Election Aftermath

[tinselwolverine]

"What about everything the dems said about leftist violence?" is the Trump defense being voiced right now.
New phrase: "Constitutional Cancel Culture"

Yeah, I?m listening also.

It?s still pretty much just kabuki theater, isn?t it? Isn?t a senatorial dismissal still all but a given?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Due process challenges is a pretty good tactic. This thing can't stand up to court of law standards and people mistakenly think it does.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Yeah, I?m listening also.

It?s still pretty much just kabuki theater, isn?t it? Isn?t a senatorial dismissal still all but a given?

Talking heads on the radio say it is. They figure lines were pretty much drawn with the earlier jurisdiction vote. Maybe a few will flip, but not enough to change the outcome.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Due process challenges is a pretty good tactic. This thing can't stand up to court of law standards and people mistakenly think it does.

People in general are stupid - we established that long ago, didn?t we?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Bring the cavalry vs bring the Calvary?! Wow.

 

[tigermud]

The first is a stretch - Trump won the electoral college by a margin of 75,000 votes across Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

Plenty happened/didn’t happen that could have changed a micro thin fraction of US voters that nothing to do with mail in voting - an option that pre-dated 2020 going back to the 19th Century.

States make their own presidential election rules, not the federal government. Seems a little counter-intuitive that a champion of decentralization would be in favor of virtually ANYTHING that takes away from the federalist structure.

States make their own presidential election rules via state legislatures. some of the states by passed that and changed their rules in the name of China virus safety without the legislative approval. I will never believe Biden got more legal votes than Obama, sorry just never will. nobody cares.

 

[Gulo Blue]

This 'fight, fight, fight' supercut is very long. Do people really not get the difference?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Like hilariously long.

 

[tinselwolverine]

States make their own presidential election rules via state legislatures. some of the states by passed that and changed their rules in the name of China virus safety without the legislative approval. I will never believe Biden got more legal votes than Obama, sorry just never will. nobody cares.

Like I?ve said, going into the election I would have preferred Trump, but as usual, my primary feeling was that I didn?t care very much either way, so I didn?t pay a lot of attention to the challenges afterward.

I think I remember hearing reports that the election changes that were made without the legislatures wouldn?t have changed the outcome of the election in those states, or that the courts upheld the changes, or something - the established lawful resolution processes were adhered to and followed, as I understand it.

 

[tigermud]

Like I?ve said, going into the election I would have preferred Trump, but as usual, my primary feeling was that I didn?t care very much either way, so I didn?t pay a lot of attention to the challenges afterward.

I think I remember hearing reports that the election changes that were made without the legislatures wouldn?t have changed the outcome of the election in those states, or that the courts upheld the changes, or something - the established lawful resolution processes were adhered to and followed, as I understand it.

:zzz:

 

[tomdalton22]

States make their own presidential election rules via state legislatures. some of the states by passed that and changed their rules in the name of China virus safety without the legislative approval. I will never believe Biden got more legal votes than Obama, sorry just never will. nobody cares.

I care. Why do you think that Biden couldn't get more votes than Obama?

 

[Gulo Blue]

I think the vote count reflects the partisanship and media pushed fear. Biden didn't get those votes as much as anti-Trump sentiment did. Trump is more disliked than Obama was liked.

 

[tomdalton22]

I think the vote count reflects the partisanship and media pushed fear. Biden didn't get those votes as much as anti-Trump sentiment did. Trump is more disliked than Obama was liked.

The last part of this statement is true. I don't think it was created by the media though...it was created by him being such an asshole.

 

[Michchamp]

And I'll say it's not the stuff we have to assume that I think we need come down hard on. Trump pitched a story for months, he started it before the election, a story that if true would justify extreme action from anyone that thought this nation was worth fighting for. ...t.

the Democrats did the same thing to him for years with the Russiagate bullshit!!!

I got into plenty of heated arguments with this, with Liberal buddies, who would call me a Trump supporter (!!!) for questioning that narrative, and how empty it was. Like OKAY, so Russia is subverting our democracy and is Putin's puppet? Isn't that worth fighting for?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Good question, what happened to Hunter Biden's laptop?

 

[Gulo Blue]

the Democrats did the same thing to him for years with the Russiagate bullshit!!!

