Coronainsanity

[Gulo Blue]

If that happens, look for another “discovery” that intensifies the “need” to wear one. And if some people are that easily swayed, how convinced are they that it is effective in the first place?

They are not convinced. They look to the wisdom of the crowd. They speed when everyone speeds and go the speed limit when everyone goes the speed limit. Not everyone should have to be an independent expert on everything and people certainly don't make decisions with that requirement. So we influence each other. And in this case, by rejecting the idea that a certain behavior is dangerous, people risk contributing to a culture of risky behavior that is hurting people.


I assume that you are certain that you are not contributing to the harm of others by posting about your refusal to wear masks. I accept that as an obvious, 'goes without speaking' fact. So I wonder why you are so certain.

 

[byco42]

It's your quote. You tell me what it was before or after. I'm not the one with a problem with the idea that understanding a new thing takes time and initial data can be misleading.

A COVID ?spore? (I do not know the proper term) can evolve to travel from a distance of three feet to 27 feet in the span of a few months? It can go from being marginally airborne only in a nebulizer to being the primary way that the virus is spread?

An exhaled liquid droplet is much, much larger than CO2 molecules (It's like comparing the size of grains of sand to an entire beach.) . If masks impede the movement of CO2, then they obviously impede droplets.

That?s ok, because experts know with certainty that masks do not increase CO2 inhalation appreciably. Google confirms this.

When you say "I am refusing to wear one" without that context, you paint a different picture.

I am refusing to wear one. I?ve just not been placed in a situation to demonstrate this yet.

 

[Gulo Blue]

A COVID “spore” (I do not know the proper term) can evolve to travel from a distance of three feet to 27 feet in the span of a few months? It can go from being marginally airborne only in a nebulizer to being the primary way that the virus is spread?

It's like a collection of whiffle balls of wildly different sizes. Not only do they each travel different distances when thrown at the same speed, but they also are thrown at different speeds, they are highly impacted by winds, and we don't (or didn't) know the minimum size that could contain enough virus to be dangerous. Also, depending on temperature and humidity, they evaporate, which at that scale is like the whiffle balls shrinking at different rates as they fly through the air.

That’s ok, because experts know with certainty that masks do not increase CO2 inhalation appreciably. Google confirms this.

What did you mean with your CO2 point from 45 minutes ago?

I am refusing to wear one. I’ve just not been placed in a situation to demonstrate this yet.

Sure. But that's not how your post read. You left the context out. Nobody's talking about wearing masks at home. What does it mean to refuse to wear a mask in situations you're not asked to wear one? Am I refusing to stand at attention right now?

 

[Spartanmack]

Just being seen not wearing a mask makes some other people think it's ok to not wear one. People on the fence will go with the flow.

people sitting on the fence also see people wearing masks. It's up to them, not me or anyone else, to decide whether they should wear one or not. According to what I see every day, "the flow" is overwhelmingly toward wearing a mask, so the fence sitters will likely comply as well.

 

[byco42]

They are not convinced. They look to the wisdom of the crowd. They speed when everyone speeds and go the speed limit when everyone goes the speed limit. Not everyone should have to be an independent expert on everything and people certainly don't make decisions with that requirement. So we influence each other. And in this case, by rejecting the idea that a certain behavior is dangerous, people risk contributing to a culture of risky behavior that is hurting people.

Like I said: I?m keeping my distance and washing my hands probably 30 times a day. Every opportunity I get.

I assume that you are certain that you are not contributing to the harm of others by posting about your refusal to wear masks. I accept that as an obvious, 'goes without speaking' fact. So I wonder why you are so certain.

I am certain that no one is certain about the effectiveness of masks and even the experts who say we should wear them are not sure themselves. All you need to do is read what they are writing.

I am mildly surprised this information is this recent

 

[Gulo Blue]

people sitting on the fence also see people wearing masks. It's up to them, not me or anyone else, to decide whether they should wear one or not. According to what I see every day, "the flow" is overwhelmingly toward wearing a mask, so the fence sitters will likely comply as well.

It took a long time to get there and we're still not where we should be. We're all contributing to this culture of mask wearing or avoiding, both in our actions and speech. We're just one of the few stupid places that politicized it and our death count reflects it.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Like I said: I’m keeping my distance and washing my hands probably 30 times a day. Every opportunity I get.



I am certain that no one is certain about the effectiveness of masks and even the experts who say we should wear them are not sure themselves. All you need to do is read what they are writing.

