Chicom global enslavement

[Michchamp]

Special Report: Amazon partnered with China propaganda arm

I don't really know what to make of this.

I remember this from 2014 (back when $600 MM was real money).

So is Amazon a threat to our national security? If they are, why do our intelligence agencies & their subcontractors do business with them?

I've disliked Amazon for a long time... and there's literally a mountain of reports and articles on their anti-competitive practices and dirty business. By that alone, I think they are bad for our society, and therefore they are a threat to national security in that way. Who knows what sort of shady backroom deals are going on with them and China, but presumably our own government is aware of them and okay with them.

on a personal level, I haven't ordered anything from them in over a year (though I cannot convince other members of my household to go along with this . the Indiana factory collapse might have finally swayed them to my side...), and I don't miss them at all. If I want something, I just go order it from the actual manufacturer online, or go to a store. I don't understand the people that claim they can't live without it. It's been really easy. Even books... I found a local independent bookstore, and order my reading materials through them.

 

[tomdalton22]

I don't really know what to make of this.

I remember this from 2014 (back when $600 MM was real money).

So is Amazon a threat to our national security? If they are, why do our intelligence agencies & their subcontractors do business with them?

I've disliked Amazon for a long time... and there's literally a mountain of reports and articles on their anti-competitive practices and dirty business. By that alone, I think they are bad for our society, and therefore they are a threat to national security in that way. Who knows what sort of shady backroom deals are going on with them and China, but presumably our own government is aware of them and okay with them.

on a personal level, I haven't ordered anything from them in over a year (though I cannot convince other members of my household to go along with this . the Indiana factory collapse might have finally swayed them to my side...), and I don't miss them at all. If I want something, I just go order it from the actual manufacturer online, or go to a store. I don't understand the people that claim they can't live without it. It's been really easy. Even books... I found a local independent bookstore, and order my reading materials through them.

I love Amazon because it's so convenient. Just this past week my dryer quit heating. I was 99% sure that it was the heating element. I went on Amazon, ordered the part for $39 and it was at my doorstep the next day.

 

[Michchamp]

I love Amazon because it's so convenient. Just this past week my dryer quit heating. I was 99% sure that it was the heating element. I went on Amazon, ordered the part for $39 and it was at my doorstep the next day.

with a minimal amount of effort, I almost guarantee you could find the same replacement part from the manufacturer or a dryer repair company.

amazon's (and ?bers and their ilk) strategy is obvious, and already happening in some places: monopolize, or duopolize a market, then jack prices through the roof.

so... I tell people they're really fucking themselves in the long run, when there are no alternatives to amazon.

 

[tigermud]

with a minimal amount of effort, I almost guarantee you could find the same replacement part from the manufacturer or a dryer repair company.

amazon's (and ?bers and their ilk) strategy is obvious, and already happening in some places: monopolize, or duopolize a market, then jack prices through the roof.

so... I tell people they're really fucking themselves in the long run, when there are no alternatives to amazon.

Most people don't care, most only see short term benefit with zero long term thought processing. It's all setup for Chicom Global Enslavement as too many choose $ over country. Trump tried to put a stop to China's plans for global domination but wasn't able to, but in the end it may not have mattered, it may have just hastened the timeline is all. I don't see how the world avoids a major conflict with China in the not too distant future.

 

[Michchamp]

Most people don't care, most only see short term benefit with zero long term thought processing. It's all setup for Chicom Global Enslavement as too many choose $ over country. Trump tried to put a stop to China's plans for global domination but wasn't able to, but in the end it may not have mattered, it may have just hastened the timeline is all. I don't see how the world avoids a major conflict with China in the not too distant future.

the Chinese - either currently or historically - really don't have much of a record of fighting outside their own borders.

In the 20th century, aside from wars of defense against Europeans, or Japanese, I can think of a couple relatively limited border clashes with Russia, India, and Vietnam.

Compare and contrast that to our track record...

 

[tigermud]

the Chinese - either currently or historically - really don't have much of a record of fighting outside their own borders.

In the 20th century, aside from wars of defense against Europeans, or Japanese, I can think of a couple relatively limited border clashes with Russia, India, and Vietnam.

Compare and contrast that to our track record...

That isn't stopping them from massive build ups, it's an inevitable collision course. I wouldn't be one least bit surprised if Russia goes into Ukraine and China Twain at the same time post winter games. March 2022

 

[tinselwolverine]

the Chinese - either currently or historically - really don't have much of a record of fighting outside their own borders.

In the 20th century, aside from wars of defense against Europeans, or Japanese, I can think of a couple relatively limited border clashes with Russia, India, and Vietnam.

Compare and contrast that to our track record...

