Election

[Spartanmack]

To be fair, I read that poverty went down more under Trump's COVID Relief Package than it did under anything Obama ever did.

doing a duck-duck-go search for it... but can't find a link. I
'm going to explore this further. Turns out just handing people cash is better than the "means testing" bullshit that went on under Obama, where you needed to pass through all sorts of qualifications in order to receive government aid (unless you were a too-big-to-fail bank, oil company, or defense contractor).

there was an income limit in order to receive stimulus money under the CARES Act.

 

[biggunsbob]

Obama (& Biden) fought to keep the Bush Jr. tax cuts. The Democrats controlled the House and Senate for at least his first two years in office (so there's no partisan political excuse).

I'm pretty sure Obama didn't do much, if anything, about our insane levels of defense spending. And he definitely didn't try to undo anything Bush Jr. did... I still don't understand why Republican guys hated him so much. Politically, he was very good for them... essentially made everything they wanted to do completely bi-partisan.

It's basically just one party... the Republicans push to pass wealth to the top 1% by all sorts of dirty tricks... The Democrats do too, they just find a woman, a black guy or a gay guy to do it.

Obama and Biden only had the Senate for 4 months. The timeline is here on the numbers and who died and who replaced who, and what really happened. The McConnell blockaded of Obama. Oh well it was years ago. Nothing ever changes. Democrats having to clean up a Republican mess.

https://www.beaconjournal.com/article/20120909/NEWS/309099447

 

[tinselwolverine]

But generally... yeah.

I can't take anyone who complains about budget deficits seriously, who also supports George W. Bush, or thought he did a decent, or even average job as president. They pretty much just lit money on fire (or dumped pallets of it out of a C-130 over Iraq) from 2001-2009.

No argument here, my lib friend.

No argument here.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Obama and Biden only had the Senate for 4 months. The timeline is here on the numbers and who died and who replaced who, and what really happened. The McConnell blockaded of Obama. Oh well it was years ago. Nothing ever changes. Democrats having to clean up a Republican mess.

https://www.beaconjournal.com/article/20120909/NEWS/309099447

This is funny.

Never heard of the Akron Beacon Journal, kind of sounds like a good name for the normal daily newspaper - or for what I guess would have been the normal daily newspaper once upon a time - in a medium sized Midwestern town where they make tires like Akron.

So whomever is the scribe of this - it appears to be an editorial - has selected for him or herself the moniker of The Reverend.

Okay.

Different, but okay.

I have never heard of a majority of either house of Congress used in conjunction with the term ?total control.?

I have no idea what that?s supposed to mean, or what the difference is supposed to be.

The Reverend seems to think that a sixty percent majority is some magic number, I guess back in the day it could block a filibuster or something; that word has come up during this election cycle; I don?t know how relevant such a percentage majority it is now, nor how relevant it was back in the first two years of Obama.

According to The Reverend?s own chronology of the minute changes in the balance in the Senate during the first two years, the Dems always maintained a significant majority in that body; they got ObamaCare through the Senate during the first two years with the majority that they had, how much more ?total control? does this guy (or lady) The Reverend want?

 

[Michchamp]

there was an income limit in order to receive stimulus money under the CARES Act.

it wasn't much of a limit; it still paid out to a large number of Americans

contrast this with the extremely burdensome Obamacare enrollment process. Or how few people qualified for mortgage relief under his recovery plan in 2008.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm disproving stuff.
I'm not being evasive -you're evasive.
Why do you even want a source?
You are too focused on what I said, that's nit picking.
What I said is so minor, it's barely relevant, it's insignificant.
I ran out of gas.
I had a flat tire...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE

 

[Spartanmack]

I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm disproving stuff.

Almost right - you've taken a page from your buddy. You have materially misrepresented what I said so you can trivialize and argue against it. I'm definitely not trying to prove there was fraud. I AM disproving the lie that there's no evidence of potential voter fraud because there is plenty.

I'm not being evasive -you're evasive.
Why do you even want a source? You are too focused on what I said, that's nit picking.

You clearly are being evasive and hyper focused on a minor nit and again misrepresenting my argument. You're not too focused on what I said - you're ignoring the most significant facts and assertions and focusing on something you think will discredit those without addressing them.

What I said is so minor, it's barely relevant, it's insignificant.

The point you're focused on is minor but you won't let it go because you can't dismiss the major points by directly addressing them.