I am mildly surprised this information is this recent

This is only the question of whether or not it can be transmitted by really tiny droplets that hang in the air for hours (and can be dispersed by ventilation systems), as opposed to the larger droplets which are only in the air for seconds or minutes. It's not what a lot of people think it is.

 

[Spartanmack]

It took a long time to get there and we're still not where we should be. We're all contributing to this culture of mask wearing or avoiding, both in our actions and speech. We're just one of the few stupid places that politicized it and our death count reflects it.

I think our death count, not masks is a reflection of politicizing the virus. It reflects the monumental stupidity of Governors like Cuomo, Murphy and Whitmer who forced nursing homes to take COVID patients. It reflects morons like Pelosi, De Blasio and Cuomo who early on called Trump a racist for attempting to restrict travel from China and actively encouraged people to congregate en masse for festivals. These are the people who have politicized the virus - and the media is playing along lauding Cuomo as a hero of the pandemic and vilifying Desantis based on what appears to be faulty data. If you believe the data, New York has had 8x the deaths Florida has had.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I think our death count, not masks is a reflection of politicizing the virus. It reflects the monumental stupidity of Governors like Cuomo, Murphy and Whitmer who forced nursing homes to take COVID patients. It reflects morons like Pelosi, De Blasio and Cuomo who early on called Trump a racist for attempting to restrict travel from China and actively encouraged people to congregate en masse for festivals. These are the people who have politicized the virus - and the media is playing along lauding Cuomo as a hero of the pandemic and vilifying Desantis based on what appears to be faulty data. If you believe the data, New York has had 8x the deaths Florida has had.

I should try to figure out what happened with nursing homes at some point. It's not that simple. I read that for some reason, NY has a much lower percentage of their covid death count from nursing homes, which doesn't make sense to me.

 

[byco42]

This is only the question of whether or not it can be transmitted by really tiny droplets that hang in the air for hours (and can be dispersed by ventilation systems), as opposed to the larger droplets which are only in the air for seconds or minutes. It's not what a lot of people think it is.

All I have to do is read what the experts are telling me to know that this event is being manipulated into a social-control experiment.

?The reason to do this [wear a non-medical cloth mask], even though they're not quite the same efficacy as medical masks, is that they do have some level of efficacy.

They are not only a way of decreasing breathing in the virus, primarily through large respiratory droplets, but also a behavioral reminder (!) that there's a pandemic and life is not the same right now ― and a reminder not to put our hands in our eyes nose or mouth until we've washed our hands.?

Dr. Gregory Poland, Mayo Clinic, is apparently wrong on the purpose of masks.

?Surgical masks are not designed to prevent inhalation of airborne particles, and their ability to protect HCWs [Health Care Workers] from disease acquisition varies.? Source: Link

He?s a master at master speak, I?ll offer that.

 

[Gulo Blue]

All I have to do is read what the experts are telling me to know that this event is being manipulated into a social-control experiment.

?The reason to do this [wear a non-medical cloth mask], even though they're not quite the same efficacy as medical masks, is that they do have some level of efficacy.

They are not only a way of decreasing breathing in the virus, primarily through large respiratory droplets, but also a behavioral reminder (!) that there's a pandemic and life is not the same right now ― and a reminder not to put our hands in our eyes nose or mouth until we've washed our hands.?

Dr. Gregory Poland, Mayo Clinic, is apparently wrong on the purpose of masks.

?Surgical masks are not designed to prevent inhalation of airborne particles, and their ability to protect HCWs [Health Care Workers] from disease acquisition varies.? Source: Link

He?s a master at master speak, I?ll offer that.

You are seeing conflict between statements and sinister intentions that I'm not. Of all the things that have happened in my life giving the elites control over us, masks don't even register. It's like South Park's underpants gnomes plan for profits.


Step 1: Wear masks
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Total social control!

 

[Gulo Blue]

Meanwhile there's facebook, twitter, this website, email, credit cards, the dominance of subscription TV, the cell phone in your pocket, microphones built into everything...

 

[byco42]

You are seeing conflict between statements and sinister intentions that I'm not.

Agreed. I?m also seeing another expert say nothing whatsoever substantial or definitive.

Of all the things that have happened in my life giving the elites control over us, masks don't even register. It's like South Park's underpants gnomes plan for profits.


Step 1: Wear masks
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Total social control!

