Draft Lottery tonight

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Jeremey Lamb might be available.

Rodney actually had a good year. He tore it up at times when healthy, and was the most efficient he's ever been because he finally started drawing fouls at a higher rate. That isn't to say there aren't better options, but I don't think Lamb is. Lamb is like a lite, SG version of Tayshaun Prince. He can shoot, but he's not a great shooter. He can handle the ball, but you don't want him doing it a lot. He has a lot of skills, but always fades into the background. His only real elite talent is defense, and even that isn't a guarantee. He could easily be Corey Brewer, a near washout.

If we are looking at SGs, I'd actually prefer Terrence Ross. He's the better and more consistent shooter, and as well can get to the basket. We were the second worst offense in the league last year (beating only the historically worst ever Bobcats).

 

[zoombabyzoom]

So we are looking at the following players:

SG Jeremy Lamb
SG Terrence Ross
PF Perry Jones III
PF/C Tyler Zeller
PF John Henson

Id rank them Jones, Ross, Zeller, Lamb, Henson

 

[biggunsbob]

Just give me a solid guy who can defend and rebound..

 

[mhughes0021]

Just give me a solid guy who can defend and rebound..

+1 were not getting a difference maker at 9. Grab a starting big that can rebound. Leonard or Henson for me unless a quality SF drops.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

+1 were not getting a difference maker at 9. Grab a starting big that can rebound. Leonard or Henson for me unless a quality SF drops.

I'm kind of souring on Henson, he's old and a tweener. Leonard has all the upside in the world, and I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. That said, there's nothing that says we can't get a difference maker at 9. It is unlikely given history of the 9th pick, but not a foregone conclusion. Perry Jones could be a star PF if he gets his head on straight (similar things were said about Greg Monroe). The SG class may be better than it is getting credit.

We won't know until a couple years from now just who will and will not be great, but that doesn't mean we should settle just to fill some holes. If we just want rebounding and defense, we should trade for/buy another top 25 pick and grab Fab Melo. At the top, we should definitely be swinging for a difference maker.

We aren't going anywhere anytime soon with the roster we have, and we are not a free agent destination. If we don't keep hitting big in the draft (Monroe has been a huge start), we're just going to be another perennial late lottery team for the next decade.

 

[cheeno]

I'm kind of souring on Henson, he's old and a tweener. Leonard has all the upside in the world, and I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. That said, there's nothing that says we can't get a difference maker at 9. It is unlikely given history of the 9th pick, but not a foregone conclusion. Perry Jones could be a star PF if he gets his head on straight (similar things were said about Greg Monroe). The SG class may be better than it is getting credit.

We won't know until a couple years from now just who will and will not be great, but that doesn't mean we should settle just to fill some holes. If we just want rebounding and defense, we should trade for/buy another top 25 pick and grab Fab Melo. At the top, we should definitely be swinging for a difference maker.

We aren't going anywhere anytime soon with the roster we have, and we are not a free agent destination. If we don't keep hitting big in the draft (Monroe has been a huge start), we're just going to be another perennial late lottery team for the next decade.

I really like how Indiana built there team. They are a player or two away from making some serious noise.

 

[mhughes0021]

I'm kind of souring on Henson, he's old and a tweener. Leonard has all the upside in the world, and I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. That said, there's nothing that says we can't get a difference maker at 9. It is unlikely given history of the 9th pick, but not a foregone conclusion. Perry Jones could be a star PF if he gets his head on straight (similar things were said about Greg Monroe). The SG class may be better than it is getting credit.

We won't know until a couple years from now just who will and will not be great, but that doesn't mean we should settle just to fill some holes. If we just want rebounding and defense, we should trade for/buy another top 25 pick and grab Fab Melo. At the top, we should definitely be swinging for a difference maker.

We aren't going anywhere anytime soon with the roster we have, and we are not a free agent destination. If we don't keep hitting big in the draft (Monroe has been a huge start), we're just going to be another perennial late lottery team for the next decade.

A couple more years of late lottery picks and no hits in FA means were in the number 1 spot soon....thats the only hope for this franchise. Learn how to tank.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

I really like how Indiana built there team. They are a player or two away from making some serious noise.

I don't really like their strategy myself. Their "best player" is an overpaid jump shooter that can't consistently get his shot off in the playoffs. Hibbert is serviceable but not great. West they only managed to land because he's on the wrong side of 30, overpaid, and was coming off a serious injury. George Hill is a fine role player, but not elite PG, same with Darren Collison. Paul George is their only consistent matchup advantage, and that is due to his height, not an overwhelming skillset/talent.

They are a good team, don't get me wrong, way better than the Pistons right now. But they're cap space is going to be dumped right back into Hibbert/Hill this offseason, and they won't have the money or high picks to land another impact player. What's worse, there is already a precedent of players getting overpaid in Indiana that is likely to inflate Hibbert/Hill's price tag. They have a fine team for not paying the tax, one that can win a good number of games and consistently make the playoffs. But they couldn't beat the Heat without Bosh (keep in mind the only starter not already in or past their prime is Paul George), and there is little evidence to suggest they would have beaten the Celtics or a healthy Chicago squad.

