Cabrera projected for 101 RBIs

[kingofdetroit57]

Average plate appearances for each batting spot by league in 2009:

NL:

1st - 763
2nd - 746
3rd - 728
4th - 711
5th - 696
6th - 681
7th - 662
8th - 643
9th - 622

AL:

1st - 762
2nd - 743
3rd - 725
4th - 709
5th - 693
6th - 675
7th - 657
8th - 638
9th - 618

These numbers might not seem like much, but if you bump Miggy and VMart up to 3 and 4 in whatever order you want, they get 22 more at-bats a year and Leyland's #3 hitter du jour gets at least that many less. It gets even more powerful when you start moving up Peralta and Avila as well.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Mitch[/color]]Looking at that I would love getting aj 150 at bats less in a season by hitting him 9th.

No kidding. That's why we need to sign Reyes in the offseason and make him our new leadoff hitter. AJ getting 150 fewer at bats probably means he gets 43 fewer Ks a year. Tell me that wouldn't make a big difference.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Yeah I'm hoping we get a new lead off hitter. I like aj but batting him 9 would be huge.

 

[tomdalton22]

Average plate appearances for each batting spot by league in 2009:

NL:

1st - 763
2nd - 746
3rd - 728
4th - 711
5th - 696
6th - 681
7th - 662
8th - 643
9th - 622

AL:

1st - 762
2nd - 743
3rd - 725
4th - 709
5th - 693
6th - 675
7th - 657
8th - 638
9th - 618

These numbers might not seem like much, but if you bump Miggy and VMart up to 3 and 4 in whatever order you want, they get 22 more at-bats a year and Leyland's #3 hitter du jour gets at least that many less. It gets even more powerful when you start moving up Peralta and Avila as well.

with that logic you bat Miggy 1st and V-Mart 2nd

 

[kingofdetroit57]

These numbers might not seem like much, but if you bump Miggy and VMart up to 3 and 4 in whatever order you want, they get 22 more at-bats a year and Leyland's #3 hitter du jour gets at least that many less. It gets even more powerful when you start moving up Peralta and Avila as well.

with that logic you bat Miggy 1st and V-Mart 2nd

Until you consider speed and opportunity to drive in runs. You want a speedy high OBP guy at #1 and a guy who puts a lot of balls in play at #2. #3 is your best overall hitter, then #4 is typically a good hitter with power. With what we've got, I'd probably go Boesch (RF), Peralta (SS), Cabrera (1B), VMart (DH), Avila (C), Young (LF), Betemit (3B), Santiago (2B), Jackson (CF).

 

[tomdalton22]

with that logic you bat Miggy 1st and V-Mart 2nd

Until you consider speed and opportunity to drive in runs. You want a speedy high OBP guy at #1 and a guy who puts a lot of balls in play at #2. #3 is your best overall hitter, then #4 is typically a good hitter with power. With what we've got, I'd probably go Boesch (RF), Peralta (SS), Cabrera (1B), VMart (DH), Avila (C), Young (LF), Betemit (3B), Santiago (2B), Jackson (CF).

Good hitter with power at 4 would be Miggy.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Until you consider speed and opportunity to drive in runs. You want a speedy high OBP guy at #1 and a guy who puts a lot of balls in play at #2. #3 is your best overall hitter, then #4 is typically a good hitter with power. With what we've got, I'd probably go Boesch (RF), Peralta (SS), Cabrera (1B), VMart (DH), Avila (C), Young (LF), Betemit (3B), Santiago (2B), Jackson (CF).

Good hitter with power at 4 would be Miggy.

You fill the #3 hole first and that's done with your best overall hitter, who also happens to be Miggy. Regardless though, Miggy and VMart should be #3 and #4 in whatever order you prefer.

 

[tomdalton22]

Good hitter with power at 4 would be Miggy.

You fill the #3 hole first and that's done with your best overall hitter, who also happens to be Miggy. Regardless though, Miggy and VMart should be #3 and #4 in whatever order you prefer.

If it has to be those two in the 3 & 4 holes I would put V-Mart then Miggy. However, I actually like having Miggy 4 and V-Mart 5th.

 

[Thumb]

Because the 4th spot in the lineup is more important than the 3rd.

They call it cleanup for a reason.

And it's not like he would get that many more PA's batting 1 spot higher.

Your response makes no sense. If 4th is the most important, how come Ruth, Williams, Mantle, Aaron, Bonds, and Pujols regularly hit third?

Your argument is 6 guys that hit 3rd sometimes?

You put your power guy 4th.

The idea is he is the guy who gets the 3 guys in front of him in, our problem is we don't put the right guys 1-2-3, not that he should hit 3rd.