I ran out of gas.
I had a flat tire...

not a problem, I can call out your bullshit all day long.

 

[byco42]

Hey, Joe Biden wants to “heal and unite America and the world” over here and you guys ain’t helping.

 

[Spartanmack]

it wasn't much of a limit; it still paid out to a large number of Americans

contrast this with the extremely burdensome Obamacare enrollment process. Or how few people qualified for mortgage relief under his recovery plan in 2008.

careful with these claims of yours - keep it up and gulo will be hounding you for a couple pages for a source that indicates it wasn't much of a limit and a large number of Americans did in fact receive a payout.

Anyway, a lot of people lost work and they rushed to get the stimulus out, hard to say if it was too high or not.

ok, contrast it with Obamacare but at least for once be honest. The reason the Obamacare enrollment was burdensome was because it didn't work. It was created by a bunch of incompetents who barely tested it and lead to people spending hours and hours on the phone trying to get enrolled. It was a spectacular failure. I can personally tell you it wasn't a very effective means test. I applied for it in 2017 after being laid off and losing my coverage. Because they only considered income (I had none for all of 2016) and no other sources of liquidity, we only qualified for Medicaid rather than a smaller subsidy to buy private insurance. I even tried to voluntarily take a less expensive smaller subsidy and leave Medicaid dollars to those who really need it, but the State said no - it was Medicaid, pay full freight for private insurance or go without and pay cash for medical expenses. So it's not a more rigorous means test, it's a moronic, poorly functioning, inflexible, bureaucratic, fubar, process.

 

[Gulo Blue]

careful with these claims of yours - keep it up and gulo will be hounding you for a couple pages for a source that indicates it wasn't much of a limit and a large number of Americans did in fact receive a payout.

Nah. Limit was like $75k/$150k for individuals/couples. Saying that a large number of Americans are under that bar is not remotely like claiming that a huge 4am vote dump was 97% for Biden.

 

[Spartanmack]

Nah. Limit was like $75k/$150k for individuals/couples. Saying that a large number of Americans are under that bar is not remotely like claiming that a huge 4am vote dump was 97% for Biden.

I think we both know the biggest difference is the author of the posts.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I think we both know the biggest difference is the author of the posts.

It's really not.

 

[Michchamp]

Almost right - you've taken a page from your dopey buddy, ,MC. You have materially misrepresented what I said so you can trivialize and argue against it. I'm definitely not trying to prove there was fraud. I AM disproving the lie that there's no evidence of potential voter fraud because there is plenty.



You clearly are being evasive and hyper focused on a minor nit and again misrepresenting my argument. You're not too focused on what I said - you're ignoring the most significant facts and assertions and focusing on something you think will discredit those without addressing them.



The point you're focused on is minor but you won't let it go because you can't dismiss the major points by directly addressing them.



Simply not true, I can call out your bullshit all day long.

you're really going to do a line-by-line rebuttal to a Blues Brothers clip?

Just admit you either pulled these claims out of your ass, or cribbed them from some Right Wing site you've denied reading like Alex Jones, and move on. It would actually help your credibility here...

careful with these claims of yours - keep it up and gulo will be hounding you for a couple pages for a source that indicates it wasn't much of a limit and a large number of Americans did in fact receive a payout.

...

sigh...

Here's one link, and it's from UChicago, so even your dumb ass should be able to accept it: New Poverty Measure Confirms Coronavirus-Driven Federal Stimulus Measures Were Effective:

The economists? estimates ... show poverty declined shortly after the start of the pandemic. They find that the poverty rate fell by 2.3 percentage points from 10.9 percent in the months leading up to the COVID-19 pandemic (January and February) to 8.6 percent in the two most recent months (April and May).
​

guessing UChicago & Brookings are going to scrub these results to downplay the fact that giving people money is the only effective way our government can reduce poverty now.

and all the means-tested bullshit, "you qualify for $$$ IF you start a business and invest a minimum of XYZ in ABC, AND you are a minority, and gay," is ineffecitve. At this point, means-testing should be understood to be the way both political parties ensure they do nothing to help regular Americans while pretending to help regular Americans.

i.e. Obamacare being difficult to enroll in and use is a feature not a bug.