I?m somewhat non-plussed that you see nothing irregular about government officials forcing us to wear masks on the whim that they ?may? be effective. And why they are doing this.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Agreed. I?m also seeing another expert say nothing whatsoever substantial or definitive.



I?m somewhat non-plussed that you see nothing irregular about government officials forcing us to wear masks on the whim that they ?may? be effective. And why they are doing this.

They are low impact on the economy and there is evidence that they help. I understand the argument between shutting down the economy vs people's lives, but masks vs lives. This should be so much easier. Have you looked into evidence supporting mask use? I think new studies not just focused on one direction of transmission have been done since this started.

 

[Thumb]

Wondering about the opinion of you Michiganders who received this yesterday:

From Twitter: ? Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer used the emergency broadcast system Monday to order residents to wear masks! This woman is a psychopath, Truly!!! Cell phones went off at 4:44 p.m. with an ?Emergency Alert?

(The opinion expressed here in regard to this Governor?s particular state of mind is one with which that I wholeheartedly agree)

My cell phone did not go off. Also, yeah her concern for the safety of the public at large is surely a sign that she's a "psychopath". How dare that filthy bitch act like a leader instead of playing golf!

And believe me when I say, your post script was unnecessary, as everyone pretty much knows at this point you would wholeheartedly agree with that.

 

[byco42]

They are low impact on the economy and there is evidence that they help. I understand the argument between shutting down the economy vs people's lives, but masks vs lives. This should be so much easier. Have you looked into evidence supporting mask use? I think new studies not just focused on one direction of transmission have been done since this started.

Yes: The evidence is way too overwhelming for me to take seriously. By the way, the CDC term for wearing masks is “Source Control.”

And there are many studies published prior to 2020 that concluded masks are not efficacious in preventing the spread of the flu and colds.

“Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419.

N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.

Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456.

None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.

bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267.

There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.

Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016

We identified six clinical studies … . In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism.

Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) “Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis,” Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942,

Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant.”​

And the CDC only recommends cloth face coverings. Not paper.

“COVID-19 is an emerging, rapidly evolving situation.” A great way to keep changing the narrative.

“Social Distancing” is a contradiction of terms, but 6 feet of separation makes facial recognition easier ,even with masks.

 

[Michchamp]

...

Theres no science needed to understand that when you sneeze i dont want your nasty ass snot, breath and virus infested germs on me. I dont want them anywhere near me. I dont want them in the air. How much science do you need to understand putting something over your face helps reduce that number of snot, breath and virus infested germs in the air that others breath in?

Why would you say something like that? Why would you contribute to the public narrative discouraging people from using masks? I understand that the idea that covering your mouth helps to reduce the transmission of a respiratory disease doesn't resonate with you, but how are you so certain that no amount of information you get in the future on this topic will change your mind? If you're wrong, you're encouraging a behavior that's hurting people. I don't see how you can be that confident that covering your mouth doesn't help.

You guys realize that - other than a handful of decent posters (who appear to be posting less and less these days anyway) - you're trying to have rational conversations about politics, race, and public health issues with: a guy who's religious beliefs put him comfortably in the "medieval period" & who appears to be losing his grip on reality, another guy who never had a grip on reality & is also painfully stupid, a person quite obviously on the "personality disorder" spectrum who has a pathological need to be "right" about everything (whether or not a "right" answer could even exist), a libertarian/contrarian in Hollywood most likely drunk), a racist Polish internet troll, and... uh... Tom Dalton?



Right?

 

[byco42]

Glad you are alive and well, MC. Seriously.

 

[tomdalton22]

You guys realize that - other than a handful of decent posters (who appear to be posting less and less these days anyway) - you're trying to have rational conversations about politics, race, and public health issues with: a guy who's religious beliefs put him comfortably in the "medieval period" & who appears to be losing his grip on reality, another guy who never had a grip on reality & is also painfully stupid, a person quite obviously on the "personality disorder" spectrum who has a pathological need to be "right" about everything (whether or not a "right" answer could even exist), a libertarian/contrarian in Hollywood most likely drunk), a racist Polish internet troll, and... uh... Tom Dalton?



Right?

I'm hurt that you didn't have a specific insult for me. :cheers:

On a serious note, I am glad that you are alive and well. I was beginning to wonder...

 

[byco42]

I'm hurt that you didn't have a specific insult for me. :cheers:

On a serious note, I am glad that you are alive and well. I was beginning to wonder...

I think that the question (?) was sufficient. Be thankful that an elitist like MC even calls you out by ?name.?