But I guess it does not matter what either of us say, because he bats 4th, and will probably always bat 4th, just like the majority of power hitters do.

 

[mjsb2]

Out of the first 4 spots in the lineup, the number 3 hitter is the least important.

Yes, lets go ahead and put our best hitter in the least important spot in the lineup.

 

[jimrice]

Good hitter with power at 4 would be Miggy.

You fill the #3 hole first and that's done with your best overall hitter, who also happens to be Miggy. Regardless though, Miggy and VMart should be #3 and #4 in whatever order you prefer.

Things change.

Studies have determined that more base runners are on for the 4th and the 5th place hitters. Those are the most important spots and the Tiger's have the right guys in the right spots.

The problem is the first part of the order not getting on base. Ideally, two high on base guys should be at 1-2.

 

[Thumb]

You fill the #3 hole first and that's done with your best overall hitter, who also happens to be Miggy. Regardless though, Miggy and VMart should be #3 and #4 in whatever order you prefer.

Things change.

Studies have determined that more base runners are on for the 4th and the 5th place hitters. Those are the most important spots and the Tiger's have the right guys in the right spots.

The problem is the first part of the order not getting on base. Ideally, two high on base guys should be at 1-2.

Wow, we agree on something!

 

[mhughes0021]

Ordonez hitting ahead of Cabrera for most of the season killed him too. Boesch was fine at 3 but the 2 and 1 hitters have been a problem all year which contributed to his low RBI #s. I swear it feels like Cabrera is always leading off an inning with obviously no one on base.

 

[jh1spartanfan]

Here's my ideal line-up:
1. Boesch- decent OBP and speed
2. Peralta- good OBP
3. Avila- great OBP, why is this guy not in front of Cabrera?
4. Cabrera- drive in runs, great OBP for the 5/6 to drive him in
5. Martinez- protect Cabrera, great with RISP
6. Young- good run producer
7. Betemit- decent hitter
8. Jackson- good speed, can steal a lot more bases down here, and less pressure
9. Santiago- decent speed, can bunt people over to give oppurtunities to Boesch/Peralta

 

[Rebbiv]

Averages
2011
#3 = .810 OPS
#4 = .785 OPS

2010
# 3 = .820 OPS
# 4 = .806 OPS

2009
# 3 = .835 OPS
# 4 = .824 OPS


2011 #3 Hitters (200 PA Min)

J. Bautista 1.096 OPS
J. Votto .994 OPS
R. Braun .989 OPS
A. Gonzalez .986 OPS
B. Boesch .955 OPS
A. Ramirez .933 OPS
J. Upton .920 OPS
T. Helton .900 OPS
A. Pujols .899 OPS
B. Butler .896 OPS
A. McCutchen .891 OPS
M. Teixeira .876 OPS
J. Hamilton .876 OPS
C. Beltran .862 OPS
H. Pence .851 OPS
E. Longoria .836 OPS
C. Gonzalez .833 OPS
R. Zimmerman .825 OPS
D. Ackley .820 OPS
A. Gordon .818 OPS
P. Sandoval .810 OPS
C. Headley .810 OPS

C. Jones .795 OPS
A. Ethier .787 OPS
C. Utley .785 OPS

A. Jones .748 OPS
B. Abreu .740 OPS
J. Werth .731 OPS
D. Wright .729 OPS
S. Choo .729 OPS
J. Mauer .721 OPS
L. Morrison .706 OPS
A. Cabrera .702 OPS

M. Ordonez .548 OPS


2011 MLB OPS Rankings

Team = 5

#1 = 23
#2 = 18
#3 = 21
#4 = 1
#5 = 14
#6 = 2
#7 = 12
#8 = 3
#9 = 11 (all AL teams above)

My order if given the chance.

1 = Avila
2 = V. Martinez
3 = Cabrera
4 = Boesch
5 = Peralta
6 = Betemit
7 = D. Young
8 = Raburn
9 = Jackson

 

[hellifino]

Out of the first 4 spots in the lineup, the number 3 hitter is the least important.

Yes, lets go ahead and put our best hitter in the least important spot in the lineup.

the 3 hitter is the least important. lol are you related to Leyland?

Adrian Gonzalez hits 3rd
Granderson hits 3rd
Pujols hits 3rd
Votto hits 3rd
Mauer hits 3rd
Konerko hits 3rd
Sandoval hits 3rd
Kemp hits 3rd
Bautista hits 3rd
A.Cabrera hits 3rd
Longoria hits 3rd
Hamilton hits 3rd
C Conzalez hits 3rd
J. Upton hits 3rd
Braun hits 3rd

and drum roll please.. Al Kaline hit 3rd

etc....

