Dirks/Kelly/Oliver for Parra?

[biggunsbob]

KalineCountry[/color]]I didn't pay much attention to this in the last couple of days when the thread was posted and not knowing that much about Parra....but there is a link here from Mlive
http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2012/02/in_hypothetical_trade_former_g.html
In hypothetical trade, former GM Jim Bowden highlights an ideal target for Detroit Tigers.

Anybody else find it comical that this guy recycled the pay-to-read Insider article into a column while adding nothing in the mix? How does that pass as journalism?

I was just thinking that...

 

[Monster]

[quote="Monster ":vfp9jh9m]Why is everyone so down on Delmon Young's bat? He was pretty damn good for us last year.

Sub .300 OBP for us, and terrible defense is not "pretty damn good", he hit a few HR's (8) and people get all excited.

The Twins knew what they were doing when they dumped his ass.

For all the bitching about him, Ryan Raburn is a better hitter, RR has a better career .OBP and .OPS than the former #1 overall pick.[/quote:vfp9jh9m]

i'd call 32 RBI in 40 games pretty damn good. So he didn't walk much. He hit decently and did a great job getting runners in.

Last year was also a down year by his standards. You don't throw a guy like him away.

 

[randyf10]

The problem Monster is that we haven't saw him play D for a whole season, if he plays like he has the last few years he is one of the worst in baseball, I didn't mind his bat, but think he probably hit much better in front of Cabrera than he will behind Prince, much more pressure there and Leyland doesn't want to stick him in the DH spot in his contract year and only 28, however, Jim is saying what Delomon wants to hear, watch what happens if we get Cespedes and he is ready to start in LF by April, than DY will DH, traded for a bag of balls or DFA even.

 

[Monster]

The problem Monster is that we haven't saw him play D for a whole season, if he plays like he has the last few years he is one of the worst in baseball, I didn't mind his bat, but think he probably hit much better in front of Cabrera than he will behind Prince, much more pressure there and Leyland doesn't want to stick him in the DH spot in his contract year and only 28, however, Jim is saying what Delomon wants to hear, watch what happens if we get Cespedes and he is ready to start in LF by April, than DY will DH, traded for a bag of balls or DFA even.

yep, i have no argument about his glove.

 

[Thumb]

Monster [/color]]
[quote="MI_Thumb":qgimetv6]



Sub .300 OBP for us, and terrible defense is not "pretty damn good", he hit a few HR's (8) and people get all excited.

The Twins knew what they were doing when they dumped his ass.

For all the bitching about him, Ryan Raburn is a better hitter, RR has a better career .OBP and .OPS than the former #1 overall pick.

i'd call 32 RBI in 40 games pretty damn good. So he didn't walk much. He hit decently and did a great job getting runners in.

Last year was also a down year by his standards. You don't throw a guy like him away.[/quote:qgimetv6]


Last year was not a down year by his standards.

It was only a down year by 2010's standards, which was inflated by guys he was hitting behind.

And Tampa and Minny already threw him away, and I wish we would, he is a negative WAR player.

 

[randyf10]

I don't think Tampa actually threw him away didn't they acquire Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett in that deal? That was quite different than what Minny got from us, plus with Minny it was as much of a salary dump as anything, they could still use him as a p/t OF and DH but they didn't want to pay him what he would get in arbitration, Minny isn't better because they got rid of him.

 

[mjsb2]

I don't think Tampa actually threw him away didn't they acquire Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett in that deal? That was quite different than what Minny got from us, plus with Minny it was as much of a salary dump as anything, they could still use him as a p/t OF and DH but they didn't want to pay him what he would get in arbitration, Minny isn't better because they got rid of him.

They got rid of him because he's not good.

It should tell you something when they trade someone because they don't want to him 6 mill.

 

[tomdalton22]

[quote="Monster ":69l9ewk2]

i'd call 32 RBI in 40 games pretty damn good. So he didn't walk much. He hit decently and did a great job getting runners in.

Last year was also a down year by his standards. You don't throw a guy like him away.

Last year was not a down year by his standards.

It was only a down year by 2010's standards, which was inflated by guys he was hitting behind.

And Tampa and Minny already threw him away, and I wish we would, he is a negative WAR player.[/quote:69l9ewk2]

Let's look at this objectively. 2007 was his first full season. He hit .288 with 13 HR, 93 RBI. He was traded to MN. In his three full seasons there he hit .292 averaged 15 HR a year. His career OPS is .749...he won't be below that this year. He hit 8 HR in 40 games for the tigers last year. He also hit 5 post season HRs while injured part of the time. I think I am safe in saying the Tigers have no better options for their DH this year and I have no problem with DY. I think if he plays a full year he hits over .280 and 25+ HRs.

 

[Rebbiv]

Monster [/color]]
[quote="MI_Thumb":86hnujmf]



Sub .300 OBP for us, and terrible defense is not "pretty damn good", he hit a few HR's (8) and people get all excited.

The Twins knew what they were doing when they dumped his ass.

For all the bitching about him, Ryan Raburn is a better hitter, RR has a better career .OBP and .OPS than the former #1 overall pick.

i'd call 32 RBI in 40 games pretty damn good. So he didn't walk much. He hit decently and did a great job getting runners in.

