Coronainsanity

[Spartanmack]

yeah, only like 600,000 people have died, and some millions were sick as fuck for a couple weeks, but recovered. Nothing worth panicking over.

you're right, it wasn't worth panicking over. Look what happened when we panicked - we made things worse and had no clear, demonstrable effect at slowing the virus. What we should have done was follow the science, protect the vulnerable and let everyone else go about their lives taking reasonable precautions.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Why would I be confident that that count is true when the government has lied to us about so much of everything else since this happened?

EDIT: Also, forget about not panicking. That ship sailed over a year ago.

Maybe you could be reasonably sure that count is close enough for any practical purposes.

 

[Michchamp]

you're right, it wasn't worth panicking over. Look what happened when we panicked - we made things worse and had no clear, demonstrable effect at slowing the virus. What we should have done was follow the science, protect the vulnerable and let everyone else go about their lives taking reasonable precautions.

so coronavirus spreads more when you panic.

If we would have all been more chill, and just stayed inside breathing the same air at bars, restaurants, stadiums, workplaces, etc. we would've been better off,
is that it?

 

[Spartanmack]

so coronavirus spreads more when you panic.

If we would have all been more chill, and just stayed inside breathing the same air at bars, restaurants, stadiums, workplaces, etc. we would've been better off,
is that it?

 

[Michchamp]

there needs to be a corrolary to the Logical Fallacies chart that if you point out when an argument is a logical fallacy to dumb Conservative guys, everything you say suddenly becomes that same logical fallacy, whether it fits the actual definition of it or not.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Maybe you could be reasonably sure that count is close enough for any practical purposes.

If the practical purpose would be accuracy, I don?t know why I would be reasonably sure.

If the practical purpose was because because health facilities were incentivized to report Covid cases and deaths with really no oversight, making that practice practical for the those facilities - yes, I?m confident that the count of deaths reported as attributed to Covid is accurate.

 

[Spartanmack]

there needs to be a corrolary to the Logical Fallacies chart that if you point out when an argument is a logical fallacy to dumb Conservative guys, everything you say suddenly becomes that same logical fallacy, whether it fits the actual definition of it or not.

what I said isn't a logical fallacy nor is it anything close to your obvious and unsurprising misrepresentation of what I said. Your post is the very definition of a strawman - it's pretty much all you do.

 

[tinselwolverine]

so coronavirus spreads more when you panic.

If we would have all been more chill, and just stayed inside breathing the same air at bars, restaurants, stadiums, workplaces, etc. we would've been better off,
is that it?

I?d say no, not all.

Just anyone who wasn?t sick and wasn?t in one of the known risk categories.

 

[Thumb]

you're right, it wasn't worth panicking over. Look what happened when we panicked - we made things worse and had no clear, demonstrable effect at slowing the virus. What we should have done was follow the science, protect the vulnerable and let everyone else go about their lives taking reasonable precautions.

So who were the vulnerable, and how would we have protected them?

Remember you can't use what we know now, but what we knew then, which was very little.

 

[tinselwolverine]

So who were the vulnerable, and how would we have protected them?

Remember you can't use what we know now, but what we knew then, which was very little.

Actually - here in the US anyway - we did know.

This was published actually a week before this thread was started.

Wasn?t that hard for smart people here to figure it out - just pay attention to what the people who were dying of it in places where it was already had in common.


How to protect them? Well, don?t put people infected with Covid in an enclosed place where high risk individuals - like, for example, elder care facilities - are.

That would have been a start.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Actually - here in the US anyway - we did know.

This was published actually a week before this thread was started.

Wasn?t that hard for smart people here to figure it out - just pay attention to what the people who were dying of it in places where it was already had in common.


How to protect them? Well, don?t put people infected with Covid in an enclosed place where high risk individuals - like, for example, elder care facilities - are.

That would have been a start.

In this link, the lowest death rate 0.2% for people aged 10-39.
If we tried to get to a low heard immunity percentage of 70 for the 130 million Americans in that age range, 0.2% would still be 181,000 deaths. Then the rate doubles for 40 year olds and is 6.5 times higher for 50 year olds (111k 40 year olds and 377k 50 year olds). So maybe we'd look into comorbidities and conclude we don't smoke as much as the Chinese people that paper is based on, but then we'd look at obesity and we'd be screwed.

 

[Gulo Blue]

How to protect them? Well, don?t put people infected with Covid in an enclosed place where high risk individuals - like, for example, elder care facilities - are.

This issue, on the other hand, should still be a matter of investigation and maybe people going to jail if we can figure out a law that fits.

 

[Spartanmack]

So who were the vulnerable, and how would we have protected them?

