Executive order and Business ties

[Michchamp]

Son of a bitch.

A French Canadian White Supremacist Mass Murdering Terrorist.

That's some shit ya don't hear about every day.

don't forget to add that he was a big fan of Trump, and a right wing troll online.

an all-around awful person.

 

[Spartanmack]

you finally got one! Hillarious that Trump isn't really a Republican, certainly not a conservative, but hey, now you got one to put up against all the lefty mass murderers (loughner, holmes, mateen, roof, etc, etc). It's funny that politics matter when the guy is a Trump supporter but not when shooters vote or support Dem ideals.

 

[mhughes0021]

so has the OP been completely debunked yet? I don't recall seeing anyone post this but the list of the 7 countries from which immigration has been temporarily halted has nothing to do with Trumps business interests. Turns out the list came from the Obama Administration. True, Obama didn't have the balls or maybe the audacity to halt immigration, but they identified these 7 countries as dangerous states with insufficient resources to provide information on citizens seeking asylum in the US. Obama did put visa restrictions on all 7 countries which is odd because you never heard a peep out of all the lefties losing their shit about the temporary ban.

Why do they make it so easy?

Yup when in doubt blame obama. We get it. ....8 years of doing it so when people are upset with a decision you as president makes. ...just blame obama. Don't do any of your own research. Don't stick up for your own decision. Don't add any countries you yourself think are dangerous or have contributed to killing americans. ...when in doubt...just do what Obama would have done. You just got done bashing everything obama is and had accomplished....so let's start of your presidency by just following his lead and blame him for your decision and fucked up execution. Yeah, makes perfect sense. ...said no one ever.

 

[Spartanmack]

so has the OP been completely debunked yet? I don't recall seeing anyone post this but the list of the 7 countries from which immigration has been temporarily halted has nothing to do with Trumps business interests. Turns out the list came from the Obama Administration. True, Obama didn't have the balls or maybe the audacity to halt immigration, but they identified these 7 countries as dangerous states with insufficient resources to provide information on citizens seeking asylum in the US. Obama did put visa restrictions on all 7 countries which is odd because you never heard a peep out of all the lefties losing their shit about the temporary ban.

Why do they make it so easy?


Is anyone else seeing really weird stuff happen on the site tonight? I don't know if it's my browser, PC or the site but I'm not seeing posts I submit when I refresh and threads aren't moving to the top to show they were the most recently updated threads. I'm also not seeing other people's posts until after I've refreshed several times and it's obvious they aren't new because of the sequence they appear or the timestamps. I've tried copying and re-pasting posts, deleting and re-entering, editing other posts in the thread but something very odd is happening here. maybe it's a poltergeist - pretty sure some republican developer built the part of my town over an old indian burial ground and was too cheap to move the relocate the remains. Capitalist pigs!

 

[Spartanmack]

Yup when in doubt blame obama. We get it. ....8 years of doing it so when people are upset with a decision you as president makes. ...just blame obama. Don't do any of your own research. Don't stick up for your own decision. Don't add any countries you yourself think are dangerous or have contributed to killing americans. ...when in doubt...just do what Obama would have done. You just got done bashing everything obama is and had accomplished....so let's start of your presidency by just following his lead and blame him for your decision and fucked up execution. Yeah, makes perfect sense. ...said no one ever.

who is blaming Obama? it's setting the record straight and pointing out the hypocrisy of the left when they get outraged over something (anything) Trump does. The claim is the list is Muslim countries where Trump doesn't have business ties. But the truth is, the list came from the Obama Administration which identified these countries as dangerous countries with poor or no records on their citizens. That's not blaming Obama - it's pointing out the fact that his administration felt the same way but didn't do much if anything about it.

 

[mhughes0021]

who is blaming Obama? it's setting the record straight and pointing out the hypocrisy of the left when they get outraged over something (anything) Trump does. The claim is the list is Muslim countries where Trump doesn't have business ties. But the truth is, the list came from the Obama Administration which identified these countries as dangerous countries with poor or no records on their citizens. That's not blaming Obama - it's pointing out the fact that his administration felt the same way but didn't do much if anything about it.

8 years 0 attacks. Did nothing. ...suuuuuuure.

 

[biggunsbob]

so has the OP been completely debunked yet? I don't recall seeing anyone post this but the list of the 7 countries from which immigration has been temporarily halted has nothing to do with Trumps business interests. Turns out the list came from the Obama Administration. True, Obama didn't have the balls or maybe the audacity to halt immigration, but they identified these 7 countries as dangerous states with insufficient resources to provide information on citizens seeking asylum in the US. Obama did put visa restrictions on all 7 countries which is odd because you never heard a peep out of all the lefties losing their shit about the temporary ban.