Last year was also a down year by his standards. You don't throw a guy like him away.[/quote:86hnujmf]


Sample size, sample size, sample size....

In 2009, Inge hit 12 HRs, 31 RBIs and .965 OPS in the 1st 40 games. In 2006, Chris Shelton had 11 HRs, 28 RBs and 1.017 OPS in the his first 42 games. OK...so Young had 8 HRs, 32 RBIs and .756 OPS in 40 games.

Now, RBIs are a team stat. Given enough opportunities, just about any true ML hitter will drive in runs.

Next, HRs. Of his 8 HRs, only 1 was really a game changer. Maybe 2. That is it. 5 for sure had no affect on the result.

Now, the average, I mean average, offensive LFer has a .759 OPS (83.79 RC/650) over the last 3 years . Young has averaged .758 OPS and 78.07 RC/650 over the last 3 years. At first glance, it appears his OPS is average. However, his Runs Created is 5 runs below average, equivalent to one win below average. And that is just his offense. BTW...Runs Created takes into account GIDP, where Young is one of the worst (PA/GIDP).

Now, the average AL DH is .766 OPS and 83.77 RC/650. So, regardless of LF or DH, Young provide average to slightly below average offensive production. On defense (LF), Young would be an additional 3-4 wins below average.

2010 was Young's only season where he was above average offensively.

Throw in the fact that DET is going to pay him $6.75 Mil. And yes, I have an issue. It is less of an issue if he is the DH.

 

[Thumb]

Last year was not a down year by his standards.

It was only a down year by 2010's standards, which was inflated by guys he was hitting behind.

And Tampa and Minny already threw him away, and I wish we would, he is a negative WAR player.

Let's look at this objectively. 2007 was his first full season. He hit .288 with 13 HR, 93 RBI. He was traded to MN. In his three full seasons there he hit .292 averaged 15 HR a year. His career OPS is .749...he won't be below that this year. He hit 8 HR in 40 games for the tigers last year. He also hit 5 post season HRs while injured part of the time. I think I am safe in saying the Tigers have no better options for their DH this year and I have no problem with DY. I think if he plays a full year he hits over .280 and 25+ HRs.

First you say objectively, then you whip out your crystal ball and make predictions.

How do you know what his OPS will be?

And as far as better options at DH, Delmon is our LF, not our DH.

And Raburn, Avila when he's not catching, Cabrera or Fielder if given an off day from the field, and even Boesch are all better DH options than Delmon, the fact he sucks on defense should not be a reason to promote him to DH.

 

[tomdalton22]

Let's look at this objectively. 2007 was his first full season. He hit .288 with 13 HR, 93 RBI. He was traded to MN. In his three full seasons there he hit .292 averaged 15 HR a year. His career OPS is .749...he won't be below that this year. He hit 8 HR in 40 games for the tigers last year. He also hit 5 post season HRs while injured part of the time. I think I am safe in saying the Tigers have no better options for their DH this year and I have no problem with DY. I think if he plays a full year he hits over .280 and 25+ HRs.

First you say objectively, then you whip out your crystal ball and make predictions.

How do you know what his OPS will be?

And as far as better options at DH, Delmon is our LF, not our DH.

And Raburn, Avila when he's not catching, Cabrera or Fielder if given an off day from the field, and even Boesch are all better DH options than Delmon, the fact he sucks on defense should not be a reason to promote him to DH.

What I meant was looking at just his numbers..maybe I used the wrong word when I said objectively. I should have said just look at his numbers. THEN...to make you happy I should have said "I think he will" when making my prediction. As far as him in LF...I am not excited about him there but his offense will be better than any other option the Tigers have there. You mentioned every day players for the DH spot...I am talking a full time DH. DY is the best option for the Tigers full time DH. If any of those guys (except Raburn) needs a day off in the field but still bat I would take them over DY.

 

[mjsb2]

Raburn has been better than DY each of the past 3 seasons.

 

[biggunsbob]

[quote="Monster ":5rq06uow]Why is everyone so down on Delmon Young's bat? He was pretty damn good for us last year.

Sub .300 OBP for us, and terrible defense is not "pretty damn good", he hit a few HR's (8) and people get all excited.

The Twins knew what they were doing when they dumped his ass.

For all the bitching about him, Ryan Raburn is a better hitter, RR has a better career .OBP and .OPS than the former #1 overall pick.[/quote:5rq06uow]


And to say that Raburn is a way better fielder then Young is pretty funny...

 

[Thumb]

biggunsbob[/color]]
[quote="MI_Thumb":djjzgi3g]



Sub .300 OBP for us, and terrible defense is not "pretty damn good", he hit a few HR's (8) and people get all excited.

The Twins knew what they were doing when they dumped his ass.

For all the bitching about him, Ryan Raburn is a better hitter, RR has a better career .OBP and .OPS than the former #1 overall pick.

And to say that Raburn is a way better fielder then Young is pretty funny...[/quote:djjzgi3g]


No, it's not.

Raburn is Willie Mays compared to Delmon.