Remember you can't use what we know now, but what we knew then, which was very little.

for one, as Tinsel said, we did know and we also had a pretty good indication that infection rates were much higher than reported and therefore, mortality rates were likely much lower.

For another, we've known for a long time now the "panic" measures certain posters are so fond of weren't effective (some were actually lethal) and carried significant unintended consequences, yet we continued to follow them and inflict greater harm. We didn't just panic and make 1 or 2 mistakes at a point in time way back when. We made mistakes and continued to double down on them.

Look at Florida and what DeSantis did very early on to protect their vulnerable population. They prioritized protecting the elderly and infirmed in the early stages because they followed the science. They didn't initiate draconian lockdowns and despite the press painting him and the state as reckless anti-science rubes, their outcomes were no worse than states that took the most draconian measures. And their economy, despite being heavily dependent on tourism didn't suffer as badly and came back or is coming back faster.

 

[Michchamp]

for one, as Tinsel said, we did know and we also had a pretty good indication that infection rates were much higher than reported and therefore, mortality rates were likely much lower.

For another, we've known for a long time now the "panic" measures certain posters are so fond of weren't effective (some were actually lethal) and carried significant unintended consequences, yet we continued to follow them and inflict greater harm. We didn't just panic and make 1 or 2 mistakes at a point in time way back when. We made mistakes and continued to double down on them.

Look at Florida and what DeSantis did very early on to protect their vulnerable population. They prioritized protecting the elderly and infirmed in the early stages because they followed the science. They didn't initiate draconian lockdowns and despite the press painting him and the state as reckless anti-science rubes, their outcomes were no worse than states that took the most draconian measures. And their economy, despite being heavily dependent on tourism didn't suffer as badly and came back or is coming back faster.

Actually - here in the US anyway - we did know.

This was published actually a week before this thread was started.

Wasn?t that hard for smart people here to figure it out - just pay attention to what the people who were dying of it in places where it was already had in common.


How to protect them? Well, don?t put people infected with Covid in an enclosed place where high risk individuals - like, for example, elder care facilities - are.

That would have been a start.

This is all fantasy... do you think we live in China? Singapore? You think we're capable of managing the sort of regime that protects some people while letting everyone else go about their business?

We had a president openly undermining his own health officials, telling people this was nothing to worry about, holding public rallies to say that, health officials giving conflicting advice that was NOT based on scientific study (like Fauci's double take on masks), while his cabinet members ran around trying to profit off the pandemic.

We have governors that sent old people to die with no political consequences, because that's what the hedge funds that run nursing home conglomerates wanted, along with immunizing them from lawsuits, the only recourse people who lost parents and grandparents had... you think that would have gone unnoticed in China? Hell no. Cuomo and all the frauds that pushed that policy would be in jail already.

A significant part of the population swallowed all the president's nonsense hook, line and sinker... were they going to stay home and avoid eating in restaurants, going to church, etc. if they got sick?

We see the death rates and illness rates in hindsight; again, these would have been worse had we not had masks, and shutdowns in order to slow the spread & hospitalizations. How many people recovered because they were able to get into a hospital, but wouldn't have if this was spreading like wildfire through churches, bars, restaurants, etc.?

And dying wasn't the only bad outcome... getting sick was no picnic, but all accounts of people I know who had it - not "High risk" individuals either! In most cases they had a full week of being too sick to do anything but lay in bed wishing they would die, and still had trouble breathing weeks after recovering. I'm worried in some cases the trouble breathing is due to lung damage that will plague them for years. Had we not closed things like we did and this spread through workplaces, restaurants, bars, etc. it would've shut down the country anyways.

You guys are just wrong about this.

It is a novel virus; we still don't know a lot about it; it's not like getting over the flu (like the same people were claiming in March 2020), and therefore when dealing with an unknown, the proper response is MORE caution, not less.

I can't believe this still needs to be said.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Does anyone not know someone under 50 and healthy that's lost their senses of taste or smell?

Does anyone think those situations are well understood to be limited to impacting taste and smell? How our senses work is really simple stuff right? No big deal if you mess with the nervous system.

 

[Michchamp]

Does anyone not know someone under 50 and healthy that's lost their senses of taste or smell?

Does anyone think those situations are well understood to be limited to impacting taste and smell? How our senses work is really simple stuff right? No big deal if you mess with the nervous system.

last week, I talked to a friend of mine (age 43, healthy) who had just gotten over it.

He had gotten his first Pfizer shot a week before. He said he woke up on a Tuesday morning feeling fine, and by 3 pm that day, couldn't taste anything, and felt like his head was going to explode. He said he spent the next 5 days in bed, sleeping 20+ hours each day. He still has trouble breathing a couple weeks after recovering, and can't exercise or ride his stupid Peloton.