The Indiana model is a "good enough" model, not great. If our ultimate aspirations are second round exits every year, Indiana is a good team to watch. That's not to say we are guaranteed any better results, but I would hope we are striving for more.

 

[cheeno]

I don't really like their strategy myself. Their "best player" is an overpaid jump shooter that can't consistently get his shot off in the playoffs. Hibbert is serviceable but not great. West they only managed to land because he's on the wrong side of 30, overpaid, and was coming off a serious injury. George Hill is a fine role player, but not elite PG, same with Darren Collison. Paul George is their only consistent matchup advantage, and that is due to his height, not an overwhelming skillset/talent.

They are a good team, don't get me wrong, way better than the Pistons right now. But they're cap space is going to be dumped right back into Hibbert/Hill this offseason, and they won't have the money or high picks to land another impact player. What's worse, there is already a precedent of players getting overpaid in Indiana that is likely to inflate Hibbert/Hill's price tag. They have a fine team for not paying the tax, one that can win a good number of games and consistently make the playoffs. But they couldn't beat the Heat without Bosh (keep in mind the only starter not already in or past their prime is Paul George), and there is little evidence to suggest they would have beaten the Celtics or a healthy Chicago squad.

The Indiana model is a "good enough" model, not great. If our ultimate aspirations are second round exits every year, Indiana is a good team to watch. That's not to say we are guaranteed any better results, but I would hope we are striving for more.

First if that is how you assess the Pacers, of which you bring up some good points, I would like to hear how you assess the current Pistons squad (sans homer glasses) because you would be bringing up a lot of the same points with our own guys. On top of that nearly everything you said in paragraph two can apply to Detroit, from: "they won't have the money or high picks to land another impact player. What's worse, there is already a precedent of players getting overpaid in (Detroit)."

Indiana should have beaten the Heat if they consistently pounded the ball inside (which I have no idea why they went away from after Hibbert's big game), and the Pacers for the most part play good old fashioned Pistons defense something I am pining for more than anything since we got old/blown up. Get Hibbert to toughen up and they are a Rasheed Wallace type guy away from making noise in the east (a coach like Larry Brown wouldn't hurt either). Right now in our position I'll take the 'good enough' model even if I'm hoping for better.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

First if that is how you assess the Pacers, of which you bring up some good points, I would like to hear how you assess the current Pistons squad (sans homer glasses) because you would be bringing up a lot of the same points with our own guys. On top of that nearly everything you said in paragraph two can apply to Detroit, from: "they won't have the money or high picks to land another impact player. What's worse, there is already a precedent of players getting overpaid in (Detroit)."

Indiana should have beaten the Heat if they consistently pounded the ball inside (which I have no idea why they went away from after Hibbert's big game), and the Pacers for the most part play good old fashioned Pistons defense something I am pining for more than anything since we got old/blown up. Get Hibbert to toughen up and they are a Rasheed Wallace type guy away from making noise in the east (a coach like Larry Brown wouldn't hurt either). Right now in our position I'll take the 'good enough' model even if I'm hoping for better.

I agree with your statements about Detroit, I admitted as much in my last reply. Joe has run us into the ground the last few years, and we still don't have a superstar on the roster. We aren't a free agent destination and it's likely we have to pay extra just to keep the talent we have (Stuckey/Prince).

As for what Indiana should have done, they didn't. Moreover, there's no way you can give them a pass when Miami didn't even have Bosh most of the series. Hibbert is not a star. He shot under 50% on the season and only 46% in the series. He's huge, but big only goes so far when he has serious fatigue issues. Hibbert can't just dominate.

My main point is that during this rebuild we should be aiming for OKC (unrealistic, but the top of the heap) rather than Indiana/Atlanta (much more possible, but perennial also-rans). Indiana isn't a bad team by any means, but they are also buoyed by playing in the significantly weaker Easter Conference (3-15 in East well below 3-15 in the West). The East actually makes it hard to tank because it is always filled with ridiculously terrible teams. This means it's easier for an East team (just like us) to get stuck in a middle ground of the last playoffs seeds, having no chance to really improve in the draft, but not really being that good of a team.

 

[cheeno]

I agree with your statements about Detroit, I admitted as much in my last reply. Joe has run us into the ground the last few years, and we still don't have a superstar on the roster. We aren't a free agent destination and it's likely we have to pay extra just to keep the talent we have (Stuckey/Prince).

As for what Indiana should have done, they didn't. Moreover, there's no way you can give them a pass when Miami didn't even have Bosh most of the series. Hibbert is not a star. He shot under 50% on the season and only 46% in the series. He's huge, but big only goes so far when he has serious fatigue issues. Hibbert can't just dominate.

