Election

[Michchamp]

I've already made the point that I'm not trying to prove there was or was not voter fraud that did or did not sway the outcome. Rather, I'm disproving the outrageous claim that there is no evidence to support the claims of widespread voter fraud.

I wondered where the goalposts went...

 

[Spartanmack]

That's just my point. I didn't vote for Biden expecting any of the things mentioned above. I voted for Biden, hoping Trump would lose, in the hopes that the GOP would return to it's roots.

I want Republicans to come to their senses. I want some pre Tea Party, pre Trump, GOP leadership. Not whatever bastardized version exists today.

I'm generally a social liberal, fiscal conservative and in today's extreme two party system I don't have a home. At least in the past I could choose which parent to visit on the weekends. Now I'm just stuck at home with my drunk mother (Dems) while Dad (GOP) is off smoking crack and gambling all of our money away.

the tea party was the best thing to happen to the Republican party since Reagan. They were the ones who were for self governance, limited federal government, cutting spending, etc, etc. They were the first real sign that the status quo was at risk and they had to marginalized - they were the first victims of this constant barrage of accusations of white supremacy, misogyny, anti-LGTBQ, fascism, etc. Given it's effectiveness, it's been used on literally any non-Dem since - so much so that people are starting to realize what an overused bullshit tactic it is.

Also, the idea that it's the Republicans are the ones on crack who are gambling all our money away while the Dems are just drunk is certifiably crazy. We're not the ones screaming medicare for all, free college, student loan forgiveness, etc, etc.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I thought we weren't going down this rabbit hole. why are you nit picking, I mean laser focused on the 97% number and not the fact that 173k AV in Detroit haven't been and possibly can't be proved to have come from a registered voter? Is it because of point 2 in your prior post? Probably not, more likely it's because the 97% can't be proved so you're going to obsess over it in order to avoid the more significant issue of the unaccounted for AVs and the eyewitness reports from people who were there observing what they claim was a coordinated effort of cheating. but go ahead, ask me again for a source for the 97%.

I said I'm not going down the rabbit hole, meaning I'm not going to try to figure out how it came to be or what it means, if you won't say where it came from. I've made it clear I'm not asking for proof or anything; I just want the context you've got.

 

[Spartanmack]

I wondered where the goalposts went...

project much? you're going down the rabbit hole with Gulo over a minor nit he said he wasn't going down the rabbit hole over. You both refuse to address the issue of the AVs not verified as coming from a registered voter and I'm the one moving the goal posts? LOLOLOLOL, it's amazing how many times I can call you out for doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing and then walking away and pretending it never happened.

 

[Gulo Blue]

project much? you're going down the rabbit hole with Gulo over a minor nit he said he wasn't going down the rabbit hole over. You both refuse to address the issue of the AVs not verified as coming from a registered voter and I'm the one moving the goal posts? LOLOLOLOL, it's amazing how many times I can call you out for doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing and then walking away and pretending it never happened.

"Minor nit"? I'm not making a fine or technical distinction between two things. I'm asking where you got a number.

 

[Spartanmack]

I said I'm not going down the rabbit hole, meaning I'm not going to try to figure out how it came to be or what it means, if you won't say where it came from. I've made it clear I'm not asking for proof or anything; I just want the context you've got.

And I'm telling you it's a part of hearsay evidence from eyewitnesses, and probably the least most important issue those witnesses raised in the challenges of the count. But like always, you're hanging on to a minor nit as if you can prove it's not actually 97%, the alleged fraud hinges on that one bit of information, and without it the claims completely fall apart.

 

[Gulo Blue]

And I'm telling you it's a part of hearsay evidence from eyewitnesses, and probably the least most important issue those witnesses raised in the challenges of the count. But like always, you're hanging on to a minor nit as if you can prove it's not actually 97%, the alleged fraud hinges on that one bit of information, and without it the claims completely fall apart.

Are you a judge or a lawyer working the case?



How did you become aware of this eyewitness testimony?

 

[Gulo Blue]

It?s great, should have started there a long time ago. Mostly political but that may eventually change after all the current chaos. It?s more like the twitter replacement, for a better FB replacement people are starting to make their way over to MeWe

Are there ads? Do you think it's a money making endeavor?

 

[Spartanmack]

"Minor nit"? I'm not making a fine or technical distinction between two things. I'm asking where you got a number.

yes, minor nit. So minor it's barely even relevant. Whether it's true, close to true or can't be proved true or false, it's insignificant compared to the issue of why 173k votes weren't shown to have come from a registered voter.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Of those 173k AVs, almost 150k showed up in one dump at 4am of which it's been reported that 97% went for Biden - that's virtually impossible, Trump could probably get more than 3% of the Chinese Communist Party to vote for him if they were allowed.

yes, minor nit. So minor it's barely even relevant.