Why do they make it so easy?


Is anyone else seeing really weird stuff happen on the site tonight? I don't know if it's my browser, PC or the site but I'm not seeing posts I submit when I refresh and threads aren't moving to the top to show they were the most recently updated threads. I'm also not seeing other people's posts until after I've refreshed several times and it's obvious they aren't new because of the sequence they appear or the timestamps. I've tried copying and re-pasting posts, deleting and re-entering, editing other posts in the thread but something very odd is happening here. maybe it's a poltergeist - pretty sure some republican developer built the part of my town over an old indian burial ground and was too cheap to move the relocate the remains. Capitalist pigs!

Yes it is happening at my house and on my devices also. Everything you listed. I have to refresh the page every time i post tonight.

I'm still having to reload pages today also.

 

[Spartanmack]

8 years 0 attacks. Did nothing. ...suuuuuuure.

that's already been disproved.

 

[KAWDUP]

Well at least the media finally gave up the hyperbole that it was a "Muslim ban". Religion isn't mentioned anywhere in the order. It is really the left that keeps making that leap. You can spout off all you want about who or who wasn't targeted, and why, but in the end, no matter what, this is a temporary action, and Spartanmack is absolutely correct that every time the left leaning media, including CNN and MSNBC turns up the hysteria to 11 over every single action, the more they will be just ignored.

 

[KAWDUP]

Good thing we have all you knowledgeable posters here on DSF to keep us informed of the truth of every action taken.

OMG Trump picked his nose - he is a fucking corrupt moron. It really does sound like that, and I don't even like the man.

 

[Michchamp]

Well at least the media finally gave up the hyperbole that it was a "Muslim ban". Religion isn't mentioned anywhere in the order. ...

Huh... you mean because they didn't openly admit to passing an unconstitutionally racist order (well, other than Giuliani openly admitting it) it must not be unconstitutionally racist?

Say you weren't a student at Trump University, were you?

 

[KAWDUP]

Huh... you mean because they didn't openly admit to passing an unconstitutionally racist order (well, other than Giuliani openly admitting it) it must not be unconstitutionally racist?

Say you weren't a student at Trump University, were you?

Same school as you, both High School and undergrad College, but what I posted is most certainly why it is not unconstitutional. Notice the news organizations, reputable ones at least, refer to it now as a "refugee ban from 7 majority-Muslim countries". . . . and as I said, before any constitutional challenge could be fully adjudicated, it will be over. It is temporary - in all the level 11 hysteria, that is always conveniently left out.

I am more sick over the way it was rolled out. The excuses were thin, but they can't really change that now can they? Also, there is no chance whatsoever that the administration will ever admit a mistake though - pretty much no different than most administrations since I have been alive. I am surprised at the complete freak-out - didn't we have a number of months to be prepared for exactly this kind of action? Doesn't make it right, I know, but c'mon, how is this really different, other than it is the other side doing stupid things now?

I know here is where you go for the "magnitude scale" argument about how this is light years and exponentially worse than anything ever before. In the grand scheme of things - it really isn't.

 

[deathroh]

Well at least the media finally gave up the hyperbole that it was a "Muslim ban". Religion isn't mentioned anywhere in the order. It is really the left that keeps making that leap....

Hmm, if only there was a way to determine if religion was mentioned in the order. Hey, I know! Actually read it!

"(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization."

And then Trump specified that Christians would be prioritized..

http://www1.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/ar...christians-will-be-given-priority-as-refugees

DAVID BRODY: ?Persecuted Christians, we?ve talked about this, the refugees overseas. The refugee program, or the refugee changes you?re looking to make. As it relates to persecuted Christians, do you see them as kind of a priority here??

PRESIDENT TRUMP: ?Yes.?

DAVID BRODY: ?You do??

PRESIDENT TRUMP: ?They?ve been horribly treated. Do you know if you were a Christian in Syria it was impossible, at least very tough to get into the United States? If you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost impossible and the reason that was so unfair, everybody was persecuted in all fairness, but they were chopping off the heads of everybody but more so the Christians. And I thought it was very, very unfair. So we are going to help them.?

 

[biggunsbob]

Didnt a republican-appointed judge just rule against Trump?

