Castellanos playing for Dirks ENTIRE job.

[tomdalton22]

Berry and Boesch were already expendable. It isn't like the Tiger hopes rests on these two.

And while Kobernus is having a good ST until now, that does not detract from him being a marginal player at best. IMO, Kobernus is battling D. Kelly and Worth for the last roster spot. Berry won't make the roster without an injury to someone else.

I don't know much about Kobernus....is he strictly an outfielder or more of a utility player?

 

[Mitchrapp]

I know guys like Kelly and Worth can play several positions but they get a spot of Berry who at least did something last season? Kelly .186, Worth .216, yeah keep these two guys ;-) Berry should make the team over both these guys. And not to mention .206 Ramon Santiago. And now Kobernus. How many utility guys we want? Granted not all of them are coming North but I'm getting sick of them.

 

[tomdalton22]

I know guys like Kelly and Worth can play several positions but they get a spot of Berry who at least did something last season? Kelly .186, Worth .216, yeah keep these two guys ;-) Berry should make the team over both these guys. And not to mention .206 Ramon Santiago. And now Kobernus. How many utility guys we want? Granted not all of them are coming North but I'm getting sick of them.

Berry is only an OF. At least a guy like Kelly can play infield and OF positions which is an asset. If the Tigers are going to carry an extra OF I would prefer Berry....just because of his speed as a pinch runner.

 

[byco42]

I don't know much about Kobernus....is he strictly an outfielder or more of a utility player?

INF in the minors. Tigers apparently converting him to OF.

 

[tomdalton22]

INF in the minors. Tigers apparently converting him to OF.

well that's good. IF he makes the team he can play both IF and OF.

 

[Thumb]

I know guys like Kelly and Worth can play several positions but they get a spot of Berry who at least did something last season? Kelly .186, Worth .216, yeah keep these two guys ;-) Berry should make the team over both these guys. And not to mention .206 Ramon Santiago. And now Kobernus. How many utility guys we want? Granted not all of them are coming North but I'm getting sick of them.

You're too hung up on Berry's stolen bases, which was all he did last year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=berryqu01&year=&t=b#month

Aside from his unsustainable BAbip in the first 25 games or so, he was every bit as bad at the plate as Boesch, Kelly, Raburn, Santiago, Worth, etc., and leading the league in clapping won't get him on the team.

He's a low walk/high strikeout guy, and the fact he's a good base stealer is moot if he wont be on base much. Ajax does not steal a lot but is 10x as valuable as Berry.

 

[tomdalton22]

You're too hung up on Berry's stolen bases, which was all he did last year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=berryqu01&year=&t=b#month

Aside from his unsustainable BAbip in the first 25 games or so, he was every bit as bad at the plate as Boesch, Kelly, Raburn, Santiago, Worth, etc., and leading the league in clapping won't get him on the team.

He's a low walk/high strikeout guy, and the fact he's a good base stealer is moot if he wont be on base much. Ajax does not steal a lot but is 10x as valuable as Berry.

To be fair you shouldn't compare Berry to A-Jax. Berry's role on this team would be a 4th OF, pinch runner or defensive replacement. AJ is the starting CF. I think you need to compare a guy like Berry to BB. I think Berry is a better fit for the 4th OF spot than BB.

 

[Thumb]

To be fair you shouldn't compare Berry to A-Jax. Berry's role on this team would be a 4th OF, pinch runner or defensive replacement. AJ is the starting CF. I think you need to compare a guy like Berry to BB. I think Berry is a better fit for the 4th OF spot than BB.

Depends on offense. Fact is both are lefties, and we need a right hander to platoon with Dirks. PR's are overrated. Berry is better on defense, but not as good as Dirks. If Boesch starts hitting again, I'd expect someone to make a trade offer on him, I can't see anyone doing the same for Berry.

All in all Berry is not the best option for a 4th outfielder, if it comes down to it, a guy like Worth/Koburnus simply have more overall value than being able to be used as a pinch runner.

EDIT: Also my Berry/ Ajax comparison was fair, because it was based on a speedy guy stealing bases, which are nice to have but highly overrated. Nobody can knock Ajax's baserunning simply because he does not steal every time he's on base.

 

[tomdalton22]

Depends on offense. Fact is both are lefties, and we need a right hander to platoon with Dirks. PR's are overrated. Berry is better on defense, but not as good as Dirks. If Boesch starts hitting again, I'd expect someone to make a trade offer on him, I can't see anyone doing the same for Berry.

All in all Berry is not the best option for a 4th outfielder, if it comes down to it, a guy like Worth/Koburnus simply have more overall value than being able to be used as a pinch runner.

EDIT: Also my Berry/ Ajax comparison was fair, because it was based on a speedy guy stealing bases, which are nice to have but highly overrated. Nobody can knock Ajax's baserunning simply because he does not steal every time he's on base.

I don't have any idea what kind of player Koburn is. From what I understand he was an IF that is learning the OF. Not the best fit for the 4th OF IMO. However, he could add value as a utility player if he can play all 7 positions (4 IF and 3 OF). Worth isn't an outfielder so he shouldn't be in the discussion for the 4th OF spot.

 

[Rebbiv]

I don't know much about Kobernus....is he strictly an outfielder or more of a utility player?

He is a below average offensive 2B, that is speedy and can play defense.

Of the 13 positional positions, 8 are locks:

C- Avila
1B - Fielder
2B - Infante
SS- Peralta
3B - Cabrera
CF - Jackson
RF - Hunter
DH - Martinez

Regardless of anything else, all positions will have a backup. Martinez will never catch, but he probably will play 1B some. So, Pena is the backup C. That is 9.