He said the loss of taste was crazy; wasn't like a cold where things just didn't taste as good... he couldn't taste ANYTHING. He said the only way he could tell what he was eating was by sight.

 

[Michchamp]

FWIW, his wife, who was fully vaccinated, did not get sick.

 

[tomdalton22]

last week, I talked to a friend of mine (age 43, healthy) who had just gotten over it.

He had gotten his first Pfizer shot a week before. He said he woke up on a Tuesday morning feeling fine, and by 3 pm that day, couldn't taste anything, and felt like his head was going to explode. He said he spent the next 5 days in bed, sleeping 20+ hours each day. He still has trouble breathing a couple weeks after recovering, and can't exercise or ride his stupid Peloton.

He said the loss of taste was crazy; wasn't like a cold where things just didn't taste as good... he couldn't taste ANYTHING. He said the only way he could tell what he was eating was by sight.

My son's fiancee tested positive for it over the winter. She is 31 and said she lost her sense of taste and smell. They live together and he had the same symptoms but his test came back negative. They both described it like a light case of the flu and recovered quickly. My guess is both had it or neither had it.

In late Feb my wife's mom and her husband (wife's step dad) tested positive. They didn't get tested until he was very sick. She had no symptoms at all and he died.

 

[Spartanmack]

This is all fantasy... do you think we live in China? Singapore? You think we're capable of managing the sort of regime that protects some people while letting everyone else go about their business?

It's not fantasy. What we did was your fantasy come true. It's not difficult because a few states did it and demonstrated they are capable of managing that sort of regime.

We had a president openly undermining his own health officials, telling people this was nothing to worry about, holding public rallies to say that, health officials giving conflicting advice that was NOT based on scientific study (like Fauci's double take on masks), while his cabinet members ran around trying to profit off the pandemic.

He should have been questioning the lockdowns, even Cuomo was saying we had to reopen as early as April last year. What we really had was the press and opposition leaders undermining the president from the beginning. Then when they reversed course, they put all the blame on him and focused guys like DeSantis who actually followed the science and took a better course of action.

We have governors that sent old people to die with no political consequences, because that's what the hedge funds that run nursing home conglomerates wanted, along with immunizing them from lawsuits, the only recourse people who lost parents and grandparents had... you think that would have gone unnoticed in China? Hell no. Cuomo and all the frauds that pushed that policy would be in jail already.

Cuomo should go to jail but where is your evidence that hedge funds were pushing him to do it? Were they pushing Newsome and Whitmer to do it too? Also, where is your evidence that the cabinet was running around trying to profit from the pandemic? Don't you ever get sick of trying to pin every government failure on the private sector and their evil profits?

A significant part of the population swallowed all the president's nonsense hook, line and sinker... were they going to stay home and avoid eating in restaurants, going to church, etc. if they got sick?

Well it turns out they were right and the bigger problem is all you chicken littles buying the panic hook, line and sinker.

We see the death rates and illness rates in hindsight; again, these would have been worse had we not had masks, and shutdowns in order to slow the spread & hospitalizations. How many people recovered because they were able to get into a hospital, but wouldn't have if this was spreading like wildfire through churches, bars, restaurants, etc.?

no, they wouldn't - big and small states Florida, Texas and South Dakota didn't lock down and they didn't have worse outcomes. You're wrong.

And dying wasn't the only bad outcome... getting sick was no picnic, but all accounts of people I know who had it - not "High risk" individuals either! In most cases they had a full week of being too sick to do anything but lay in bed wishing they would die, and still had trouble breathing weeks after recovering. I'm worried in some cases the trouble breathing is due to lung damage that will plague them for years. Had we not closed things like we did and this spread through workplaces, restaurants, bars, etc. it would've shut down the country anyways.

You guys are just wrong about this.

It is a novel virus; we still don't know a lot about it; it's not like getting over the flu (like the same people were claiming in March 2020), and therefore when dealing with an unknown, the proper response is MORE caution, not less.

I can't believe this still needs to be said.

Getting sick was no picnic for some people but for others (the overwhelming majority) had mild to no symptoms.

You are just dead wrong about this. You will never admit it, but much of what we did, didn't help and it had serious unintended consequences that we will be dealing with for a long time, not the least of which is panicking and overreacting in the future in similar situations. Rather than admitting you're wrong, you'll continue to falsely claim you're side is guided by science and the people who actually followed the science are evil anti-science, money grubbing capitalists profiting off of tragedy.

 

[tigermud]

In the meantime, get your untested vaccine, wear your useless mask and keep the proper social distancing. It doesn't matter that we've been and are being lied to about the source of the virus, everything else those same people tell us about it can be trusted absolutely and without question.

There is zero reason to trust those in positions of so called expert scientific positions.