Election Aftermath

[Spartanmack]

Rich people have more ways to get around paying any taxes at all. If that ever went away then we wouldnt have a tax/deficit problem anymore. After that then the govt would just need to figure out how to spend the money appropriately instead of giving it all to the military.

I always thought it funny when rich people complain about the nation being in a deficit....ask them how much taxes they pay and it quickly shuts them up.

that's not really accurate - high earners complain about taxes all the time and they should. The top 1% of earners pay 37% of all federal income taxes, the top 5% pay 58% and the top 20% pay 83.9%. The middle class picks up most of the rest while poor pay very little to no income taxes.

What you're saying may be true for a small percentage of really wealthy people who have different types of income that receive favorable treatment, and some tax cheats. You can get rid of a lot of that by getting rid of carried interest, which is complete bull shit and should have been gotten rid of years ago. Scrap the corporate tax and tax dividends and capital gains at the same rate as income and you get rid of the rest of it (except the tax cheats, that's obviously an enforcement issue, not a tax rate problem). But its simply not true to say the rich don't pay their fair share because a small minority benefit from a poorly written tax code. It's indisputable that the overwhelming majority of high earners pay the taxes they owe and they pay the bulk of the tax burden.

 

[tomdalton22]

that's not really accurate - high earners complain about taxes all the time and they should. The top 1% of earners pay 37% of all federal income taxes, the top 5% pay 58% and the top 20% pay 83.9%. The middle class picks up most of the rest while poor pay very little to no income taxes.

in 2021 about 57% of households didn't pay any federal income tax. I am sure a large portion of those households got tax "credits" and actually were a tax burden, paying a "negative percentage" due to the credits.

 

[Spartanmack]

in 2021 about 57% of households didn't pay any federal income tax. I am sure a large portion of those households got tax "credits" and actually were a tax burden, paying a "negative percentage" due to the credits.

definitely. I think it was during Obama's 2nd term that we reached the 50% level of American households receiving at least one form of assistance from the federal government.

 

[mhughes0021]

definitely. I think it was during Obama's 2nd term that we reached the 50% level of American households receiving at least one form of assistance from the federal government.

It should be simple math....what if everyone paid a flat rate of 18%. How much more money would US make annually? Instead of 50% not paying anything.

 

[Spartanmack]

It should be simple math....what if everyone paid a flat rate of 18%. How much more money would US make annually? Instead of 50% not paying anything.

I wouldn't be opposed to it, but most flat tax proponents peg the number at or near 15%. Can't remember who it was but there was a guy seeking the Dem nomination in the mid to late 80s proposing 14%, Rand Paul proposed a 14.5% flat tax in 2015.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I wouldn't be opposed to it, but most flat tax proponents peg the number at or near 15%. Can't remember who it was but there was a guy seeking the Dem nomination in the mid to late 80s proposing 14%, Rand Paul proposed a 14.5% flat tax in 2015.

I remember Jerry Brown did that when seeking the Democratic nomination 1992.

A search engine search brings up a whole lot of articles critical of him for it.

 

[Spartanmack]

I remember Jerry Brown did that when seeking the Democratic nomination 1992.

A search engine search brings up a whole lot of articles critical of him for it.

Yes, it was Jerry Brown - I thought it was Gary Hart in 1988 but the interweb said otherwise, then I wasn't able to find who it was with any of my search attempts - probably because I was focused on '84 & '88.

Yeah, you can't run on a flat tax platform as a Democrat because it doesn't punish successful people enough.

 

[mhughes0021]

Yes, it was Jerry Brown - I thought it was Gary Hart in 1988 but the interweb said otherwise, then I wasn't able to find who it was with any of my search attempts - probably because I was focused on '84 & '88.

Yeah, you can't run on a flat tax platform as a Democrat because it doesn't punish successful people enough.

And you cant as a republican cause rich people and corporations that are accustomed to not paying any taxes will crush you.

 

[Michchamp]

And you cant as a republican cause rich people and corporations that are accustomed to not paying any taxes will crush you.

taxation is theft, right?

 

[tomdalton22]

And you cant as a republican cause rich people and corporations that are accustomed to not paying any taxes will crush you.

corporations don't vote, and the number of rich people that don't pay taxes pales in comparison to rich people that pay more than 15% in federal income tax. I'm not even rich and I would benefit greatly with a 15% flat tax.

 

[Michchamp]

corporations don't vote, and the number of rich people that don't pay taxes pales in comparison to rich people that pay more than 15% in federal income tax. I'm not even rich and I would benefit greatly with a 15% flat tax.

The problem is that the actual rich - like the top 0.1% in income - have convinced schlubs making over $100K that "punishing the rich" by raising the top marginal rates back to where they were in the 1950's, or ending the carried interest loophole will affect them just as badly ... when in reality these are things that would by definition not affect the vast majority of Americans. Or schlubs. Or even the mythical "job creators" who supposedly get tax breaks and generously use the money to hire more people to work for them at decent salaries and wages, and not, say use the windfall to buy a bigger yacht, or replace the marble floor and columns in the foyer of their 2nd home with an even newer marble floor and columns. (like yeah... right...)