Well, not if you don?t count of the bio-weapon anyway?

 

[tinselwolverine]

That isn't stopping them from massive build ups, it's an inevitable collision course. I wouldn't be one least bit surprised if Russia goes into Ukraine and China Twain at the same time post winter games. March 2022

Their ?women athletes? will stop taking the estrogen and go straight from the Games to the battlefield.

 

[Spartanmack]

with a minimal amount of effort, I almost guarantee you could find the same replacement part from the manufacturer or a dryer repair company.

amazon's (and ?bers and their ilk) strategy is obvious, and already happening in some places: monopolize, or duopolize a market, then jack prices through the roof.

so... I tell people they're really fucking themselves in the long run, when there are no alternatives to amazon.

I can pretty much guarantee that you can find the part, but it's likely to be more expensive and less convenient. Of all the home maintenance stuff I've done in the last several years, there have been things I couldn't get on Amazon but of all the replacement parts I could, the only item that was actually cheaper in a store were the LED replacement bulbs for the headlights of my car. Same with purchase of new items - virtually everything I've bought was the same price or cheaper on Amazon than on a company's direct to consumer website - and they offer faster delivery and easier returns (if I don't like something, I can just take it to Kohl's with a return code or even Whole Foods I think does it now too.)

 

[Michchamp]

I can pretty much guarantee that you can find the part, but it's likely to be more expensive and less convenient. Of all the home maintenance stuff I've done in the last several years, there have been things I couldn't get on Amazon but of all the replacement parts I could, the only item that was actually cheaper in a store were the LED replacement bulbs for the headlights of my car. Same with purchase of new items - virtually everything I've bought was the same price or cheaper on Amazon than on a company's direct to consumer website - and they offer faster delivery and easier returns (if I don't like something, I can just take it to Kohl's with a return code or even Whole Foods I think does it now too.)

How much more expensive? I haven't seen much of a difference

And what cost for that convenience, and all the packaging and time to order products online and ship them back?

Amazon has prioritized customer satisfaction above all else***, but it's obvious that's only because they still face some competition. Their track record with sellers, with their workers, on customer privacy, and product safety pretty much shows their "customer is always right" and "lowest price" schpiel won't last.



and they've only been able to offer lower prices because they cut legal corners on paying taxes on their revenue for years by claiming they had no nexus outside of WA, and don't actually vet their suppliers, maintain insurance, etc. (see comment below)


By buying from them, we make a deal with the devil.








***unless you get injured using a product they sell, where the manufacturer doesn't carry insurance and/or reply because it's some shady Chinese company, in which case Amazon gives you the finger, and almost all US courts have accepted their position that they're just a "platform" for you to "negotiate with the "real seller" and if that seller disappears, you have no legal recourse against Amazon for your loss or injury. I'm aware of at least a half dozen appellate court opinions holding in Amazon's favor on this. And when they face a court that is skeptical of their position, they've quietly settled out of court to avoid setting a precedent that would be fair to consumers.

 

[Michchamp]

Short answer: you're not actually paying the lowest price when you buy from amazon; you're not taking into account the future increases they'll soak you on, and the potential costs when they won't stand behind their products and they fail, or injure you.

 

[Spartanmack]

How much more expensive? I haven't seen much of a difference

And what cost for that convenience, and all the packaging and time to order products online and ship them back?

The price differences vary but it's far more convenient - the time to order products online is a fraction of the time it takes to get to store, find it on the shelf, pay and take it home - then take it back to the store if it's the wrong part.

Amazon has prioritized customer satisfaction above all else***, but it's obvious that's only because they still face some competition. Their track record with sellers, with their workers, on customer privacy, and product safety pretty much shows their "customer is always right" and "lowest price" schpiel won't last.

Good, all businesses should prioritize customer satisfaction - I do in my business and I prioritize my satisfaction as a consumer as well.

and they've only been able to offer lower prices because they cut legal corners on paying taxes on their revenue for years by claiming they had no nexus outside of WA, and don't actually vet their suppliers, maintain insurance, etc. (see comment below)

This hasn't been the case for several years now. I pay sales tax on virtually every purchase I make on Amazon - that's been the case since we've shifted so much of our consumption online.

By buying from them, we make a deal with the devil.

***unless you get injured using a product they sell, where the manufacturer doesn't carry insurance and/or reply because it's some shady Chinese company, in which case Amazon gives you the finger, and almost all US courts have accepted their position that they're just a "platform" for you to "negotiate with the "real seller" and if that seller disappears, you have no legal recourse against Amazon for your loss or injury. I'm aware of at least a half dozen appellate court opinions holding in Amazon's favor on this. And when they face a court that is skeptical of their position, they've quietly settled out of court to avoid setting a precedent that would be fair to consumers.