We need a viable SS backup. We are talking Santiago and Worth here, with the edge going to Santiago base on invested cost. That is 10.

LF = Most likely Dirks and right now, I see Boesch as making it as a 4th OFer. (12)

That leaves us with covering 3B and 2B. Peralta and Infante have both played 3B. Santiago, Worth and Kelly all have played both positions. Kobernus just has 2B experience.

Add the fact that the last spot most likely goes to a righthander (assuming Dirks and Boesch both make the team), and that leaves a choice between Kobernus and Worth. It certainly does not mean Berry. Santiago cannot be the back up for 2B, SS and 3B. There has to be at least one other bench player that can play one of those positions.

I will not make an argument for Kelly, but he has been our emergency catcher the past few years, even with Inge on the team. Without him, I wonder who it would be? Certainly not Berry.

 

[tomdalton22]

He is a below average offensive 2B, that is speedy and can play defense.

Of the 13 positional positions, 8 are locks:

C- Avila
1B - Fielder
2B - Infante
SS- Peralta
3B - Cabrera
CF - Jackson
RF - Hunter
DH - Martinez

Regardless of anything else, all positions will have a backup. Martinez will never catch, but he probably will play 1B some. So, Pena is the backup C. That is 9.

We need a viable SS backup. We are talking Santiago and Worth here, with the edge going to Santiago base on invested cost. That is 10.

LF = Most likely Dirks and right now, I see Boesch as making it as a 4th OFer. (12)

That leaves us with covering 3B and 2B. Peralta and Infante have both played 3B. Santiago, Worth and Kelly all have played both positions. Kobernus just has 2B experience.

Add the fact that the last spot most likely goes to a righthander (assuming Dirks and Boesch both make the team), and that leaves a choice between Kobernus and Worth. It certainly does not mean Berry. Santiago cannot be the back up for 2B, SS and 3B. There has to be at least one other bench player that can play one of those positions.

I will not make an argument for Kelly, but he has been our emergency catcher the past few years, even with Inge on the team. Without him, I wonder who it would be? Certainly not Berry.

I don't see any reason that they would make Boesch the 4th OF. He has a some potential but that's about it. I think he is terrible and brings nothing to the table except a little pop in his bat. He has to have some options left...I say send him to Toledo!

 

[byco42]

I hope Berry's last plate appearance as a Tiger was in last year's WS.

 

[Thumb]

I don't have any idea what kind of player Koburn is. From what I understand he was an IF that is learning the OF. Not the best fit for the 4th OF IMO. However, he could add value as a utility player if he can play all 7 positions (4 IF and 3 OF). Worth isn't an outfielder so he shouldn't be in the discussion for the 4th OF spot.

And Yet Leyland, the guy in charge, says Worth will play some in the OF.

And let's not forget Castellanos was not an OF either (neither was Carlos Guillen, Don Kelly, Bandon Inge, etc), your point is pointless.

It comes down to we can have 12/13 position players, and in the end it's going to matter who has more overall value, the 4th outfielder is essentially a utility man anyways.

 

[Thumb]

I don't see any reason that they would make Boesch the 4th OF. He has a some potential but that's about it. I think he is terrible and brings nothing to the table except a little pop in his bat. He has to have some options left...I say send him to Toledo!

Boesch, if he hits like he has (forgetting last season) has the single most hustle of any Tiger I can remember. But the fact is that little pop in his bat is a big thing, coupled with the fact is pretty damn fast for a big guy, if he gets his swing/head straightened out, he would be a doubles machine.

I would take Boesch over Berry 100 times out of 100. Though I still think at some point someone will make a move on him and he'll be traded.

 

[tomdalton22]

And Yet Leyland, the guy in charge, says Worth will play some in the OF.

And let's not forget Castellanos was not an OF either (neither was Carlos Guillen, Don Kelly, Bandon Inge, etc), your point is pointless.

It comes down to we can have 12/13 position players, and in the end it's going to matter who has more overall value, the 4th outfielder is essentially a utility man anyways.

"Play some outfield" doesn't mean he is in the running for the 4th OF position. As far a Castellanos...they are teaching him to be a full time OF. As far as Guillen, Kelly and Inge...none of those guys worked out too well. I would prefer they have a 4th OF that is acutally an outfielder.

 

[Thumb]

You're assuming there is a roster spot specifically called 4th OF, rather then just bench players who can play in the OF.

There are 3 OF positions, everyone else who plays there is bench/backup.

 

[tomdalton22]

You're assuming there is a roster spot specifically called 4th OF, rather then just bench players who can play in the OF.

There are 3 OF positions, everyone else who plays there is bench/backup.

I think that the Tigers are going to need a guy that is more than a "back up" given Dirks hasn't proven he can stay on the field and Hunter's age. Just my opinion but I think this team needs a guy that can actually play. I wold love for BB to show the potential he did in 2011...I just don't trust him.

 

[gotime909]

Not sure anyone's dumb enough to trade for June Boesch. Might be stuck with him. But if the decision on the last position player is our biggest problem(not including any pitching decisions) I think we're doing ok.

 

[tomdalton22]

Not sure anyone's dumb enough to trade for June Boesch. Might be stuck with him. But if the decision on the last position player is our biggest problem(not including any pitching decisions) I think we're doing ok.

I agree. I think the biggest concern right now is the bull pen. I don't think I trust anybody they have!

 

[durtymrclean]

Krod is still out there...