Here's another link: The CARES Act Could Reduce Poverty to Pre-Crisis Levels if Access is Adequate:

"In response to rapidly rising unemployment rates, Congress passed the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act, which included nearly $500 billion in direct income transfers for families across the country. In this brief, we apply new forecasting methods to project the effect of the CARES Act?s income transfers on poverty rates using the Supplemental Poverty Measure (SPM) framework"
​

Direct income transfers = "here's a check, go spend the money, which will support businesses, and we will tax anyway, so it goes back in the coffers"

The federal government needs to start doling out cash again. Building things with it (bridges, rails, ports) is even better, but just burying money and paying people to dig it up would be more productive than what Pelosi & McConnell deliver under this "neoliberal" approach, which is basically nothing.

 

[Michchamp]

Nah. Limit was like $75k/$150k for individuals/couples. Saying that a large number of Americans are under that bar is not remotely like claiming that a huge 4am vote dump was 97% for Biden.

I probably should've just wrote this...

 

[Spartanmack]

This is funny.

Never heard of the Akron Beacon Journal, kind of sounds like a good name for the normal daily newspaper - or for what I guess would have been the normal daily newspaper once upon a time - in a medium sized Midwestern town where they make tires like Akron.

So whomever is the scribe of this - it appears to be an editorial - has selected for him or herself the moniker of The Reverend.

Okay.

Different, but okay.

I have never heard of a majority of either house of Congress used in conjunction with the term ?total control.?

I have no idea what that?s supposed to mean, or what the difference is supposed to be.

The Reverend seems to think that a sixty percent majority is some magic number, I guess back in the day it could block a filibuster or something; that word has come up during this election cycle; I don?t know how relevant such a percentage majority it is now, nor how relevant it was back in the first two years of Obama.

According to The Reverend?s own chronology of the minute changes in the balance in the Senate during the first two years, the Dems always maintained a significant majority in that body; they got ObamaCare through the Senate during the first two years with the majority that they had, how much more ?total control? does this guy (or lady) The Reverend want?

also, someone needs to tell the good Rev, the term is "Cloture" not "Closure" (he even capitalized and put it in quotes). I believe "Closure" is more commonly used a term for sleeping with a woman you broke up with more than a month ago.

Anyway, it's a nice attempt to make excuses for why Obama couldn't do in 8 years what Trump did in less than 4 in terms of ending wars but in the end, it falls well short. Basically, it a garbage editorial.

 

[Spartanmack]

you're really going to do a line-by-line rebuttal to a Blues Brothers clip?

No, and if you look closely you'll see I didn't include the clip or comment on it. Also, I find it rather amusing that you're talking about credibility given you have none and the rest of your post is just more of your drivel that further proves you don't. Half of it is tinfoil hat conspiracy nonsense and the rest is a bunch of nonsense that contradicts other nonsense in the same post. This one is bob level unhinged, hysterical, nonsensical ranting. Oh, and this could literally be the dumbest thing you've ever posted:

... the fact that giving people money is the only effective way our government can reduce poverty now.

 

[tigermud]

Trump didn’t want it to come down to a pardon but he had no choice on account of that dumb ass judge. Said it long ago and will say it again what they did to general Flynn was and still is inexcusable!

Justice still needs to be served to those that orchestrated that. UNACCEPTABLE!

 

[JScottWriter]

Trump didn?t want it to come down to a pardon but he had no choice on account of that dumb ass judge. Said it long ago and will say it again what they did to general Flynn was and still is inexcusable!

Justice still needs to be served to those that orchestrated that. UNACCEPTABLE!

Someone made him lie to the FBI? Someone made him under oath say that he lied to the FBI?

 

[tigermud]

Someone made him lie to the FBI? Someone made him under oath say that he lied to the FBI?

What they did was unacceptable. I?m not going to debate this with you or anyone else. May justice yet be served and god bless America.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15997/michael-flynn-innocent

 

[Thumb]

What they did was unacceptable. I?m not going to debate this with you or anyone else. May justice yet be served and god bless America.

What they did was unacceptable period, or because they did it to a Trump crony?

Because law enforcement quite often leans on family and or friends to get the accused to make a deal, Flynn lied under oath, that is a crime; period. He's not a patriot, he's a liar.

I'll be waiting for your threads on the injustice that was/is served to thousands charged with drug crimes, when they threaten to confiscate the accused parents homes, cars, put them in prison, etc. to get them to plead guilty.

It's too bad Trump will have nobody to pardon him after January 21st