I got into plenty of heated arguments with this, with Liberal buddies, who would call me a Trump supporter (!!!) for questioning that narrative, and how empty it was. Like OKAY, so Russia is subverting our democracy and is Putin's puppet? Isn't that worth fighting for?

If anybody invents a time machine, I would love a history book on the Trump Presidency from about 100 years from now.

Although we don't have consensus on what the Civil War was about so I guess I shouldn't expect history books to settle anything either.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I care. Why do you think that Biden couldn't get more votes than Obama?

I made a joke to Tigermud that nobody cares enough what he thinks to cancel him. That?s true, but that?s also true for me and I would guess for you, and for everybody else on this board - no one on this board is important enough for anyone to want to cancel any of us, I would guess.

 

[byco42]

If anybody invents a time machine, I would love a history book on the Trump Presidency from about 100 years from now.

Although we don't have consensus on what the Civil War was about so I guess I shouldn't expect history books to settle anything either.

The Gettysburg Address summarized what the war was about, IMO. What caused it is a different question.

On the analytical surface, it was the secession of the lower southern states, caused by the election of Abraham Lincoln, caused by the Free Soil movement that voted Republican. *

Free Soil is the doctrine that stipulates it's proscribed to bring slaves into the territories and to create new slave states.

Why this mattered to Free Soilers was as much about slavery being a threat to their own freedom as it was for compassion for the slaves themselves. Probably more so.

Anyway, there were enough people on both sides who decided that this issue--slavery in the territories--was worth fighting and dying for. There were already violent regional conflicts in Kansas, Nebraska and Missouri in the 1850s over this issue.

After Lincoln's election, both sides felt that the triumph of the other side would wound or even terminate their own sense of being an American. Each harbored, according to the other, irresolvable mutually contradictory ideals. The fragility of the republic cannot be underestimated, and neither can its "fluxation", which, at once, was a virtue and a danger to Americans throughout its history to that point. Americans were ever optimistic about the future and also wary of it, given that hyper-vigilance was required to maintain it. Also, they were looking over their shoulder at thousands of years of oppressive government as the norm, and the Experiment as the incredibly improbable exception.

So, when slavery and its effects are both considered American and Un-American at the same time by opposing sides and each believes the other is willfully deceiving themselves in an effort to actively subvert American ideals in a desired exchange for tyranny, that's a boiling pot for conflict.

*With grateful acknowledgement to J. Mills Thornton III, professor Emeritus, University of Michigan, as expressed in his course The Ordeal of the Union.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The Gettysburg Address summarized what the war was about, IMO. What caused it is a different question.

On the analytical surface, it was the secession of the lower southern states, caused by the election of Abraham Lincoln, caused by the Free Soil movement that voted Republican. *

Free Soil is the doctrine that stipulates it's proscribed to bring slaves into the territories and to create new slave states.

Why this mattered to Free Soilers was as much about slavery being a threat to their own freedom as it was for compassion for the slaves themselves. Probably more so.

Anyway, there were enough people on both sides who decided that this issue--slavery in the territories--was worth fighting and dying for. There were already violent regional conflicts in Kansas, Nebraska and Missouri in the 1850s over this issue.

After Lincoln's election, both sides felt that the triumph of the other side would wound or even terminate their own sense of being an American. Each harbored, according to the other, irresolvable mutually contradictory ideals. The fragility of the republic cannot be underestimated, and neither can its "fluxation", which, at once, was a virtue and a danger to Americans throughout its history to that point. Americans were ever optimistic about the future and also wary of it, given that hyper-vigilance was required to maintain it. Also, they were looking over their shoulder at thousands of years of oppressive government as the norm, and the Experiment as the incredibly improbable exception.

So, when slavery and its effects are both considered American and Un-American at the same time by opposing sides and each believes the other is willfully deceiving themselves in an effort to actively subvert American ideals in a desired exchange for tyranny, that's a boiling pot for conflict.

*With grateful acknowledgement to J. Mills Thornton III, professor Emeritus, University of Michigan, as expressed in his course The Ordeal of the Union.

So the lesson here is that we should look to professors from the University of Michigan to settle these matters.

 

[byco42]

So the lesson here is that we should look to professors from the University of Michigan to settle these matters.

I only italicized one sentence.