Doesn't sound very minor to me. If I had argued it was a minor point rather than asked you where it came from, do you think you would have agreed with me?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Oh God? What an Orwellian, dystopian nightmare? Not only are we not going to be freed from the annoying voice of Donald Trump, but we are also going to be saddled or I should say resaddled ? with the annoying voice of Mr. Ed face John Kerry.

 

[Spartanmack]

Are you a judge or a lawyer working the case?



How did you becomes aware of this eyewitness testimony?

don't recall saying it was testimony, but if I did, good job finding another pedantic nit. Well not really since according to this Bing search, testimony is any "formal written or spoken statement, especially one given in a court of law."

Anyway, it's all pretty widely available on the internet machine if you bother checking. Byco posted an affidavit earlier in this thread that details some of the allegations from election monitors.

 

[byco42]

Oh God… What an Orwellian, dystopian nightmare… Not only are we not going to be freed from the annoying voice of Donald Trump, but we are also going to be saddled or I should say resaddled – with the annoying voice of Mr. Ed face John Kerry.

This is how I picture Kerry.

 

[sggatecl]

This is how I picture Kerry.

Oh God? What an Orwellian, dystopian nightmare? Not only are we not going to be freed from the annoying voice of Donald Trump, but we are also going to be saddled or I should say resaddled ? with the annoying voice of Mr. Ed face John Kerry.

ah yes, the George W. Bush administration famously believed in small government, and no deficit spending.

They didn't create a huge, new, bloated federal bureaucracy, push for disastrous foreign wars, or dramatically extend government collection of our data and private communications.

Hey look, it's the guy I voted for Bush Jr over. What a coincidence!

 

[sggatecl]

Also, the idea that it's the Republicans are the ones on crack who are gambling all our money away while the Dems are just drunk is certifiably crazy. We're not the ones screaming medicare for all, free college, student loan forgiveness, etc, etc.

I know right? They can't get their spending under control even WITHOUT those cool fuckin programs.

Under Trump the deficit went up each year. There is/was no sign or trend that suggests otherwise. Him not giving the country a 2nd Covid stimulus is not proof that he was turning a new leaf. It's just means he doesn't spend on stimulus packages like a Democrat. That's nothing to be proud of.

 

[Michchamp]

To be fair, I read that poverty went down more under Trump's COVID Relief Package than it did under anything Obama ever did.

doing a duck-duck-go search for it... but can't find a link. I
'm going to explore this further. Turns out just handing people cash is better than the "means testing" bullshit that went on under Obama, where you needed to pass through all sorts of qualifications in order to receive government aid (unless you were a too-big-to-fail bank, oil company, or defense contractor).

 

[Michchamp]

But generally... yeah.

I can't take anyone who complains about budget deficits seriously, who also supports George W. Bush, or thought he did a decent, or even average job as president. They pretty much just lit money on fire (or dumped pallets of it out of a C-130 over Iraq) from 2001-2009.

 

[Gulo Blue]

But generally... yeah.

I can't take anyone who complains about budget deficits seriously, who also supports George W. Bush, or thought he did a decent, or even average job as president. They pretty much just lit money on fire (or dumped pallets of it out of a C-130 over Iraq) from 2001-2009.

I think the 90% of his 2nd term was turning it around, but for the most part, I think pretty much all republicans have made it worse and dems have made it better in my lifetime.

 

[Michchamp]

I think the 90% of his 2nd term was turning it around, but for the most part, I think pretty much all republicans have made it worse and dems have made it better in my lifetime.

Obama (& Biden) fought to keep the Bush Jr. tax cuts. The Democrats controlled the House and Senate for at least his first two years in office (so there's no partisan political excuse).

I'm pretty sure Obama didn't do much, if anything, about our insane levels of defense spending. And he definitely didn't try to undo anything Bush Jr. did... I still don't understand why Republican guys hated him so much. Politically, he was very good for them... essentially made everything they wanted to do completely bi-partisan.

It's basically just one party... the Republicans push to pass wealth to the top 1% by all sorts of dirty tricks... The Democrats do too, they just find a woman, a black guy or a gay guy to do it.

 

[Spartanmack]

I know right? They can't get their spending under control even WITHOUT those cool fuckin programs.

Under Trump the deficit went up each year. There is/was no sign or trend that suggests otherwise. Him not giving the country a 2nd Covid stimulus is not proof that he was turning a new leaf. It's just means he doesn't spend on stimulus packages like a Democrat. That's nothing to be proud of.

Trump cut taxes and renegotiated bad trade deals in his first term which spurred investment and would eventually bring high quality jobs back to our shores. He spent money upgrading our military, securing the border and on other short term items. Not that I agree with it, but increased spending temporarily to lessen the impact of tax cuts isn't the same thing as offering tax payer funded healthcare and higher education in perpetuity. We will probably never know, but hopefully during a second administration he could have addressed the expense side of the income statement.

Not giving a second COVID stimulus is proof that he's more fiscally responsible than the people who wanted to have a second round of COVID stimulus that was 3x bigger than the first stimulus.