That's not really any different than if you were to buy the same stuff from a brick and mortar retailer.

 

[Spartanmack]

Short answer: you're not actually paying the lowest price when you buy from amazon; you're not taking into account the future increases they'll soak you on, and the potential costs when they won't stand behind their products and they fail, or injure you.

you're not always paying the lowest price now. For many people, the convenience is well worth the marginally higher price. Other than Amazon basics, which I'm sure is just co-packed w/ Amazon branding by a third party manufacturer, Amazon doesn't have any products. So far, none of the books, puzzles, curtain rods, kindles, toys, sports gear, light bulbs, charging cables, HDMI and Cat6 cables etc that we've purchased on Amazon have injured us. I sure hope that streak continues - cuz you know, who am I going to sue? About the most dangerous thing I've bought on Amazon was a router table, but it's made by Ryobi and I'm pretty sure they're the ones who would be liable if it was defective and caused an injury. I also bought my electric planer from amazon but same deal - Wen would be the responsible party if I was injured and it wasn't due to my own negligence.

By the way, chances are if you don't buy something from Amazon, you're going to buy it from some big box retailer that's not really any different. Best Buy, Dick's, Home Depot all put most of the mom and pop appliance, sporting goods and hardware retailers out of business years ago. I do support my local hardware store but they tend to have less selection and much higher prices and Home Depot or Lowes. They're only good for small items like keys, or small hardware stuff like hinges, fasteners, etc.

 

[tomdalton22]

that's true. Amazon is just a warehouse & distribution company. I'm sure there are a lot of Mom & Pop stores that do a lot more business because of Amazon.

I read that there are 200M amazon prime members. That's pretty amazing. I think we pay $15 a month for our membership. That's $3B a month just for membership fees.

 

[Michchamp]

...


Good, all businesses should prioritize customer satisfaction - I do in my business and I prioritize my satisfaction as a consumer as well.

yeah, there was a pretty big asterisk after that part.

This hasn't been the case for several years now. I pay sales tax on virtually every purchase I make on Amazon - that's been the case since we've shifted so much of our consumption online.

They were skirting state sales taxes right up until 2017! Amazon used tax arbitrage to stay afloat and gain market share over traditional book stores. That's how they started, books and CDs. They could only stay competitive with Barnes and Noble, and other booksellers (some of which Amazon crushed out of existence) & offer shipping discounts or free shipping because they maintained they shouldn't have to pay sales tax outside of WA. that's the only place (initially) they had a physical presence.

That's not really any different than if you were to buy the same stuff from a brick and mortar retailer.

It absolutely is. I worked in retail law for a long time, and Sears, Target, Walmart, Ace Hardware, Best Buy, etc. all have actual buyers who vet the finances of potential manufacturers and suppliers, sign contracts with them, and ensure they file certificates of insurance.


Amazon doesn't do any of that. You register an account with them, and click a box saying you'll comply with law and have insurance. THey don't actually check... they don't do shit beyond that. (EDIT: apparently, just this year, they started demanding their sellers provide additional documentation for certain products)


Their success is bad for all of us in the long run... but keep shopping and saving a couple bucks! Then blame "liberals" when they abruptly jack up their rates on whenever they feel they've captured the market on something.

 

[Michchamp]

... So far, none of the books, puzzles, curtain rods, kindles, toys, sports gear, light bulbs, charging cables, HDMI and Cat6 cables etc that we've purchased on Amazon have injured us.

...

That's good.

I don't think product liability lawsuits are very common, at least they were not common in my 13 years in retail; the shit we buy generally works the way it was supposed to, or is low risk for injuring someone or something, or if it breaks or doesn't work, we just throw it out because it's not worth the cost of a lawsuit.

Just don't buy your kids hoverboards, or scooters from Amazon, or buy yourself a dog lease (though they settled that one when it stopped going their way in PA court... lady still lost an eye though...), a hairdryer, or a laptop battery from them. In CA at least they've held amazon could be liable for that one...

They're also fighting the CPSC in court over its authority to issue product recalls. Just not a good corporate citizen!

 

[tomdalton22]

I'm not worried about Amazon taking over the entire retail market. It seems like we had similar discussions / worries about Wal Mart.

 

[Spartanmack]

yeah, there was a pretty big asterisk after that part.

it's still a really dumb thing to say and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of business in general. And I addressed the "pretty big asterisk" after that part.

