Election Aftermath

[Gulo Blue]

But it is "hard labor" to too many of the young people today who have been raised to believe life is easy

I don't buy this line of thinking though. It's easy to pick out examples to reinforce this idea, but I don't think it's actually true. I see young people hustle when given the chance.

 

[Gulo Blue]

IMO, college loans should only be allowed IF the student is working at a corporation and that corporation is backing the loan.

And arts educations should come in the form of grants from organizations that fund raise for those arts.

The problem with these solutions is they require restricting freedom. We're not a nation that stops people from getting loans to follow their dreams.

 

[Michchamp]

universities are supposed to train people to think, not crank out button-pushing factotems.

People are supposed to study "impractical" things like philosophy, logic, history, psychology, art, literature, etc. You're really not a functional human being if you don't.

Again: even people majoring in "practical" things don't graduate being able to do them. they learn on the job... and a lot of tasks necessary to do the job are specific to the place you work. Universities aren't job training sites.

 

[tinselwolverine]

The electrical and plumbing trades especially are a better financial route to individual success than probably 90% of college degrees. Earn money while learning, eventually earn at least $100 / hr, in some cases $250 / hr. But it is "hard labor" to too many of the young people today who have been raised to believe life is easy, just tell Mommy and Daddy and they will make the bad people stop by going to the teacher / principal / superintendent / politician who has the power to make it stop.

It will take quite awhile for AI and robots to take over the work done by electricians and plumbers. Those are two areas I would encourage any youth to pursue for long-term job security. Hell, robots are more likely to be surgeons before electricians or plumbers.

Are those electricians and plumbers giving blowjobs or getting analized while electritioning and plumbing?

Electrician

Plumber

Here in the San Fernando Valley, da porn Capitol of da erff, a guy playing an electrician or a plumber in a gay porn scene might make $100 - $250 per hour.

 

[Michchamp]

and again... if we don't as a society want to finance people studying and learning at universities (which is really saying ONLY rich kids should get to do that), instead we should stop subsidizing and protecting the student loan industry and lenders. make them bear the burden of recklessly loaning an 18-year-old $250K for a 4 year bachelor of arts that's going to take him 30 years to pay back (if ever)

 

[zyxt9]

I don't buy this line of thinking though. It's easy to pick out examples to reinforce this idea, but I don't think it's actually true. I see young people hustle when given the chance.

Agree that I was kinda cherry-picking there. This tends to come more from the more affluent kids. Those who are less fortunate do tend to have more motivation and drive to become successful as opposed to relying on Mommy and Daddy. Still, each individual deserves the opportunity to be themself and not be grouped with others. That is something I am trying to become better at, so thanks for pointing out I made a poor comment there.

 

[Gulo Blue]

universities are supposed to train people to think, not crank out button-pushing factotems.

People are supposed to study "impractical" things like philosophy, logic, history, psychology, art, literature, etc. You're really not a functional human being if you don't.

Again: even people majoring in "practical" things don't graduate being able to do them. they learn on the job... and a lot of tasks necessary to do the job are specific to the place you work. Universities aren't job training sites.

But how do we decide who gets to do this and at the same time gut the lending system that's got $1.6 trillion dollars of loans floating out there?

Maybe bigger separation between BS/BA degree institutions, different boards of governance and everything. The system that we might want to pay for as a society to train some people how to think shouldn't also try to be the system that does the heavy lifting for industrial and scientific research. (And the system that provides sports entertainment.)

 

[zyxt9]

and again... if we don't as a society want to finance people studying and learning at universities (which is really saying ONLY rich kids should get to do that), instead we should stop subsidizing and protecting the student loan industry and lenders. make them bear the burden of recklessly loaning an 18-year-old $250K for a 4 year bachelor of arts that's going to take him 30 years to pay back (if ever)

Or just stop allowing people to put so much into loans. Earn the money to pay for college outright. For one thing, colleges and universities will take a massive hit in number of students and lose a shitload of money...but that will force them to lower tuition as opposed to constantly raising it, or find other entities to fund their costs. And THAT is the real key...just get businesses to sponsor and support the universities. Do not have Joe Taxpayer foot the bill, put the burden on businesses. They are already doing quite a bit of "Tuition Reimbursement"...stop reimbursing and just fucking pay it upfront!!!

 

[Gulo Blue]

Or just stop allowing people to put so much into loans.

But FREEDOM!!!!!!

 

[Michchamp]

Or just stop allowing people to put so much into loans. Earn the money to pay for college outright. For one thing, colleges and universities will take a massive hit in number of students and lose a shitload of money...but that will force them to lower tuition as opposed to constantly raising it, or find other entities to fund their costs. And THAT is the real key...just get businesses to sponsor and support the universities. Do not have Joe Taxpayer foot the bill, put the burden on businesses. They are already doing quite a bit of "Tuition Reimbursement"...stop reimbursing and just fucking pay it upfront!!!

what businesses are going to sponsor and support universities? why don't they just do that already then?

and who can earn the money to go to college outright?

anyone making money is going to spend it on "normal" stuff... food, drink, shelter, and entertainment. Maybe like 5% of 18-25 year olds would be mature enough to go work 40 hours a week and sock that money away to go to college

You're trying to dance around the reality that if we adopted what you're proposing, the only people at universities would be the ones who have parents that are able to write a check for $30,000 2-3 times a year..

 

[Gulo Blue]

Universities are F-35s. Designed by millions to do several different jobs and the result is bulky, inefficient, and expensive.