 

[tomdalton22]

Averages
2011
#3 = .810 OPS
#4 = .785 OPS

2010
# 3 = .820 OPS
# 4 = .806 OPS

2009
# 3 = .835 OPS
# 4 = .824 OPS


2011 #3 Hitters (200 PA Min)

J. Bautista 1.096 OPS
J. Votto .994 OPS
R. Braun .989 OPS
A. Gonzalez .986 OPS
B. Boesch .955 OPS
A. Ramirez .933 OPS
J. Upton .920 OPS
T. Helton .900 OPS
A. Pujols .899 OPS
B. Butler .896 OPS
A. McCutchen .891 OPS
M. Teixeira .876 OPS
J. Hamilton .876 OPS
C. Beltran .862 OPS
H. Pence .851 OPS
E. Longoria .836 OPS
C. Gonzalez .833 OPS
R. Zimmerman .825 OPS
D. Ackley .820 OPS
A. Gordon .818 OPS
P. Sandoval .810 OPS
C. Headley .810 OPS

C. Jones .795 OPS
A. Ethier .787 OPS
C. Utley .785 OPS

A. Jones .748 OPS
B. Abreu .740 OPS
J. Werth .731 OPS
D. Wright .729 OPS
S. Choo .729 OPS
J. Mauer .721 OPS
L. Morrison .706 OPS
A. Cabrera .702 OPS

M. Ordonez .548 OPS


2011 MLB OPS Rankings

Team = 5

#1 = 23
#2 = 18
#3 = 21
#4 = 1
#5 = 14
#6 = 2
#7 = 12
#8 = 3
#9 = 11 (all AL teams above)

My order if given the chance.

1 = Avila
2 = V. Martinez
3 = Cabrera
4 = Boesch
5 = Peralta
6 = Betemit
7 = D. Young
8 = Raburn
9 = Jackson

I don't like Avilia leading off. I don't think it helps much and I like him behind VMart and Miggy. I have no problem with Jackson leading off with his speed. He is the only player on the team that I have confidence in scoring from first on a double.

 

[jimrice]

Out of the first 4 spots in the lineup, the number 3 hitter is the least important.

Yes, lets go ahead and put our best hitter in the least important spot in the lineup.

the 3 hitter is the least important. lol are you related to Leyland?

Adrian Gonzalez hits 3rd
Granderson hits 3rd
Pujols hits 3rd
Votto hits 3rd
Mauer hits 3rd
Konerko hits 3rd
Sandoval hits 3rd
Kemp hits 3rd
Bautista hits 3rd
A.Cabrera hits 3rd
Longoria hits 3rd
Hamilton hits 3rd
C Conzalez hits 3rd
J. Upton hits 3rd
Braun hits 3rd

and drum roll please.. Al Kaline hit 3rd

etc....

You're basically closing your mind to new ideas. The computer has opened up a lot of info for baseball fans, and especially, baseball managers if they choose to access it. Knowledge that wasn't available in Kaline's day.

The conventional wisdom has been to bat your best guy third, but it's not correct. Google some of the studies and you'll find that a guy like Cabrera gets more opportunities in the clean up spot than he would in the third spot.

The current examples you post just reinforces the idea that baseball is slow to change, and these old school managers can't learn. Props to Jim on this one, he's getting it right.

This is interesting, if you care to read it.....

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/story/2006/2/19/192135/078

 

[hellifino]

the 3 hitter is the least important. lol are you related to Leyland?

Adrian Gonzalez hits 3rd
Granderson hits 3rd
Pujols hits 3rd
Votto hits 3rd
Mauer hits 3rd
Konerko hits 3rd
Sandoval hits 3rd
Kemp hits 3rd
Bautista hits 3rd
A.Cabrera hits 3rd
Longoria hits 3rd
Hamilton hits 3rd
C Conzalez hits 3rd
J. Upton hits 3rd
Braun hits 3rd

and drum roll please.. Al Kaline hit 3rd

etc....

You're basically closing your mind to new ideas. The computer has opened up a lot of info for baseball fans, and especially, baseball managers if they choose to access it. Knowledge that wasn't available in Kaline's day.

The conventional wisdom has been to bat your best guy third, but it's not correct. Google some of the studies and you'll find that a guy like Cabrera gets more opportunities in the clean up spot than he would in the third spot.

The current examples you post just reinforces the idea that baseball is slow to change, and these old school managers can't learn. Props to Jim on this one, he's getting it right.

This is interesting, if you care to read it.....

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/story/2006/2/19/192135/078

so if computers were around when Kaline played, he would have hit 6th or 7th.

common sense >>> conventional wisdom

 

[jimrice]

So, in 4 minutes you read that post and the article in the link?

Ignorance is bliss.