the tigers suck at.

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[stonecold2136]

Hill and Moya have virtually no value to any team right now. Hill is a complete flop so far in his 2nd season after being a 1st Round pick and Moya hits home runs and nothing else.

I was just throwing a few random names out there for example.

I think we get Kasmir. His name keeps coming up.

 

[swami45]

I was just throwing a few random names out there for example.

I think we get Kasmir. His name keeps coming up.

He would probably cost all three names you mentioned. Thats if Oakland even wants them. At least 3 of thier top 10 prospects, and he is only a rental

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[lonesometiger]

What everone needs to look at. Is what the Tigers need to improve.

Not in any order

A 3rd base man that can hit with some power!
At least 2 Starters that can get into the 6th inning or better. Might need 3?
A whole bunch of BULL Pen guys. 3 to 4 maybe 5!
A Closer!!! A good team needs a reliever that can close a 4th game in a row when the Closer has pitched 3 games in a row.
a Left Fielder.
So That's between 8 and 11 players for net season. I don't think what we have to offer will net that much. What's on the farm not going to come close to covering that at all. Tigers will have to be in the FA market again heavy again and that costs.
More or less the Tigers are between the Rock and hard spot.
Buy now digs deeper into the money pit.
A fact ever one better get used to competing against younger and cheaper teams will cost big bucks.
I do not see rebuild over night and Verlander,Cabrera,V-Mart,Kinsler and Sanchez, R not going to et younger or cheaper.
Tigers got to buy to see a championship in Mr I foreseeable future. I really do not see a way out this nightmare. There is a saying the light at the end of the tunnel could be the Train! Hold on the ride could get ruff.

 

[Mitchrapp]

What everone needs to look at. Is what the Tigers need to improve.

Not in any order

A 3rd base man that can hit with some power!
At least 2 Starters that can get into the 6th inning or better. Might need 3?
A whole bunch of BULL Pen guys. 3 to 4 maybe 5!
A Closer!!! A good team needs a reliever that can close a 4th game in a row when the Closer has pitched 3 games in a row.
a Left Fielder.
So That's between 8 and 11 players for net season. I don't think what we have to offer will net that much. What's on the farm not going to come close to covering that at all. Tigers will have to be in the FA market again heavy again and that costs.
More or less the Tigers are between the Rock and hard spot.
Buy now digs deeper into the money pit.
A fact ever one better get used to competing against younger and cheaper teams will cost big bucks.
I do not see rebuild over night and Verlander,Cabrera,V-Mart,Kinsler and Sanchez, R not going to et younger or cheaper.
Tigers got to buy to see a championship in Mr I foreseeable future. I really do not see a way out this nightmare. There is a saying the light at the end of the tunnel could be the Train! Hold on the ride could get ruff.

No one builds overnight..If they decide to sell it'd be a few years. Though maybe we can have a surprise year like we had in 2006.

 

[manchild98]

You also have to figure out a way to still be competitive to the point of being in the playoff hunt next year or you'll piss Miggy off. I don't see us doing anything close to a complete rebuild right now...although I'm not opposed to that but I don't think Mr. I is going to do that.

 

[biggunsbob]

Career Away

N. Cash .267 BAVG .366 OBP .463 SLG .829 OPS 8.5 PA/BB 24.6 PA/HR

T. Perez .275 BAVG .335 OBP .452 SLG .777 OPS 14.2 PA/BB 27.7 PA/HR


Career RISP

N. Cash 2074 PA 687 RBI 3.0 PA/RBI .403 OBP .448 SLG .851 OPS

T. Perez 3408 PA 1237 RBI 2.8 PA/RBI .364 OBP .470 SLG .834 OPS


Early in his career, Perez played a lot of 3B. In fact, for his career, roughly 30% of his PAs came at 3B.

Nice catch I had forgotten TP played third...

 

[biggunsbob]

Again I am super torn between buying and selling because lets face it with out luck any top prospect we get just may not pan out. Plus if its a pitcher Jones will probably ruin him anyway.. If we can get a super haul for YC, Price and Soria I say do it if we fall 5 games back of the WC. But if we can pull off a nice winning streak after the all-star break maybe we go for it again.. I guess i just do not know the right answer..

 

[manchild98]

So the only guys I probably wouldn't look to get rid of right now are Miggy, VMart, Iggy, JD, Gose, McCann and Alex Wilson. Everyone else can be packaged up.

 

[Mitchrapp]

So the only guys I probably wouldn't look to get rid of right now are Miggy, VMart, Iggy, JD, Gose, McCann and Alex Wilson. Everyone else can be packaged up.

I think if we're going to be sellers this is time to sell Victor. In fact the only one's I'd keep would be Miggy, for obvious reasons, and Iggy because of youth and being a defensive wiz. Plus he's a fine hitter.

 

[stonecold2136]

I think if we're going to be sellers this is time to sell Victor. In fact the only one's I'd keep would be Miggy, for obvious reasons, and Iggy because of youth and being a defensive wiz. Plus he's a fine hitter.

I doubt anyone will take on Victor's contract. He is also the leader of the clubhouse

 

[stonecold2136]

After the way Verlander pitched today I feel we are now sellers. Cespedes is the Only player I would trade.

Price will get us a compensary pick which will be a better player than what teams would be willing to give up.

 

[swami45]

After the way Verlander pitched today I feel we are now sellers. Cespedes is the Only player I would trade.

Price will get us a compensary pick which will be a better player than what teams would be willing to give up.

I greatly disagree, id rather take a top 50 prospect along with a couple other pieces than a late round pick you might not see for 4 or 5 years

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[kalinecountry]

This does not bode well for the remainder of July or rest of the season.
They should be in sell mode, but might not thinking they only need another legitimate #2 or #3 starter to make the wild card, along with a reliever who has had success.
Of course the problem there is do they have enough in the minors. Probably not.

If you look at the offense, despite the league leading numbers or close to the top in many offensive categoriesit is inconsistent. They played over their heads for a short time after Miggy's DL, and reality has set in. Even with that, they are killing themselves with so many GIDP's that take them out of big innings.
The hack attack mode sucks, rarely do we see anyone outside of Victor grind out at bats, how many games has an average or sucky opposing pitcher gone into the 7th or 8th innings with a pitch count averaging 10 or 11 pitches per inning?
The philosophy should change, but probably won't.

There are many players on the roster who could be moved who are FA's end of the year, and some players that some of us would like to see moved but due to large contracts or are cost controlled for some years won't be.

I just hope that whatever moves they make work out, and then we see what happens with Ausmus, the coaching staff, and Dombrowski.