They were skirting state sales taxes right up until 2017! Amazon used tax arbitrage to stay afloat and gain market share over traditional book stores. That's how they started, books and CDs. They could only stay competitive with Barnes and Noble, and other booksellers (some of which Amazon crushed out of existence) & offer shipping discounts or free shipping because they maintained they shouldn't have to pay sales tax outside of WA. that's the only place (initially) they had a physical presence.

it's not just sales tax they were beating retailers on. And they weren't skirting state sales tax - they weren't responsible for it. Whether or not you think it's right, it's still the case today if you don't have retail operations in a state, you don't collect and remit sales tax on sales to that state. The onus is on the consumer to report those purchases and remit the sales tax. That's true for every business, not just Amazon. People in NJ buy jewelry and watches at retailers in NY and have them shipped to NJ and the stores don't collect NY or NJ sales tax.

It absolutely is. I worked in retail law for a long time, and Sears, Target, Walmart, Ace Hardware, Best Buy, etc. all have actual buyers who vet the finances of potential manufacturers and suppliers, sign contracts with them, and ensure they file certificates of insurance.

Amazon doesn't do any of that. You register an account with them, and click a box saying you'll comply with law and have insurance. THey don't actually check... they don't do shit beyond that. (EDIT: apparently, just this year, they started demanding their sellers provide additional documentation for certain products)

Their success is bad for all of us in the long run... but keep shopping and saving a couple bucks! Then blame "liberals" when they abruptly jack up their rates on whenever they feel they've captured the market on something.

Sears (what's left of it), Target and Walmart may be doing that but they're not the people you're lamenting losing their business to Amazon now are they? How many mom & pop operations have buyers and legal departments who vet the finances of their manufacturers and suppliers? None of them do. Even if what you say is true, and I doubt your anecdote is all that accurate, if you have a product liability issue, isn't it the manufacturer that's responsible for it? Virtually everything I buy on Amazon is available at one of those stores you mentioned (usually at a higher price and with less convenience) so I can rest assured knowing that manufacturer/vendor has been properly vetted by someone if Amazon isn't doing it, right?

I'll keep buying what I want where I want - I don't see them abruptly jacking up prices whenever they've captured the market - certainly not in my lifetime.

 

[Spartanmack]

That's good.

I don't think product liability lawsuits are very common, at least they were not common in my 13 years in retail; the shit we buy generally works the way it was supposed to, or is low risk for injuring someone or something, or if it breaks or doesn't work, we just throw it out because it's not worth the cost of a lawsuit.

Just don't buy your kids hoverboards, or scooters from Amazon, or buy yourself a dog lease (though they settled that one when it stopped going their way in PA court... lady still lost an eye though...), a hairdryer, or a laptop battery from them. In CA at least they've held amazon could be liable for that one...

They're also fighting the CPSC in court over its authority to issue product recalls. Just not a good corporate citizen!

you posted links to 4 incidents to highlight how Amazon skirts product liability for items sold on their platform, but in 2 of them, Amazon was held liable. Good job not reading your own links again.

I'm not a litigious person, I think lawyers are leeches on society - the least ethical profession in the world, by far. In our sue happy culture, slimeball lawyers looking to make a fast buck sue everyone involved in the transaction. The only reason they go after the retailers is because they're easy targets with deep pockets. Personally, when I make a purchase I never ask myself 'who am I going to sue if this thing doesn't work?' and I've never once thought to buy from this retailer over that retailer because this one would be easier to sue. And I don't think I'll ever make any purchase decisions based on that. Except the vaccine - that's one product where liability factored into my decision making. The main reason I didn't take it was because I don't need it, but when I realized the manufacturer had no liability for a potentially dangerous product that hadn't been properly tested, and these guys at NIH and CDC that owned patent shares in these products were pushing literally everyone to get them it made taking it sound even dumber.

 

[Michchamp]

you posted links to 4 incidents to highlight how Amazon skirts product liability for items sold on their platform, but in 2 of them, Amazon was held liable. Good job not reading your own links again.

I'm not a litigious person, I think lawyers are leeches on society - the least ethical profession in the world, by far. In our sue happy culture, slimeball lawyers looking to make a fast buck sue everyone involved in the transaction. The only reason they go after the retailers is because they're easy targets with deep pockets. Personally, when I make a purchase I never ask myself 'who am I going to sue if this thing doesn't work?' and I've never once thought to buy from this retailer over that retailer because this one would be easier to sue. And I don't think I'll ever make any purchase decisions based on that. Except the vaccine - that's one product where liability factored into my decision making. The main reason I didn't take it was because I don't need it, but when I realized the manufacturer had no liability for a potentially dangerous product that hadn't been properly tested, and these guys at NIH and CDC that owned patent shares in these products were pushing literally everyone to get them it made taking it sound even dumber.

What? attorneys are the best people!

did one hurt you or something? do you need a hug?