 

[tomdalton22]

what businesses are going to sponsor and support universities? why don't they just do that already then?

and who can earn the money to go to college outright?

anyone making money is going to spend it on "normal" stuff... food, drink, shelter, and entertainment. Maybe like 5% of 18-25 year olds would be mature enough to go work 40 hours a week and sock that money away to go to college

You're trying to dance around the reality that if we adopted what you're proposing, the only people at universities would be the ones who have parents that are able to write a check for $30,000 2-3 times a year..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiRGRvE_Wqg

 

[tinselwolverine]

Are those electricians and plumbers giving blowjobs or getting analized while electritioning and plumbing?

Electrician

Plumber

Here in the San Fernando Valley, da porn Capitol of da erff, a guy playing an electrician or a plumber in a gay porn scene might make $100 - $250 per hour.

Here are electricians and plumbers making $100 - $250 per hour.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ1glxX1BiQ

 

[Michchamp]

Universities are F-35s. Designed by millions to do several different jobs and the result is bulky, inefficient, and expensive.

they should go back to just being a guy lecturing people outside, around a bunch of marble columns. And you pay him $5 for a degree if he judges you worthy

 

[Michchamp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiRGRvE_Wqg

I dug a ditch once.

 

[Gulo Blue]

they should go back to just being a guy lecturing people outside, around a bunch of marble columns. And you pay him $5 for a degree if he judges you worthy

Maybe sometimes arrest that guy for corrupting the youths.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I dug a ditch once.

Sure, why not?

Nowadays ditch digging is a skilled construction position; the ditch digger typically needs a certification in operating the ditch digging machine, the trencher.

It?s not unlike being certified in being an electrician or a plumber, and eventually a ditch digger will find them self making $100 per hour or even as much as $250 per hour.

 

[Spartanmack]

The electrical and plumbing trades especially are a better financial route to individual success than probably 90% of college degrees. Earn money while learning, eventually earn at least $100 / hr, in some cases $250 / hr. But it is "hard labor" to too many of the young people today who have been raised to believe life is easy, just tell Mommy and Daddy and they will make the bad people stop by going to the teacher / principal / superintendent / politician who has the power to make it stop.

It will take quite awhile for AI and robots to take over the work done by electricians and plumbers. Those are two areas I would encourage any youth to pursue for long-term job security. Hell, robots are more likely to be surgeons before electricians or plumbers.

Iron workers in NYC are making $115+ an hour right now and there's no shortage of work. I think an inordinate number of iron workers die young though - not necessarily on the job although it is dangerous, but a lot of them don't get to retire for very long. My cousin is a union ironworker in Chicago and his scale isn't that high, but neither is his cost of living.

I've hired a union carpenter to help me frame and drywall my basement on the weekends (I'm actually helping him). He charges me $45 an hour which I think is his union wage and is more than fair - he wants the side work and he's saving me easily $4k vs hiring a local contractor.

The idea that tax dollars these guys pay should go to pay off student loans for people who partied for 4 years and got useless degrees but refuse to do that kind of work is ridiculous.

 

[Spartanmack]

IMO, college loans should only be allowed IF the student is working at a corporation and that corporation is backing the loan. In that way, the student is following a path more equivalent to the Trades, where they are sponsored by a company they feel is a good fit and the company vets their abilities before agreeing to supporting their education. The student learns more hands-on how the Real World works, the company is able to analyze if they made a correct hire, or maybe the student would be a better fit in another area and therefore pursue a different major that fits their specific abilities.

The student is working at a lower initial pay as they are being compensated by the company paying for their education. The understanding is that after finishing their degree they will earn more money. Also, degrees would include credits for working on the job to help reduce the number of credit hours in the classroom.

We should all be capable of recognizing what is taught in college does not translate to what is done in the Real World. Hell, my friend who is a Chemical Engineer I asked how often he uses the higher math he learned to get that degree and he said maybe once a year, and it always requires pulling out the text book or computer search for the correct formula and a bit of time relearning how to do it. IMO we will soon just have AI do any of those calculations. His job is far more about making sure system processes are running correctly, something not covered even once in the college classroom.

What is the current percentage of graduates who work in a field related to their college degree? More often than not they work in a completely different field. So what is their degree worth? Why are companies requiring a BA/BS degree for jobs that have zero need of a degree? Hell, they will even take a BA/BS in a completely unrelated area of study over someone with a decade of experience all because the computerized HR filters will kick out any resume without a BA/BS degree.

you may actually get more buy in from companies with a program like that. I know in the early 2000s every coal company in America was putting kids through mining programs on company sponsored scholarships with the student committing to work for the companies upongraduation but most took the tuition money and went to work somewhere else. Same with banks, accounting and consulting firms putting employees through MBA programs. The companies couldn't sue the kids because no one else would ever take the scholarships knowing they'd get sued.

I know lots of people who walked away from their "loans" from different big 6 accounting firms who weren't pursued for the money at all. One of the guys I worked with at Lehman left before he paid back his loan, negotiated with the firm that poached him to add the full value of the loan to his signing bonus and just pocketed the money. Lehman sent him one letter asking him to pay it back after separating and then he never heard from them again. With a third party loan, they could make sure the lender made every effort to collect from the student without suffering the reputational fallout.

 

[Spartanmack]

And arts educations should come in the form of grants from organizations that fund raise for those arts.

The problem with these solutions is they require restricting freedom. We're not a nation that stops people from getting loans to follow their dreams.

we should be if following those dreams means trillions of dollars worth of loans go bust. Pursuing your dreams at other peoples' expense isn't a right.