 

[tinselwolverine]

The problem is that the actual rich - like the top 0.1% in income - have convinced schlubs making over $100K that "punishing the rich" by raising the top marginal rates back to where they were in the 1950's, or ending the carried interest loophole will affect them just as badly ... when in reality these are things that would by definition not affect the vast majority of Americans. Or schlubs. Or even the mythical "job creators" who supposedly get tax breaks and generously use the money to hire more people to work for them at decent salaries and wages, and not, say use the windfall to buy a bigger yacht, or replace the marble floor and columns in the foyer of their 2nd home with an even newer marble floor and columns. (like yeah... right...)

The Mythical Job Creators.

This would have been a lit name for a punk rock band in the 80s.

Except it was the 80s and nobody was calling anything lit yet.

 

[Spartanmack]

And you cant as a republican cause rich people and corporations that are accustomed to not paying any taxes will crush you.

I'm talking about abolishing the corporate tax, and even if you had corporate taxes at 15%, that's much lower than what they are now. Why would corporations crush a candidate over that? And again, it's a very small minority of uber wealthy that don't pay taxes and the ones that do pay the lowered carried interest rates are paying more than 15%. I think it's a pretty easy sell. The biggest opposition will come from leftist idiots who want to penalize people for being successful.

 

[Spartanmack]

The problem is that the actual rich - like the top 0.1% in income - have convinced schlubs making over $100K that "punishing the rich" by raising the top marginal rates back to where they were in the 1950's, or ending the carried interest loophole will affect them just as badly ... when in reality these are things that would by definition not affect the vast majority of Americans. Or schlubs. Or even the mythical "job creators" who supposedly get tax breaks and generously use the money to hire more people to work for them at decent salaries and wages, and not, say use the windfall to buy a bigger yacht, or replace the marble floor and columns in the foyer of their 2nd home with an even newer marble floor and columns. (like yeah... right...)

blah, blah, blah, blah. literally none of this is true. The average tax payer is all for getting rid of carried interest - it's establishment Rs & Ds that keep it in place. Players on your team were the ones that blocked it from the most recent tax bill (the "Inflation Reduction Act") that not a single Republican supported. Also, no serious person is advocating for the absurdly stupid tax rates from the 1950s that almost nobody paid, even the super rich because of all the ridiculous loopholes and exceptions.

 

[Spartanmack]

Hmmm, after campaigning hard for the administration's Inflation Reduction Act, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc learn the Inflation Reduction Act is expected to have little to no effect on inflation. News that was actually out BEFORE the bill was passed and signed, when they were out trumpeting it's obvious, nearly immediate inflation reducing features. This is a real shocker. Who else is surprised by this?

 

[tinselwolverine]

The Mythical Job Creators.

This would have been a lit name for a punk rock band in the 80s.

Except it was the 80s and nobody was calling anything lit yet.

Also, my friend, you do realize in your hyperbolic litany about mythical job creators, you literally described the creation of jobs in yacht building and marble tile and column manufacturing and installation industries, don?t you?

It?s the rising tide that raises all boats.

 

[Spartanmack]

Also, my friend, you do realize in your hyperbolic litany about mythical job creators, you literally described the creation of jobs in yacht building and marble tile and column manufacturing and installation industries, don?t you?

It?s the rising tide that raises all boats.

robots do those jobs.

 

[tinselwolverine]

robots do those jobs.

Well, human job holders build robots then.

Unless the robots are built by other robots.

At some point, there?s got to be human job holders involved in the process.

Doesn?t Biden say the more people have jobs at this time and any other point in history of the country?

 

[Michchamp]

Also, my friend, you do realize in your hyperbolic litany about mythical job creators, you literally described the creation of jobs in yacht building and marble tile and column manufacturing and installation industries, don?t you?

It?s the rising tide that raises all boats.

unfortunately, by definition the 0.1% only includes... 0.1% of the population.

that's only a few hundred thousand, and that presumably includes kids, wives, and other dependants, i.e. there are not 330,000 people earning 0.1% wages.

While they presumably do improve employment statistics at yacht builders' and marble-tile floorers' firms when they receive windfalls, it's not enough to really "raise the boat" for the other 327,000,000 who are now either facing cuts to government benefits or services in some way to give the 0.1% their tax cut, or paying more themselves in other taxes to make up for it.


Or were you joking? IDK, it's so hard to tell sometimes...

 

[tinselwolverine]

unfortunately, by definition the 0.1% only includes... 0.1% of the population.

that's only a few hundred thousand, and that presumably includes kids, wives, and other dependants, i.e. there are not 330,000 people earning 0.1% wages.

While they presumably do improve employment statistics at yacht builders' and marble-tile floorers' firms when they receive windfalls, it's not enough to really "raise the boat" for the other 327,000,000 who are now either facing cuts to government benefits or services in some way to give the 0.1% their tax cut, or paying more themselves in other taxes to make up for it.


Or were you joking? IDK, it's so hard to tell sometimes...

Our economic systems doesn?t raise all boats equally, but it raises all boats more than the systems like say China has, or Russia has, or India or middle eastern countries have really pretty much every else - yes, the western capitalist democracies that also embrace human rights and various degrees of liberty are better than any other system on earth - or as I like to say, the worst except for every other one.

Are people in any of the places I named who are not part of the oligarchy better off than people in the United States who are not part of the oligarchy?