 

[Spartanmack]

yeah, it looked like the judge overstepped a bit there. will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[dubbsco]

Overstepped because he's republican?

Or did he "overstep" because he actually showed that Trump can't just make up laws and hope they stick without someone else noticing?

 

[Michchamp]

Didnt a republican-appointed judge just rule against Trump?

yep, a Bush Jr, appointee, not appointed by that "RINO" George HW Bush.

yeah, it looked like the judge overstepped a bit there. will be interesting to see how it plays out.

He didn't overstep anything. He ruled on a matter before him in the court. That's how a legal system is supposed to work in a country governed by laws and a constitution.

 

[KAWDUP]

Hmm, if only there was a way to determine if religion was mentioned in the order. Hey, I know! Actually read it!

"(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization."

And then Trump specified that Christians would be prioritized..

http://www1.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/ar...christians-will-be-given-priority-as-refugees

DAVID BRODY: ?Persecuted Christians, we?ve talked about this, the refugees overseas. The refugee program, or the refugee changes you?re looking to make. As it relates to persecuted Christians, do you see them as kind of a priority here??

PRESIDENT TRUMP: ?Yes.?

DAVID BRODY: ?You do??

PRESIDENT TRUMP: ?They?ve been horribly treated. Do you know if you were a Christian in Syria it was impossible, at least very tough to get into the United States? If you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost impossible and the reason that was so unfair, everybody was persecuted in all fairness, but they were chopping off the heads of everybody but more so the Christians. And I thought it was very, very unfair. So we are going to help them.?

Give me a break - I read it multiple times - if it wasn't obvious, I will spell it out for you - they didn't mention the Muslim religion and equating the order with a "Muslim ban".

 

[Spartanmack]

Overstepped because he's republican?

Or did he "overstep" because he actually showed that Trump can't just make up laws and hope they stick without someone else noticing?

yep, a Bush Jr, appointee, not appointed by that "RINO" George HW Bush.



He didn't overstep anything. He ruled on a matter before him in the court. That's how a legal system is supposed to work in a country governed by laws and a constitution.

maybe you should go back to law school and learn how it works. He didn't rule on the matter, the judge's order made no legal argument about the case. The judge simply declared the plaintiffs were likely to prevail on the merits. But that's not how it works, judges can't issue injunctions based on the likely outcome of a legal fight. The best indication of the judge's position came from the oral arguments where Robart said the order wasn't legal unless it was "based in fact as opposed to fiction" and he then pointed out the meaningless fact that most of you hang your hat on which is that no terrorist attacks were carried out by people from those 7 countries (except of course, for the 2 that were). As Ben Shaprio points out, this is legally ridiculous. Per Shapiro (who didn't go to a third tier law school)

It is not necessary for the executive branch to demonstrate that a policy it adopts prevents a harm that has already occurred. The executive branch has broad latitude in refugee and immigration policy for purposes of national security. The Department of Justice has rightly argued that judges do not have access to classified risk information as the president does; furthermore, foreign citizens abroad do not have Constitutional rights.

 

[Michchamp]

maybe you should go back to law school and learn how it works. He didn't rule on the matter, the judge's order made no legal argument about the case. The judge simply declared the plaintiffs were likely to prevail on the merits. But that's not how it works, judges can't issue injunctions based on the likely outcome of a legal fight. The best indication of the judge's position came from the oral arguments where Robart said the order wasn't legal unless it was "based in fact as opposed to fiction" and he then pointed out the meaningless fact that most of you hang your hat on which is that no terrorist attacks were carried out by people from those 7 countries (except of course, for the 2 that were). As Ben Shaprio points out, this is legally ridiculous. Per Shapiro (who didn't go to a third tier law school)

Here's what happened:
The State of Washington (among others) has sued Trump & the federal
government on the basis of his immigration order being unconstitutional (it is) and asked for injunctive relief (ie a temporary restraining order preventing the enforcement of Trump's order) because it is affecting people currently and on an ongoing basis, in addition to a full declaration that the order is illegal & unconstitutional.

the judge, after a hearing in which both sides argued, found for the plaintiffs (in this case the states of WA & MN) and enjoined portions of the order. ie the government can't enforce some key parts of Trumps order. The TRO is put in place to stop continuing harm while the full case is adjudicated.

this is all well within the authority of the district court judge. judges issue TROs ALL THE TIME. judged obviously issue TROs before the whole case is adjudicated because that's the whole fucking point of getting a TRO.