My main point is that during this rebuild we should be aiming for OKC (unrealistic, but the top of the heap) rather than Indiana/Atlanta (much more possible, but perennial also-rans). Indiana isn't a bad team by any means, but they are also buoyed by playing in the significantly weaker Easter Conference (3-15 in East well below 3-15 in the West). The East actually makes it hard to tank because it is always filled with ridiculously terrible teams. This means it's easier for an East team (just like us) to get stuck in a middle ground of the last playoffs seeds, having no chance to really improve in the draft, but not really being that good of a team.

OKC? So like Hughes said, learn how to tank. Grab a top 2 pick and hope he is KD. Do you see us getting that type of player any time soon?

Call me naive but I still think a team can be built organically. Don't forget the last Pistons were also perennial also rans, losing the ECF but getting there ring and coming a quarter away from another in a 2 year run. The Lakers were supposed to be unstoppable in the West that year too. There is nothing better for me as a Pistons fan when an organic team puts together a 1 or 2 year magical run. So I guess when I say build like Indiana, I mean the opposite of building with repeated tank jobs and STILL getting good results.

And for the record I like Monroe way more than Hibbert. Who wouldn't.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

OKC? So like Hughes said, learn how to tank. Grab a top 2 pick and hope he is KD. Do you see us getting that type of player any time soon?

Call me naive but I still think a team can be built organically. Don't forget the last Pistons were also perennial also rans, losing the ECF but getting there ring and coming a quarter away from another in a 2 year run. The Lakers were supposed to be unstoppable in the West that year too. There is nothing better for me as a Pistons fan when an organic team puts together a 1 or 2 year magical run. So I guess when I say build like Indiana, I mean the opposite of building with repeated tank jobs and STILL getting good results.

And for the record I like Monroe way more than Hibbert. Who wouldn't.

I wouldn't mind an organically built team by any means. I'm just saying that is crazy hard to do. The 2000s Pistons are an exception that made me delightfully happy, but in almost all cases they are an exception. 2004 was the only champion in the last 30 years to win without a top draft pick, all-NBA type player. LA has had Shaq (1st overall) and Gasol (3rd) every year they won, and Kobe is miles better than any Piston since Isiah. The Spurs have rode Duncan (1st) and Robinson (1st) to all their titles. Boston had Allen (5th) and Garnett (5th) anchoring all-NBA Pierce (10th). Dallas had Dirk (3rd), Miami had Wade (5th) and Shaq again. Bulls had MJ, Rockets had Hakeem, Pistons had Isiah, LA again had Magic and Kareem, Boston again had Bird and more hall of famers.

I get that you need luck. Is OKC where they are if they got Oden instead of Durant? You also need a very smart front office (which we can argue we don't) and preferably an attractive market (LA, Boston, Dallas are huge and rich, Miami has weather and no state income tax). But, at the same time, we could be the next Indiana if we wanted. We could eventually shed Gordon/Villanueva. We could afford good but not great (but preferably not bad like last time) free agents and the talent gap between Detroit and Indiana is not huge as long as we don't botch the draft.

What I'm saying is, we should be shooting for the top. If we don't quite get there at least we can still be Indiana with a little work. But if all we intend/expect to be is Indiana, what if we fall short?

 

[cheeno]

I wouldn't mind an organically built team by any means. I'm just saying that is crazy hard to do. The 2000s Pistons are an exception that made me delightfully happy, but in almost all cases they are an exception. 2004 was the only champion in the last 30 years to win without a top draft pick, all-NBA type player. LA has had Shaq (1st overall) and Gasol (3rd) every year they won, and Kobe is miles better than any Piston since Isiah. The Spurs have rode Duncan (1st) and Robinson (1st) to all their titles. Boston had Allen (5th) and Garnett (5th) anchoring all-NBA Pierce (10th). Dallas had Dirk (3rd), Miami had Wade (5th) and Shaq again. Bulls had MJ, Rockets had Hakeem, Pistons had Isiah, LA again had Magic and Kareem, Boston again had Bird and more hall of famers.

I get that you need luck. Is OKC where they are if they got Oden instead of Durant? You also need a very smart front office (which we can argue we don't) and preferably an attractive market (LA, Boston, Dallas are huge and rich, Miami has weather and no state income tax). But, at the same time, we could be the next Indiana if we wanted. We could eventually shed Gordon/Villanueva. We could afford good but not great (but preferably not bad like last time) free agents and the talent gap between Detroit and Indiana is not huge as long as we don't botch the draft.

What I'm saying is, we should be shooting for the top. If we don't quite get there at least we can still be Indiana with a little work. But if all we intend/expect to be is Indiana, what if we fall short?

ENAS, we are on the same page all around. I agree with everything you said there, I along with i'm sure every other Pistons/NBA fan hates the tanking necessary to move up, but you make a good point. Hopefully we grab a steal at 9, I was on Sullinger if he lasts, but could see swinging for the fences with Perry.